If you were Garry McKinnon

If you had found what Garry claims he found on NASA's computers.....
A:How would you get away with it?
B:Where would you post EVIDENCE so as to reach as many people as possible?
C:Would you do what Garry did in the first place?

Im so fed up with all the secrets that im almost willing to follow his example to find the truth,but im no hacker with skills...Just a pissed of CIVI that hates being lied to.

So the main reason for this post is to find out what Garry could have done better to force Disclosure.

What do you all think?

(can a mod please put this in the general forum?)

[edit on 13-8-2008 by SvenTheBerserK]

88 views and no reply's....this is awkward....have i asked a stupid question?

Anyway im thinking i would use a proxy to connect.
Then gather photo's and post them on photobucket and various forums.

Would it be that simple?

reply to post by SvenTheBerserK


Don't worry, I always seem to get a large number of people viewing my threads, but not that many people replying to them!

Anyways moving on.... Firstly, I do not believe Gary Mckinnon achieved what he said he did, he had NO evidence what so ever.

Come on people, if he is such an expert with computers, and he manages to hack into the US military's computer systems, then you would think he would at least be able to take a screenshot, or download the files!

In the video interview with him thats posted on youtube he states that he couldnt download the image/s due to the fact he was using a 56K modem!
Thats an absolutely ridiculous claim to make!

If he is the hacker expert he proclaims to be then theyre is no way he would be using a 56K modem, do you know anyone that still uses 56K modems? (Apart from Businesse's using then to dial in to their systems as a method of last resort should their main systems fail)

All he would need to do is print screen, that doesn't download anything!!

I agree with you, that personally, if it was me I would post the evidence to every conspiracy board I knew about, this one firstly and yes probably do something to what you described upload to photobucket etc

Another good idea would be to email the photos to CNN, BBC, Sky News etc. Thats an almost surefire way of them receieving publicity.

As to just using a proxy to connect.... Well your on right lines, but believe me it wouldnt be that simple what so ever.

Your best bet (assuming you had all the nescessary software and expertise ) would be to use a laptop with a wireless network card, connect to a free Wi-Fi connection or even better bounce through an unsecure wireless network, connect through a series of proxies and wingates, get the information needed, and cover your tracks. Then, if it was me I would upload the evidence, and most likely destroy the laptop.

The above scenario is a lot more complex in real life, but thats the bare bones of the hacking part.

Heres a link to the video interview:

www.youtube.com...

I haven't watched it all again because I haven't got time, however if I recall correctly he makes numerous technical errors regarding the computer systems he "hacked" into. Errors that a GCSE IT student would not make.

[edit on 13/8/08 by Death_Kron]

Thanks for the reply that was an interesting read.
I guess the laptop would be traced....um...is it a serial number in the CPU?
Do you or anyone out there think it would be worth the trouble going through all that to force disclosure? or would you rather just sit back and wait?
I think i would rather be the person who goes down in history as the one who forced there hand,no matter what the repercussions.

This is more like it.

As I've stated on another thread I don't believe Gary is a terrorist, super-hacker or that he even has a 'trump card' that the US want to silence him over. Just a guy who got a bit obsessed about finding things out that probably weren't even there to start with.

It's all political and Gary can be used to set an example to all the other guys and gals that were in the computer systems at the same time as him.

Nowadays they can hold people indefinitely without charge in inhumane conditions with the possibility of torture should they believe that person does hold valuable information.

The main crux of the matter is that liberties, NOT, just of US citizens, but more to the point of British citizens are being eroded in direct contravention of human rights and British law.

This is essentially what Gary's fight is about and it's not just Gary's fight.

The scope regarding terrorism and links to terrorism has widened significantly and at this rate even posts such as this one and sites such as this one could fall within that scope in the next few months/years. It should concern eveyone that the US can extradite a British citizen without any evidence of the allegation(s) laid at that citizens door.....................and the British judicial system either helps or just doesn't seem to know it's own arse from it's elbow. See the Law Lords ruling on this one for what I mean!

And he did all this back in'02 when Broadband etc. etc. wasn't what it is nowadays! 56k modems were state of the art back then......and bloody slow. I believe him that he didn't download anything, just a UFO enthusiast that got himself into deep water through over enthusiasm and a deplorable legal system!


[edit on 14-8-2008 by Nexus1]

[edit on 14-8-2008 by Nexus1]

reply to post by SvenTheBerserK


Considering how seriously people on this board take the subject of UFO'S/Aliens then yes I think there ARE a lot of people who would be willing to go through all the trouble for full disclosure. However, Im not too sure if I would be one of them!

Personally, if someone actually did do this and provide the evidence to the world I doubt that they would actually be persecuted for it because I think it would cause public outrage. Can you imagine the headlines? "Man who PROVES aliens are real to be executed!"

People would be very, very angry not only because the government is killing the person who proved their existance to the world, but also the fact that the government has lied and denied that they existed.

The way they would trace the laptop is by checking their servers logs for its IP address, thats why you would you a numerous amount of proxies & wingates -the IP address in the server logs wouldn't be yours.

To aid detection even further you could piggyback onto someones home wireless network and use their broadband - so even if they did trace it back through the logs of all the proxies - it still wouldn't be yours.

[edit on 14/8/08 by Death_Kron]

[edit on 14/8/08 by Death_Kron]

If he is the hacker expert he proclaims to be then theyre is no way he would be using a 56K modem, do you know anyone that still uses 56K modems?

You don't live in the UK then.

Him using a 56 k dial-up MODEM at the time he committed the offense of hacking, is quite probable.

In another thread several people said he'd done nothing wrong. This is incorrect. He himself admits he hacked government computers. What he disputes is the level of damaged committed against each system the US Government is alleging he damaged.

As I've said before, a serious hacker will not want to damage anything, in order not to be discovered. Breaking systems is counter-productive, and my gut feeling is Gary knew well that this is the case and didn't.

As for what he saw - I suspect even Gary himself is unaware of what he might have had access to had he dug into every corner of the systems.

I haven't out-ruled the possibility that he's hiding what he's really seen. His method of hacking seems plausible to a point, but there is a couple of details that aren't jiving (and I think it's intentional misinformation that he has been asked to spread). Other than that, I think he's 100% telling the truth.

The charges he's facing support that, and even our own intelligence services support that. They saw what he did, and they support his story that he was only hacking and looking at stuff, and nothing more.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


I do apologise, I didn't actually realise that these offences were committed in 2002. Why has it taken so long for him to be dealt with?

Could it be a possibility that because he actually HAS seen something thats the reason the US is coming down so hard on him? As opposed to their claim that he damaged their computer systems.

What I really don't understand is if Gary Mckinnon had the knowledge & skill to actually hack into the US militarys computer systems then why did he lack the knowledge to cover his tracks?

I understand it isn't as simple as that but still ....

What was the method Gary used to access the systems?

I think it tells you in that video I posted, I'll watch it again now and comment.

What I really don't understand is if Gary Mckinnon had the knowledge & skill to actually hack into the US militarys computer systems then why did he lack the knowledge to cover his tracks?

I understand it isn't as simple as that but still ....

What was the method Gary used to access the systems?

I think it tells you in that video I posted, I'll watch it again now and comment.

I think he had the knowledge - his use of terminology is too easy for it to be learned for interviews.

Apparently he said he used an app called RemotelyAnywhere but I can't say I've heard of that one. If that is it, I'll do a Google on it. There is a PCAnywhere that I have heard of.

Given some of the systems I'm sure he's going to have had to go through, he's going to need a bit more than that app. If their system security is so lax that that is all he needed, then frankly I'm surprised they didn't get hacked like this sooner.

He says he saw other systems in there snooping around - I doubt he's lying about this.

then why did he lack the knowledge to cover his tracks?

He didn't. In one of his interviews he talks of having a live chat session with a computer tech via Notepad. This is how he got busted. They checked the logs of traffic coming in/out of the network (every computer has a traceable IP - no IP is untraceable; some are just harder), and tracked the intrusion to him (this can be done by simple date/time matching).

I'm always intrigued at how such systems are on the 'net in the first place. If they're that sensitive, why even put them on a network that eventually leads to outside?

I think a lot of what's going on regarding Gary is 'testing the water' regarding the extradition treaty the British govt. signed with the US authorities.

They knew it would be tested in ECHR and that's what these first few cases are all about. Gary's not the first. He probably won't be the last.

If the US really had a case for Gary to answer they would have gone for extradition at the time. Not years later. They had to wait for this treaty to be in place. A treaty that requires NO EVIDENCE on their part to support their allegations.

reply to post by Nexus1


If I was Gary I would leave the country and go on the run, if your gonna go down, go down instyle, go on the run, hack in to the computers again and blow the lid off the whole thing.
If they want to "fry" him then i would want to be guilty of something with fryability!

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


To believe that Gary Mckinnon hacked the US militarys computer systems through the sole use of PcAnywhere is absolutely ridicoulous!

Apparently, he says he used a PERL script to scan computers with blank passwords, something which I also do not believe.

Why would you have a live chat session via notepad with a computer user of a system you was hacking?!?! A simple command, variant of the operating system of the computer you was attacking, would reveal if any users were logged on or not.

Yes, you are correct every computer does have an IP address, and again you are right no IP address is untracable, but a hacker of that calibre would know to use proxies/wingates/rootkits/logcleaners. Doesn't make sense mate, If I know this then why didn't he?

Well, it astounds me to believe that systems as sensitive as these are actually on the net, but in reality this isn't exactly the case... Normally, its a system that is connected to another system that is connected to a final system that is on the net.

You find the first and you work your way through, you would be surprised some of the systems accessibile through the internet, its truly scary...

However, I'm sure if this was the actual case with Gary Mckinnon then it would have happened more than 100 times by now ..

[edit on 14/8/08 by Death_Kron]