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Texas school district OKs pistols for staff
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As for my opinion, who are you to tell a person, given the amount of dangerous situations that have occured in schools, that they cannot have a gun to
defend themselves if they pass the requirements. If said teacher feels they should be able to pack so they can feel safe at their job, that should be
their right. If you don't like it, that shouldn't mean you have the right to deny them their rights.
This is a public school, therefore public ground. In said public place, a person should be entitled to their rights, including their right to bear arms. If you don't like them exercising the rights that they should already have, you should find a private institution that agrees with your viewpoint.
This is a public school, therefore public ground. In said public place, a person should be entitled to their rights, including their right to bear arms. If you don't like them exercising the rights that they should already have, you should find a private institution that agrees with your viewpoint.
Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
You don't think it would turn out better if nobody was armed, then?
Speaking as a Texan and someone who teaches afterschool programs, I would NOT want to go to a school where guns were allowed. I've seen staff squabbles before and arguments and I've seen fights between kids get out of hand.
No... no thank you. I think they should spend the money instead on teaching negotiation and nonviolent conflict resolution.
Originally posted by Byrd
No... no thank you. I think they should spend the money instead on teaching negotiation and nonviolent conflict resolution.
Tell me youre kidding. Please.
You're not serious right?
reply to post by Byrd
Teaching negotiation and nonviolent conflict resolution? You do realize Highschool students won't listen to that, right? It's more 'cool' to fix conflicts with fists.
And I'm not sure on how I feel about teachers carrying guns. I was in class last year when a teacher snapped and started throwing things at us. I don't want to know what would have happened if she had been carrying a gun.
On the other hand, if a kid did go crazy and decide to shoot up the school, the staff wouldn't be unarmed and have to wait for the police to get there while everyone was being shot.
Teaching negotiation and nonviolent conflict resolution? You do realize Highschool students won't listen to that, right? It's more 'cool' to fix conflicts with fists.
And I'm not sure on how I feel about teachers carrying guns. I was in class last year when a teacher snapped and started throwing things at us. I don't want to know what would have happened if she had been carrying a gun.
On the other hand, if a kid did go crazy and decide to shoot up the school, the staff wouldn't be unarmed and have to wait for the police to get there while everyone was being shot.
For those who are whining about the students possibly taking the guns away from teachers, why not require the teachers to use double or triple
retention holsters? If theyre good enough for cops to use, they should be good enough for teachers to use.
Really, gun shootings are not a big enough problem currently to justify every teacher in the country having a gun. I don't think I've heard of any
school shootings this year. The students that want to kill will find another way to do harm if they can't use guns (which would effectively happen
if teachers had guns in school). I'm not sure how effective homemade bombs are but explode one or more in a school cafe and you'll get just as many
deaths if not more compared to the kind of school shooting deaths we've seen in the past. Then the teacher's guns won't do much good.
You know also there are bound to be accidents involving teachers with these guns. I can see wrongful death suits being an issue, "I saw little Johnny going after Tommy with a spork. His life was in danger so I had to bust a cap." Teacher turned executor, would make for a good comic book series. Well kiddies, you thought Miss Crabtree was bad before? Well she's back, and this time she's taking names and fully loaded!
[edit on 16-8-2008 by ghaleon12]
You know also there are bound to be accidents involving teachers with these guns. I can see wrongful death suits being an issue, "I saw little Johnny going after Tommy with a spork. His life was in danger so I had to bust a cap." Teacher turned executor, would make for a good comic book series. Well kiddies, you thought Miss Crabtree was bad before? Well she's back, and this time she's taking names and fully loaded!
[edit on 16-8-2008 by ghaleon12]
Really I predict that nothing will come of this in TX, the likelihood of a school shooting occurring (or any event that will warrant the drawing of a
weapon) is incredibly small. On the other hand, if that event ever occurs it will be nice to have the victims be able to defend themselves.
Originally posted by ByrdI think they should spend the money instead on teaching negotiation and nonviolent conflict resolution.
Again, it is nice to see people speaking reason. I don't know why that guy thought I was being sarcastic on the front page because I see this as the ONLY viable option to combating violence. You disarm the person pointing the gun NOT by shooting his brains out, but by speaking diplomatically with them.
They will always go for this and there is not need to fear losing your life if you are speaking peace to them rather than pointing a gun back at their head. The worst that can happen by nonviolent conflict resolution is that they slap you in the face, but once they see you don't have a gun and are a loving person, you most assuredly will disarm them of their hate thereby disarming them of their weapon.
Speaking peace and love to them in an honest manner will always turn out with them handing over their gun and repenting of their misguided actions.
Love and harmony is the only way to defeat violence and they know this. YOU just need to know this
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
The number of teachers I've had who were drunks, drug addicts, manic-depressives..it boggles the mind to think what they would have done had they been packing heat.
I once had a teacher throw a desk at a kid sitting next to me - the chair missed my head by a foot, if that, and that was only because I fell sideways to get out of the way. Would that same teacher have opened up and killed me, and half the class, if he had a pistol on his hip?
Another teacher in a city high school slammed a kid's head into a locker while I watched. Instead of stitches, they would have been taking that kid to the morgue.
Then there was the guy who always had vodka in his iced tea and was three sheets to the wind before lunch EVERY DAY. Sometimes he'd get belligerent and start cussing people out and grumbling to himself. I'd love to see him fiddling with his gun at his desk...
How about the substitute whose husband left her or something and she went into a manic fit in the classroom, throwing books and slamming her hands down onto the desk and crying. I think it might have been a bit traumatic if she had whipped out a pistol and blown her brains all over the chalkboard.
I'm sure there were other incidents that I've since forgotten, but I think that's enough. The point is that guns in the classroom could have the opposite effect from the one intended - they might make students feel LESS secure, and that will almost certainly have a negative impact on their ability to learn.
I would not want my child attending a school where the teachers carry guns, if the teachers were not THOROUGHLY psychologically screened and tested to insure they were experts at keeping their temper.
It could be a wonderful idea if it's implemented correctly. I'd just hate to see it go wrong. Best laid plans and all that...
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
So wait, you aren't ok with the teacher of your child carrying a gun, but you are ok with them spending hours a day telling your child what is fact and what isn't. If the guy isn't fit to carry a gun, hes certainly not fit to be teaching our children.
I can always put a stop to them teaching something to my child that is not right. But once they screw up with a gun I can't bring them back to life.
I'm sorry but that comparison just doesn't fly with me.
Also if you read my posts I said that I carry a handgun. That doesn't mean I should be carrying it to work. No one would feel any safer knowing I had a gun there becasue when it comes down to it, no one really knows anyone completely. Just because someone can carry a gun doesn't automatically make them a moral, good, or stable person. Just because someone doesn't have a DWI on their record doesn't mean they have never driven intoxicated, so just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you aren't a freaking loon that might snap at any moment and go on a shooting spree.
Another thing, some of you people find it hard to argue your point without being rude and insulting to whomever disagrees with your point of view. That type of arrogant bullying behavior is generally a sign of low self esteem and insecurity. Typing insults in a forum does not impress most people and generally turns people off to your point of view, as well as make you look like a self centered jerk. How about we all discuss this in a civil manner and show some respect to each other? I will not feed any trolls. Not referring to you Grimreaper.
I can't believe no one has mentioned this as of yet, but how has every school shooting in the past decade ended?
Face it, these kids are suicidal. If they want to start capping students left and right the fear of death is certainly not going to stop them. In fact, it would probably just give the shooter a reason to kill the teacher first.
Secondly, teachers are (sadly) often hired on a NEED basis. There is no way teachers go through the same background checks and psychological evaluations as trained officers.
When I was in high school, one of my teachers repeatedly blackmailed and had sex with my 16 year old friend. The teacher was eventually prosecuted and it was discovered that he had done the same thing the two years he taught there before, the girls even testified against him.
Another one of my teachers used to invite us over to her house to party, where she would serve us (sixteen year olds) alcohol. She developed a relationship with one of my friends, and used to do coc aine with him on a regular basis. Sadly, that friend had a serious drug problem, and she only exacerbated it by supplying him with her husband's prescription meds.
If you honestly think putting more guns in schools is a good idea just because the teachers have them, then you're obviously not thinking about your children's safety.
Face it, these kids are suicidal. If they want to start capping students left and right the fear of death is certainly not going to stop them. In fact, it would probably just give the shooter a reason to kill the teacher first.
Secondly, teachers are (sadly) often hired on a NEED basis. There is no way teachers go through the same background checks and psychological evaluations as trained officers.
When I was in high school, one of my teachers repeatedly blackmailed and had sex with my 16 year old friend. The teacher was eventually prosecuted and it was discovered that he had done the same thing the two years he taught there before, the girls even testified against him.
Another one of my teachers used to invite us over to her house to party, where she would serve us (sixteen year olds) alcohol. She developed a relationship with one of my friends, and used to do coc aine with him on a regular basis. Sadly, that friend had a serious drug problem, and she only exacerbated it by supplying him with her husband's prescription meds.
If you honestly think putting more guns in schools is a good idea just because the teachers have them, then you're obviously not thinking about your children's safety.
reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
Glad you weren't referring to me as I meant no disrespect. I just feel like information is just as dangerous as a loaded gun. What you teach a child is just like a gun. You can use it to better their lives, or cripple them. If I cannot trust a person with the power of a weapon, I cannot trust them with the power of knowledge and information.
The information they are feeding our children can be just as dangerous or even more dangerous than any man with a gun. A childs mind is too fragile to be left with somebody not mentally fit enough to handle a tool.
Glad you weren't referring to me as I meant no disrespect. I just feel like information is just as dangerous as a loaded gun. What you teach a child is just like a gun. You can use it to better their lives, or cripple them. If I cannot trust a person with the power of a weapon, I cannot trust them with the power of knowledge and information.
The information they are feeding our children can be just as dangerous or even more dangerous than any man with a gun. A childs mind is too fragile to be left with somebody not mentally fit enough to handle a tool.
Originally posted by enoughalready
Again, it is nice to see people speaking reason. I don't know why that guy thought I was being sarcastic on the front page because I see this as the ONLY viable option to combating violence. You disarm the person pointing the gun NOT by shooting his brains out, but by speaking diplomatically with them.
They will always go for this and there is not need to fear losing your life if you are speaking peace to them rather than pointing a gun back at their head. The worst that can happen by nonviolent conflict resolution is that they slap you in the face, but once they see you don't have a gun and are a loving person, you most assuredly will disarm them of their hate thereby disarming them of their weapon.
Speaking peace and love to them in an honest manner will always turn out with them handing over their gun and repenting of their misguided actions.
Love and harmony is the only way to defeat violence and they know this. YOU just need to know this
Then you have obviously never faced a psychopath or a lunatic. I'm sorry to break this to you, but one day this attitude will get you killed. If you try to disarm this guy with a gun by talking to him, he may kill you first just for rubbing him the wrong way. He is mentally unstable, hence the reason hes about to shoot up a place.
You need to come out from where ever you are living and get some real world experience quick. Ive personally met people who have killed innocent people and laughed about it. These people will not respond to talk. They will not respond to therapy. They are not misguided. They are cold blooded killers, or serverly unstable. Drugs may help the latter in a controlled environment, but as for the former...there is no cure.
Studies have shown that if you try to do the "peace and love/this action hurts other people" with a psychopath, they are MORE likely to commit that crime again.
I hate to crush this world view you have of peace and love, but it just doesn't always work. Some people simply don't care, they want to see people die. There is no "heart" to find.
Peace is great for those with a good heart gone astray. You haven't met true ugliness, and your perspective shows it.
reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
Then you are not a supporter of gun rights. I think every kid at age 12 needs to be given a pistol, AR and a shotgun.
Then you are not a supporter of gun rights. I think every kid at age 12 needs to be given a pistol, AR and a shotgun.
Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
Then you are not a supporter of gun rights. I think every kid at age 12 needs to be given a pistol, AR and a shotgun.
Well I can hardly argue with that point.
I am assuming that you are being sarcastic.
I absolutely hate this mentality.
What so now it's unsafe to have your children taught by un armed teachers? I mean this kind of bull# just instills fear in parents and all of us alike.
Seems like in america the solution to danger is to just make sure everyone is armed 24/7.
This is just beyond stupid.
I just have a hard time beleiving that school staff now need to be armed... I mean where does it stop?
Sorry texas but there is no need for school staff to have guns.
What so now it's unsafe to have your children taught by un armed teachers? I mean this kind of bull# just instills fear in parents and all of us alike.
Seems like in america the solution to danger is to just make sure everyone is armed 24/7.
This is just beyond stupid.
I just have a hard time beleiving that school staff now need to be armed... I mean where does it stop?
Sorry texas but there is no need for school staff to have guns.
reply to post by blayze
Correction: There is no reason why teachers SHOULD NOT be able to carry.
None whatsoever.
Correction: There is no reason why teachers SHOULD NOT be able to carry.
None whatsoever.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Shall not be infringed
Shall not be infringed
reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
The point is, who are we to say who cant have a gun and where they can't have it. The school is public property. These teacher have a right to carry. Why can't they carry to work with they are licensed and want to? Because they might snap? Lets face it, anyone can snap, does that mean nobody should have a gun? No. Some guy working double overtime on construction shouldn't be allowed to own a gun because he is faced with a highly stressful life and might snap, thus shooting up a shopping mall?
Lets put it this way, if the teacher decides to shoot up a school, and they have a gun, they are going to do it. Whether or not they have a concealed carry, they will do it.
The point is, who are we to say who cant have a gun and where they can't have it. The school is public property. These teacher have a right to carry. Why can't they carry to work with they are licensed and want to? Because they might snap? Lets face it, anyone can snap, does that mean nobody should have a gun? No. Some guy working double overtime on construction shouldn't be allowed to own a gun because he is faced with a highly stressful life and might snap, thus shooting up a shopping mall?
Lets put it this way, if the teacher decides to shoot up a school, and they have a gun, they are going to do it. Whether or not they have a concealed carry, they will do it.
Having loaded weapons around children is always a good idea. I for one salute Texas for continuing to lead the way in enlightened and intelligent
decisions that are an example for the rest of the country. Hopefully, next kids will be locked in cages until they're 18 since obviously they're so
violent that adults need to pack guns around them.
Wasn't school supposed to be about education and not a platform and battleground for retarded political issues? Oh yeah... this is America.
I'm extremely pro-gun rights but this is taking it way too far. That this has actually become a reality that teachers can carry loaded weapons into a classroom with children or teenagers is so insanely stupid, I am just going to laugh when this inevitably #s up and some kid gets shot in the head. But then we'll just blame it on terrorism or heavy metal. At least kids know where they can steal guns from if they can't pick one up on the black market.
[edit on 17-8-2008 by CuriousSkeptic]
Wasn't school supposed to be about education and not a platform and battleground for retarded political issues? Oh yeah... this is America.
I'm extremely pro-gun rights but this is taking it way too far. That this has actually become a reality that teachers can carry loaded weapons into a classroom with children or teenagers is so insanely stupid, I am just going to laugh when this inevitably #s up and some kid gets shot in the head. But then we'll just blame it on terrorism or heavy metal. At least kids know where they can steal guns from if they can't pick one up on the black market.
[edit on 17-8-2008 by CuriousSkeptic]
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