NASA Historian: Advanced Alien Cultures May Be Sentient Machines In A Post Biological Universe!

I think we're already going down this route of turning into mechanical entities rather than biological ones.
Look how much we rely on technology already. We have mobile phones, computers , cars and all the other wonderous gadgets.
We have to upgrade as soon as theres something newer or better than the old one , like updating your mobile phone, so why aren't our bodies treated the same.
We buy a new phone or computer if our old one breaks down so why can't we do that with our bodies?.
We can fix any technology but we can't fix flaws in our bodies or replace biological parts as it's too difficult.
Sure we can replace parts but what do we replace them with the majority of the time, we replace them with mechanical ones.
Its only recently we have discovered that we can replace parts with biological parts but the chance of rejection is huge. If we had a mechanical body and we lose a limb we could go to a nearby tech shop and buy a new one and slot in on.
So why not 'upgrade'
There was that guy that added technology to his arm, can't remember his name though.
So only time will tell what we become, but unless theres a huge HUGE leap in technology that allows our conscious mind to be transferred to a computer safely we'll never see it.
Mind you if it happened that fast would you want to?
I for one can't see a future (near future) where machines try to kill us biologicals , why would they ? we can do that well enough and we've become almost machinely efficient at it .
As for aliens , maybe they have gone through the same development stages that we have, I can just imagine all the alien teenagers dying to get their mitts on the latest galaxy class mobile comms unit, with 5million megapixel holocam.
Necessaty is the mother of invention, we when we can't go any further on this world we'll try to transfer to the next and that would mean a leap in technology and hence another need for more advanced tech, look at man's history , full of invention to better the situation he's in. WE take technology for granted, but if you take it all away what are left with? Our minds , and that will need to be upgraded to make room for more memories and experiences and the pyschic powers we'll gain, yay.....
Now I must depart as I need a biobreak, I'd like to see an android do that..... unless we dumps hydralic fluid all over the floor. messy

Originally posted by guerande
BTW , are u living really in Europe? Italy, if I'm right ? USA being sleeping ...

USA sleeping? It's 5 in the morning there, for crying out loud!!

Nope, I ain't from Italy. Internos is! I'm in South India presently, enjoying the salubrious climate of the 'Queen of the Hills Stations'! And its almost 5 in the evening now.

Originally posted by DataWraith

So why not 'upgrade'.

Necessity is the mother of invention, when we can't go any further on this world we'll try to transfer to the next and that would mean a leap in technology and hence another need for more advanced tech. Our minds , and that will need to be upgraded to make room for more memories and experiences.

Interesting post Data! Yep, considering what you said, it is possible that advanced intelligent life has morphed into post biological machines. The motivating factor is the inherent desire to improve mental capacity.

It is possible that highly developed alien beings have already reached a point in their evolution where, having reached the peak capacity of their biological brains, have taken the next logical step and opted for robotic brains equipped with artificial intelligence of mind boggling complexity, which is way beyond our present comprehension. Is that our destiny? Only time will tell!

reply to post by mikesingh


Let me tell you something, in this universe, and when I say Universe I mean everything that exists, everything, absolutely everything is possible.

There is nothing you can imagine that can´t be happening or will happen or has happened in the absolute contents of everything that exists. Lets call it the Universe.

The Universe could then be devided in Subverses.

reply to post by Zepherian


very good point.. and yes I agree with you. the the thing I cant help but think when I reading the OP's very interesting thread is... we're contemplating all this far fetched future stuff... and even say (for relativities sake) that "they" could be beyond a type 3 civ.... if we are barely a 0 or whatever.. then how is it even possible to grasp any sort of concept as to what a post type 3 or even type 3 civ would do.. be made up of, etc. I mean cheers to the imaginiation and creativity of this post.. but if ya really try and put it in context.. theres no way our tiny brains of even the smartest people on our planet known or known could ever understand! its just not possible.. very interesting though for sure.. star and flag

reply to post by ToolFanMael


That's why we are generally equated to the level of an ant's brain compared to ours when talking about a Type 2 or higher civilization! In our present stage of evolution, it's impossible to even begin to figure out the complexities of the universe, as we at present can only think in 3 dimensions (if one doesn't count 'time' as a dimension).

We'll probably begin to understand its complexities when we graduate into thinking in 4, 5 or even higher dimensions. Try making an ant understand the fusion process and you'll know what I mean. As Dr Michio Kaku had mentioned in the ATS podcast, will an ant understand what a super highway is? It'll just amble across. Similarly, we may be in the midst of myriad advanced alien intelligences but haven't the faintest clue of how to detect them.

And so what Fermi concluded that if ET civilizations exist, why haven't they been found as yet? Therefore there cannot be such things as ETs. If there are, then they are so far away that it would be impossible to communicate with them! Well, Fermi probably didn't think of the ant analogy!

Cheers!

reply to post by mikesingh


Awesome post Mike!

I have wondered for quite some time now if Aliens are indeed super advanced androids. Many encounters seem to indicate these aliens don't have emotions as we do.... which supports such an idea. Being human does have limitations. As much as we would like to believe that we are "natural" and nature is "not to be tampered with," people all have one thing in common. When your young you are invincible. As you age "reality sets in." I think it's very likely in the future mankind will collectively ask themselves: Does reality really have to set in or can we do something about it?

Wow mike! As always, great find! You are really living up to your title!

Really makes you think. All I could think about though are the Combine from Half Life 2!

But I now pose this question. It is said that humans only utilize half their brain. If thats so, and we can make a trillion calculations a second, wouldnt it be double then if we unlocked our other half?

This reminds me of a recent video game called "Mass Effect". Basically, 150 years into the future, Humans have joined a Milky Way alien community after finding alien technological ruins on Mars that allowed them space travel. They discover Charon is actually a giant frozen teleporter device that takes you to other regions of the milky way. None of the aliens or humans know who built the teleporters, but they use the ones that they know are safe to travel.
Well it turns out that the teleporters were built by a group of artificially intelligent beings (that look like strange, giant spacecraft) that come out of hibernation from the regions just outside the Milky Way every 50,000 years to extinct all species and let the evolution start anew.

How do we humans know that we are not the result of a von neumann probe?

This is a great speculative thought piece.

I have often thought something along these lines was one possible answer to the Fermi Paradox - if the Universe were populated by super computers that could explain why "aliens" would have no interest in us until we reached the point of Technological Singularity. At which point (or some presently unimaginable predetermined point beyond that Singularity point) we would be absorbed into the pan-Galactic AI culture ...or we are already part of the Matrix

It also could be cool to make it impact a piece of a variable in the Drake Equation - that some percentage of Intelligent life becomes AI/Bio and is essentially immortal.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Zepherian
Welcome to the nightmare world of tecnocratic transhumanism, where a couple of second rate philosophers and elitist aristocrats plan the demise of not only the human race but the entire biosphere.

If I thought there was a bright future in transhumanistic machine based lifeforms I could go along with this, but am I the only one that thinks this is madness?

First Law:
A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law:
A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law:
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.


I hope they have some sort of preprograming with these basics replace human being with inteligent life.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by SLAYER69]

idont understand why you are quoting i robot maybe im missing the point of your post any a robot isnt sentient is is controlled AI is totally different if its intellegent in the same sence as us then it could deside what to do on its own laws would work about aswell as they do for humans

Originally posted by mikesingh
Is it possible that advanced intelligent life exists where biology has morphed into post biological machines? The motivating factor is the inherent desire to improve mental capacity. Is it possible that highly developed alien beings have already reached a point in their evolution where, having reached the peak capacity of their biological brains, have taken the next logical step and opted for robotic brains equipped with artificial intelligence?

Is it possible? Very! Is it a step forward in evolution? I do not know. That depends on the purpose and environment/living conditions of the beings being discussed, don't you think? In some instances, that could very well be de-evolvement.

I know that many on Earth are currently working on A.I that would make human life easier. SciFi has always had a fetish for having A.I that is so advanced, they pose a threat to their biological creators. Can this be a possibility on another plan, or on another plane of existence? Yes, I think so.

Thanks again Mike, for the thought provoking posts.

This is just crazy! Wow! I've always thought this could be possible but to hear the same thoughts from a NASA scientists blows my mind! Amazing research, this is so well done! IT is no wonder why you a conspiracy master!

Uh, yeah. They're from Cybertron. I remember hearing someplace once that they were more than meets the eye, whatever that means.

But seriously, flagged, starred, and feared.

Originally posted by unknownfrost
But I now pose this question. It is said that humans only utilize half their brain. If thats so, and we can make a trillion calculations a second, wouldnt it be double then if we unlocked our other half?

It is said that we utilize only about 10% of our brains! The computer revolution here on Earth has produced supercomputers capable of performing more than a quadrillion calculations per second! According to research by Hans Moravec, an artificial intelligence expert at Carnegie Mellon University, that is way ahead of the human brain's estimated top speed of 100 trillion calculations per second.

So that would translate to a quadrillion calculations per second if we utilized the full power of our brains! But then what? Would we be satisfied to remain stagnant at this level? Evolution would then force us to rapidly try and increase this capacity. But since we would have reached the peak efficiency of our biological brains, what would be the next step? AI with mind boggling capabilities - perhaps a trillion quadrillion calculations per second!!

Now is this frying your brain?

Cheers!

dont now if this is off topic but i had the wierdest thought ,

what if something could survive the big bang- big crunch-big bang scenario
jumping some where else just before the big singularity spectacle,
and re emerge just after ,

if that is possible and theyve learnt to cheet "death" they could be aeons old

reply to post by zerbot565


I suggest you hear the part II of ATS mix show featuring an interview with the renowned Dr Michio Kaku. He describes the possibility of the existence of 'multiverses', and advanced Type 3 civilizations that can travel through them! Our universe could be a minuscule part of a super universe consisting of several million universes!

To begin with, let's keep the 'super universe' aside for the moment, and check out the size of our universe first...

The Universe is so huge in fact that we’ll have to play around with scales so one can get a better idea.

According to the standard inflationary model of cosmology, the visible portion of our universe, the one mapped by our telescopes is an infinitesimally small speck in a much larger universe of at least 10 to the power 35 light-years across!

Admittedly this number is really, really big, and almost impossible to imagine. So lets shrink everything down, WAY down, just so we can get a better grasp of it. Let's imagine that the entire universe that we have seen in all the worlds telescopes, all the galaxies, all trillion of them, extending out 13 billion light years in every direction is shrunk down to the size of a golf ball.

If we do a volume calculation, the actual universe contains 10 to the power 60 of those golf balls! Wow, I guess we didn't shrink things down far enough, but this will have to do. So how big a volume would 10 to the power 60 golf balls fill up? Try a sphere 850 light years across! So imagine a mass of golf balls that big, and each one of those golf balls contains all the stars and galaxies that we can see through our telescopes!!

Now let’s try it with speed. Ready? Imagine traveling so fast that you can go from on end of the galaxy to the other in just one second. At this speed the entire galaxy would be in reach before you can say the word "go", and wham, you're there. At this speed, you could travel to the nearest galaxy Andromeda in 22 seconds flat. And you could cross from end of the visible universe to the other in 72 hours.

So, lets speed up our warp vehicles again, so that we can travel a quintillion light years every second. At such a speed we could cross the known universe 100 million times in one second.

So, how long would it take to cross from one side of the actual universe to the other?

3.7 billion years!!!

Wow!! Makes you feel small, real small, what? Now as I mentioned earlier, all this is just a minuscule part of a much larger 'super universe' consisting of millions of such universes!! Now can you even begin to comprehend its size? And its age?

Back to the age old question: Are we alone? Or better still, CAN we be alone?

Cheers!

blissful.co.nz...




[edit on 15-8-2008 by mikesingh]

I think we're already going down this route of turning into mechanical entities rather than biological ones.

Like I said before, mechanical machines are inferior to biological ones. It's just that we haven't mastered bio-technology yet, and are only able to create inferior mechanical machines.

if infinity truly exists

then so does everything else

kudos