FAA Release of Radar Data Signals a new 'Openness Policy' on UFOs

Originally posted by dariousg
Though I am tempted to lean towards this point of view on the subject I must bring up this question. As asked in the following post the object was reported as being stationary. Then, in a split second, zips off at 2,100 mph. Do we really have something that can virtually jump to those speeds that quickly from virtually a stationary position? Do we have something that can hover at that size?

According to the official story we don't. But the thing is when we do get such craft on radar they all display this amazing performance you talk about. This performance cannot be achieved by conventional propulsion methods period. Such maneuvers would instantly kill the pilot let alone the craft itself, as it would get torn apart by the forces of the near instant acceleration and such.

So this only leaves some sort of other propulsion method. If you ask me those craft use advanced Zero-Point Gravity propulsion systems. Zero-Point Gravity propulsion would explain the extreme maneuvers that UFO's display. The craft creates a zero gravity field around itself so it basicly has no resistance and can accelerate nearly instantly and turn on a dime. This also explains why the pilots don't kill themselfes while performing these maneuvers. They don't experience any G-forces due to the gravity field. You don't even have to wear seatbelts aboard these craft.

The gravity field also explain why no sonic boom is heard during the transition to supersonic flight. Ever seen UFO footage where the UFO seems to be making erratic movements? This gravity field around the craft can interfere with Earth's gravity which makes the craft somewhat unstable.

Also, just how big is the SR71? Is it big enough to block out the entire view of the sky for a person on the ground? This is how it was reported there so I just want to bring it up as well.

Witnesses reported that the craft made no noise, only a slight hum if I remember correctly. An SR71 has jet engines which make a lot of noise so I don't think it was that plane. And doesn't an SR71 fly at extreme altitudes close to ceiling so to speak?

There's a pretty decent writeup of this entire ordeal over at www.earthfiles.com.
There are several parts to the story and it walks you through the methodology involved in how the investigators determined what they had as well as a very detailed analysis of how radar works, how it tracks aircraft, transponders and skin/paint returns etc.
It's a good read and includes graphics that are neat to look at.

Popular Mechanics has run articles discussing some of the "Skunk Works" technologies. One I remember, because I was thinking about the idea before I heard it -- was the ionization of plasma around the skin of an Aircraft. Positive charge at the front, draws the plasma quickly to the rear which is negatively charged to "slip-stream" the surface. Kind of like controlling a supersonic shockwave, by moving the air around it. So the drag on the plan is probably nearly nill, as the air itself is used.

That would explain an advanced craft glowing.

I'd thought for a long time that concentrated laser light, can be used to "divert" gravity, and this was recently proven at some University (can't remember). I'm not a fan of their theory because I have my own -- but the short story here, is that we don't need to look at really esoteric technologies, to perhaps have simpler ways to divert acceleration.

Going 1800 MPH or faster could be a RamJet or ScramJet. I could think of a few other engines, that might be nuclear or use a spinning plasma in a donut of super-conducting material... but I've got ideas of my own...

Anyway, the other declassified planes of our military, were orders of magnitude faster than the planes of the time while they were secret. I'm absolutely sure we have some UFOs and most of those are probably advanced craft. Doesn't prove or disprove alien aircraft, but there is plenty I would expect from declassified Radar logs -- and this would be secret because they don't want the Russians or Chinese getting the information.

Plus, I'm sure that there are people in our own government who would sell the technology to anyone who could cover their Greens Fees. The secrecy that seems silly to us, is probably as much about interdepartmental distrust and rivalry, as it is about national security. Our politicians, should be wearing decals of their sponsors it has gotten so bad.

So, if 1800 MPH aircraft are declassified now -- then it's a sure bet Russia and China already know about the capabilities, and that the Skunkworks probably has something faster.

Just wanted to offer a rational alternative to little green men. Not that there aren't little green men -- but if they are 10,000 or a million years ahead of us, they probably are tuning anti-matter gates to just pop into other locations in the Universe by manipulating higher dimensions of matter. I'd think spacecraft would be Passé for them.

Ted Roe's (Executive Director, NARCAP.org) take on this article is probably worth mentioning.

It's the fifth comment if you scroll down the page. He explains there is no new open-ness in FAA, it's the author of the original article who think there is.

on raw data:

The unusual nature of the Stephensville/Crawford radar return, as any radar tech knows, can be explained by a common fault in radar detection. Our folks have looked this over and are satisfied that is the explanation for the shift in the track. The actual track proceeded at 49mph towards the Crawford ranch but the data set requested ran out so we have no idea what that return did. It was likely a helicopter and it may have been related to ranch security and was not documented as a violation of restricted airspace.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by inthemistandfog]

I am just reminding the posters that stated this may be somekind of 'Extra Terestrial' craft that there is no evidence whatsoever to suppoprt that claim.

From the first page I've already seen this kind of claims being made even there is ZERO EVIDENCE and ZERO PROOF to support such claims.

It is quite a step to jump to conclusions when there is NO EVIDENCE to point out to the existence of ETs visiting us let alone connecting this event to such possibility.

And if anyone starts to spout off studies being made with 'evidence' that points to the existence of E.Ts, all these studies on circumstantial evidence on ufos is still NOT proof of ETs. They are all nothing more than a vast collection of facts & figures that at best COULD SUGGEST (given the right spin), NOT PROVE, the existence of ETs.

it's the equivalent of religion -

Religious nut: "I can't explain something, so it must be god!"

"This is nothing like I've seen before so this must be god!"

"This is something extraordinary so this must be god"

In this case just replace god with E.Ts and you got yourself people making up wild claims.

Military jets were sighted. Even the military admits of having of their presence theere. Then it is much much much more plausible (in Fact I AM SURE) that this event has more something to do with experimental military aircraft and they were there to make sure everything goes as smooth as possible. The US military is the most advanced in technological achievement and we are much at the top right now.

So where is the evidence that links this to ETs? The ONLY possibility is this was the military testing out their new toy.

To make a conclusion based on hearsay and speculation is quite a step.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]

reply to post by AntisepticSkeptic


Chrissakes, where's the EVIDENCE that the craft in the Stephenville-Dublin area last January 8, as EVIDENCED by the radar report, is of even the most secret human-mundane technology? What the hell do we have that can travel at 2100 mph without a sonic boom and make right angle turns on a dime at the same speed?

I too believe this is an orchestrated part of the disclosure process. And when I first heard Edgar MItchell on Karrang Radio with his startling admissions I couldn't help wondering if he had suddenly been given some sort of 'go ahead' to make these disclosures.

Originally posted by Lightworth
reply to post by AntisepticSkeptic

 

Chrissakes, where's the EVIDENCE that the craft in the Stephenville-Dublin area last January 8, as EVIDENCED by the radar report, is of even the most secret human-mundane technology? What the hell do we have that can travel at 2100 mph without a sonic boom and make right angle turns on a dime at the same speed?

ALL of the so-called "best" UFO evidence i've ever known is nothing
more than just unexplainable cases. this much IS proven and can be
agreed as fact, but to take the next step and conclude that because
you can't explain it yourself, it must be ETs is nothing more than
feeding the ego.

Religious people explain the unexplainable as god.
Ufologists explain the unexplainable as ufos. Philosophers and
logicians don't try to explain the unexplainable because they are able
to admit that they don't know. Anything beyond is
speculation/theorizing.

Weird, unexplainable events centuries ago, magic was the explanation. Then god became the next explanation. Now, aliens are the explanation. All we can conclude is just that - that there are weird events that we can't explain. Until there is proof, we can only speculate with OCCAM'S RAZOR in mind.

What I'm getting to is the military had in numerous times in the past have experimented with top secret aircraft and even after MANY years the secret has been kept.

And in occam's razor the most palusible explanation for this case is from available information is experimental military craft.

So no, there is definitely no plausible connection to the connection to E.Ts because there is no concrete verifiable evidence to proof the existence of E.Ts in the forst place. The military exist. That's a fact. They have the resources, the funding and the technology to make this a plausible explanation. They experimented with highly advanced technologies that would make the layman people think this is out of the world.

So to make assumptions that this craft was of ET origin without the proof of the existence of ETs in the first place is quite a leap.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]

reply to post by AntisepticSkeptic


I think you enjoy being a skeptic. You don't have the answers to the unresolved cases. Just admit it and keep quite then.

Originally posted by AntisepticSkeptic

it's the equivalent of religion -

The US military is the most advanced in technological achievement and we are much at the top right now.

It is indeed the equivalent of religion. Like Catholicism, or Judaism or any one the other myriad "isms"; it is as re-assuring, as all-consuming, and as potentially dangerous to rational thought.

It's called "Patriotism".



May we, therfore, assume that you have PROOF to support your rather grand claim regarding US technological achievement?


You do hold yourself to at least the same standard you seem to be demanding?

Originally posted by AntisepticSkeptic
To make a conclusion based on hearsay and speculation is quite a step.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]

Yes, it is quite a step...And one should be careful about where one steps.

You never know just what you might be stepping into.

We've also been discussing this issue in more detail here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The MUFON report is pretty damning if nothing else.. You can read all my thoughts in my lengthy posts on this subject.. No need to reiterate everything here since its already posted..

But as far as I have seen this "openness policy" is false.. The MUFON report on the Stephenville radar data is testament to this. I'll believe a "new openness policy" when someone other than the FAA doesn't make themselves sound like complete idiots by coming up with excuse after excuse, lie after lie, and continuing to do so..

I have seen no physical document, and no proof otherwise to suggest that this new shift in policy regarding UFO's is anything other than a HOAX. If the government and the military honestly had a new openness policy towards the UFO phenomenon, we wouldn't continue to see the same stonewalling and lying about information that we saw in this very MUFON report on the radar data.

And apart from the lies about all the military radar data tapes being "written over" there is significant evidence to suggest the military KNEW what was going on. AWACS and a small formation of F-16's flew illegally into civilian airspace. They flew so close to transitting aircraft coming and going from DFW that they were creating a safety risk by them simply being in that airspace illegally. The aircraft strayed HUNDREDS of miles offcoarse.. There are dozens of military radar stations surrounding this geographical area, and we are supposed to believe that they have nothing pertinent to submit from the night in question because none of them have the data? RIDICIULOUS!

And other than the military stonewalling MUFON's FOIA requests, the military lied about this matter from the VERY BEGINNING of this entire news story back in January.. They initially said that no military aircraft were in the area. Military officials later had to regroup and come up with some kind of explanation since the FAA data obviously proves that military aircraft were in this area on the night in question.. They lied, they lied about not having any radar data to submit to the report, and the simple fact that all of the military's responses to the FOIA requests are exactly the same is proof of a military-wide UFO coverup that will continue.

As many of you know, the British recently declassified and released thousands of UFO documents to the public.. And this alone is proof that ANY government would want to keep this information covered up. So, if nothing else it is proof of concept. And this just goes to show that secrecy continues to be the name of the game for our government with regards to the UFO phenomenon..

-ChriS

[edit on 15-8-2008 by BlasteR]

reply to post by franspeakfree


We are so lucky to be alive and be living the history, the history that would start a new era in which humans and extraterrestrial life would "began" contact. after so many years we are finally the lucky ones to start watching how everything unfolds. even though we all new from before but the government did not wanted to admitted.

Yes!! we should feel very lucky to be alive!!!

Originally posted by AntisepticSkeptic
What I'm getting to is the military had in numerous times in the past have experimented with top secret aircraft and even after MANY years the secret has been kept.

So no, there is definitely no plausible connection to the connection to E.Ts because there is no concrete verifiable evidence to proof the existence of E.Ts in the forst place. The military exist. That's a fact. They have the resources, the funding and the technology to make this a plausible explanation. They experimented with highly advanced technologies that would make the layman people think this is out of the world.

While I mostly agree with your arguments one thing is strange. These sort of craft were seen and tracked by radar decades ago. Following your logic the military already had very advanced craft back then. But after all these decades they are still not using them openly. That doesn't make any sense. So caracterising every UFO as a secret craft is to easy in my opinion.

Originally posted by BlasteR

...... this new shift in policy regarding UFO's is anything other than a HOAX. If the government and the military honestly had a new openness policy towards the UFO phenomenon................

........the same is proof of a military-wide UFO coverup that will continue.

As many of you know, the British recently declassified and released thousands of UFO documents to the public.. And this alone is proof that ANY government would want to keep this information covered up. So, if nothing else it is proof of concept. And this just goes to show that secrecy continues to be the name of the game for our government with regards to the UFO phenomenon..

-ChriS

[edit on 15-8-2008 by BlasteR]

That's just it... They're UFOs. Unidentified Flying Objects. You say the word 'phenomenon' like it was some kind of a scary spooky conspiracy out of the X-files.

The military was there at the same time this 'UFO' was there. They themselves admitted they were there. What's the problem here? What more do you people want? Any evidence that 'aliens' were there? NO.

Any press statements from the Galactic Federation League or whatever the hell these aliens supposed to call themselves were made? NO.

All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best. |And that points this incident to the military plain and simple. Was there a coverup? Yes and I agree with you on that. Secrecy is crucial in mantaining a technical advantage. You don't need a terrorist as a potential threat if the secrecy of the US military is at stake, just throw some anti-establishment bigmouth conspiracy theorists and bigmouth UFOlogists and if they somehow get their hands on these government secrets, it would endanger the ENTIRE population that has nothing to do with their delusional and paranoid quest for 'disclosure' and their own money spinning agendas .

I'm really glad in WW2 these sort of people didn't work with the military. We would definitely have lost the war and I would be writing this post in german or japanese if that was the case.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]

the very fact that there was no sonic boom, may point to the possibility of the air being ionized around the craft or that the craft travels through matter without disturbing it like the theoretical neutrino particle. very interesting indeed. .If you read the article it says that it was within ten miles of president bushes Crawford ranch. would not surprise me at all if air force one is a public front and bush has his own UFO.....(lucky bastard)....It is surprising that it was so close to bushes Crawford ranch and yet the release of the information wasn't a national security risk!? By the way, i read an article in science daily about a scientist who created a plasma propelled flying saucer. could be the same technology since it also ionizes the air around the craft here is the link to the article www.sciencedaily.com...

reply to post by AntisepticSkeptic



Have you read the MUFON report? I am amazed that you can possibly entertain the notion that this is some sort of military technology.

If and I use the word lightly this is some form of military technology, then without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that this is back engineered technology or acquired technology from offworld sources.

For an object to travel at 2100mph and then stop would cause the occupants to splatter on the windshield (fact), adding to this do we have any technology then can travel that fast and not make a noise? and whilst I am on a role, do we have any type of machinery that doesn't make a sound when it moves? Also do we have anything that large that can be stored in a hanger without being seen?

Theres to much evidence that has come out about the Stephenville Sighting to suggest its military. I believe this is the shape of things to come, one day we will wake up and they will be in the sky.

Exciting times lay ahead, more and more people waking up everyday. I feel sorry for the skeptics. How will they deal with it?

2100 mph is not that a great speed. It's approximately 2.75 Mach. MiG 25 and MiG 31 fighter planes can go over 2.5 Mach, and then there are the secret (or not so secret) military projects.

I highly doubt this was a case of UFO.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
For an object to travel at 2100mph and then stop would cause the occupants to splatter on the windshield (fact), adding to this do we have any technology then can travel that fast and not make a noise? and whilst I am on a role, do we have any type of machinery that doesn't make a sound when it moves? Also do we have anything that large that can be stored in a hanger without being seen?

The technology that I feel is being used by these craft is Zero Point gravity propulsion. For more information please see my post above. But indeed the question is if these craft are US military, where did they get this technology? And why aren't they using it openly today after all these decades.

I feel sorry for the skeptics. How will they deal with it?

well the "good" skeptics on these boards just want the truth like everybody else. So I think they would be just as happy as the believers if disclosure happens.

But the skeptics that just don't want to believe, and do everything in their power to laugh and ridicule the subject will have a hard time dealing with it once/if it happens. they will most likely never post on ATS again.

Originally posted by masterp
MiG 25 and MiG 31 fighter planes can go over 2.5 Mach, and then there are the secret (or not so secret) military projects.

But can MiG 25 and MiG 31 fighter planes remain stationary in the air, turn on a dime and emit no noise when flying? Also can they go supersonic without creating a sonic boom?

I highly doubt this was a case of UFO.

It's a fact that this is a case of a UFO, so your comment above is off. It remains an Unidentified Flying Object to this day.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
reply to post by AntisepticSkeptic

 

If and I use the word lightly this is some form of military technology, then without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that this is back engineered technology or acquired technology from offworld sources.

That is such a wild claim. Quite a leap. But that's only in your mind so go for it.

I'm sorry but where is the evidence to prove your outrageous claims that this was engineered alien technology? Off world? Where? You can't even prove the existence of aliens visiting us let alone the military back engineering anything from these imagined ETs.

Show me the evidence that this is back engineered alien technology? Was there an inscription on the spaceship stating that it was "Made in Zeta Reticuli"?
*snicker*

Where's the evidence that points this was of alien origin. Show me. Where?

People like you always underestimate the human ability to create and invent wonderful and revolutionary technologies. If people were to use the computing technology that we use today 50 years ago (video, CGI, supercomputers, the ability to compute numbers at phenomenal speed they would swear this is some kind of alien technology.

Then again I feel sorry for the people who use the Internet and the computer to be so ignorant of the science behind it that they resort to the confabulation that these technologies as being backengineered from ET technology. Sounds like the X-Files. ooooohhh spooky....

*hums the X-Files music*

[edit on 15-8-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]