Puzzle #7 - little circles in squares

This is a hard one. I keep staring at the screen and everything blurs together.


Perhaps we are looking wrong? Is it possible that this is the puzzle the "Square the Circle" thread was getting bumped prior to this puzzle being released.

This is the alphabet i am trying to use.
What say you?

reply to post by BannedForLife


I had something very similar to you but i some how had 62 different positions, not 52. But i couldn't make any sense of it so maybe you are on to something?

reply to post by BannedForLife


Reverse the bottom row (Z to A).

reply to post by BannedForLife


Also, watch out for the 'exactly in center' glyph -- you've got it twice in your alphabet: in the top row at position 'S' or 'T' (hard to tell with the JPEG jaggies), and in the bottom row at position 'T'. If you reverse the bottom row, they'll be in very different alphabet locations.

That glyph appears 4 times in the message; I'm thinking it should be included in the 'top-right to bottom-left' sequence, because that would make it so that in the other diagonal sequence, only the first three and last one glyphs are used.

0,3 0,4 15,6 0,13 15,1 15,5 0,1

1,1 0,15 10,10 6,6 4,4 0,0 9,9 13,13

5,5 1,1 15,11 15,9 0,5 9,9 3,3 15,11 14,14 0,14

6,6 9,9 15,3 6,6 1,14 0,13 15,11 15,11

0,13 0,6 15,1 0,13 0,4 0,1 0,6 0,10 3,13 3,3

15,1 3,3 4,4 0,6 11,11 0,9 0,9

0,9 8,8 8,8 15,11 13,13 5,5 15,9 0,3 1,1 0,15

15,3 15,0 4,4 15,0 0,15 13,13 13,13


15,1 15,3 15,4 14,14 13,13 11,11 0,15 1,14 3,13


This is the sequence that I come up with by counting the box line as 0 and counting from there to the circle start and first # is counting to the left - right and second # is counting bottom - up. The only dead centers that I come up with are the 8,8. The rotation I get, still doesn't make sense yet. the 0,3 would rotate to 13,0 15,13 or 3,15

edit to 15,3 (thanks)


[edit on 15-8-2008 by oregongal]

reply to post by oregongal


The three group of boxes below must indicate the pattern, but I can't figure it out. If each one represents ABC, then you'd think you could draw this out rather easily. I've been keying in on the first word. Those glyphs only move along one axis (up/down) either the left or right side. I'm looking for a sequence that would allow for the creation of such a word. Based on the block information below, I assume that the first letter is either D or E.

I finally sat down and finished mapping these things out. Here's what I'm working with. The numbers across the top and down the left side correspond to oregongal's post above, and the labels A01-D13 correspond to Ian McLean's graphics in this post.

I'm using A-X, a-x to label the glyphs because I think it's easier to work with, but I'm hoping this will let us all talk to each other without too much confusion (or only confusion over the puzzle, not over which glyph is which!)



The line at the bottom is what the text is in my letter system:

cdFkBEb XmQTVaRO UXJHeRWJNl TRCTnkJJ kfBkdbfioW BWVfphh hSSJOUHcXm CAVAmOO


note to oregongal: I think you have a typo -- the first letter in the last word should be 15,3 not 13, 5

EDIT: to see if larger graphic will work
EDIT: because it didn't
EDIT: to fix typos

[edit on 15-8-2008 by americandingbat]

[edit on 15-8-2008 by americandingbat]

[edit on 15-8-2008 by americandingbat]

reply to post by BannedForLife


You might be on to something. You had letter T for both centered circle symbol. I wish they would not use antialiasing.

By changing the 15,n's to this
15,0 - 0,0
15,1 - 1,1
15,3 - 3,3
15,4 - 4,4
15,5 - 5,5
15,6 - 6,6
15,9 - 9,9
15,11 - 11,11

I get a bottom pattern of

LNP XWV KMO

still not sure I should though???

I assume you're doing this because of the "rotation of glyphs builds meaning" hint? I don't think we're up to that yet. Here's how I understand the hint:

IT WILL BE OBSERVED THAT A CYCLE OF ADDITIVE COLORS IS IMPORTANT AS WELL AS THAT OF SIMPLE DOTS.

Puzzle One (which was based on a pattern of colors) and Puzzle Two (simple white dots)

IT WILL BE OBSERVED THAT SIXTEEN IS IMPORTANT IN NUMBER AND COLOR, BUT THAT CAESAR SEQUENTIALLY SHIFTS HIS COLORS.

Puzzle Three (hexadecimal translation) and Puzzle Four (green values and a constantly shifting Caesar cipher)

IT WILL BE OBSERVED THAT THE CYCLE OF TRIANGLES BUILDS WORDS AND SYMBOLS ARE DIAGONALLY TRUE.

Puzzle Five (the cycle of triangles) and Puzzle Six (diagonally true? I missed this one)
Which leaves us only at:

IT WILL BE OBSERVED THAT CAESAR SLIDES ACROSS ON EACH, AND JUXTAPOSITION IS NOT WHAT IT SEEMS.

reply to post by americandingbat


The puzzle #6 was solved by rotating and flipping the glyphs.

"IT WILL BE OBSERVED, TWICE, THAT THE ROTATION OF GLYPHS BUILD MEANING"

Observed twice. Puzzle #6 is once. So I think this is the second time we use rotation.

I've been thinking about the "key" at the bottom. What if each isn't saying "ABC ABC ABC" but AAA BBB CCC?

The clue about using the Caesar cipher could apply to this puzzle since the circles are shown to be shifting upwards and downwards.

What's throwing me off is the pattern. The first set goes straight up, the second set goes diagonally down left and the third set goes diagonally down right, each using a circle starting in a different position (first group, right of circle one is part of right wall; second group, right and top of circle one touch right and top wall; third group, left and top of circle one are part of top and left wall).

I have noticed that when I rotated some symbols, they matched other symbols, antialiasing and all, pixel by pixel. I dont know if this is something yet.

The keys at the bottom could be "valid" symbols. Those that do not match the keys must be rotated, perhaps?

The last set of keys is the only one with a symbol overlapping the border, so perhaps that shows the last three symbols that is not rotated anywhere.

I have noticed that when I used this method, there are 23 distinct symbols with 3 left over.

16 going from right bottom up, then 7 from upper right corner to center, leaving 23 symbols. 3 symbols are added as the last 3 keys.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Deaf Alien]

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Deaf Alien]

Interesting idea Deaf Alien, you could be on to something. I'll work on this as well and see what turns up.

I have hit a snag... the first 2 symbols in the first word on the second row match perfectly when rotated. However, what word do you know that starts with two same letters? Except possibly LLAMA.

Oh and let's not forget Aardvark

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Deaf Alien]

What if the full word also needs to be rotated? Perhaps your word doesn't start with the two same symbols but ends with them.

also, are you rotating glyph by glyph, word by word or row by row?

[edit on 15-8-2008 by sos37]

reply to post by sos37


That word ends with two same symbols

Originally posted by sos37
also, are you rotating glyph by glyph, word by word or row by row?

When a symbol doesn't follow the pattern of the keys, I rotate it 180 degrees.
First 3 keys, the circle goes up from pixel 1 to pixel 15. Second set, it goes from top right to center from pixel 1 to pixel 7.
The last set has the circle overlapping the border which is pixel 0 so it goes from upper left corner from pixel 0 to 2.

What about flipping them on the vertical axis instead of rotating? I've done some work on that and it looks promising. On word 1, if you flip letters 1, 2, 4 and 7, they fit in with the scheme of key at the bottom.

I just don't have time to spend, but I'm watching with interest. Sorry I can't help more.

You guys are doing great! Keep it up!