9-11: The Jesuit Connection

Originally posted by Sandalfon

Originally posted by LordCarpainter

1) The Knights of Malta are a Vatican military order. That is a known fact. To deny it is COINTELPRO.

2) Of course! George H.W Bush 'isn't Catholic'! Sure, whatever. Total disinfo/time-wasting. Declassified documents prove that Dwight Eisenhower was a Knight, but he wasn't officially Catholic. By saying that he cannot be a Knight because he is officially 'not Catholic' proves you to be one of the many debunkers that infest this forum and I will therefore not waste any more time on you.

Dear, gentle Lord Carpainter -- is it your intellectual custom to make grandiose and sweeping assertions, and then when challenged, to note that you can't 'waste any more time' on a subject, malign the questioner, and wander off in a virtual huff? Tsk, tsk.

Somewhere around 6th grade, perhaps in doing the most basic of reports, most young people are asked to define terms, make an assertion of belief or opinion, and then back it up with proofs or sources to support the assertion.

In the earlier post, you pressed the 'secrecy' aspect of the Order of Malta. I challenged you about it. (You still haven't truly replied to that.) When you did reply, you noted that it was a "Vatican military order" -- a fact that is not in dispute by me. To be clear - this writer is absolutely aware that the Order of Malta is a papal military order. (There are dozens of papal military orders, in fact.) So back to Lord Carpainter's assertion that it's a secret order ... which you have, in your breathless reply, completely ignored. So the questions remain, 1) How is SMOM secret?, and 2) If it is secret, please cite some valid source or scholarly opinion that SMOM is a secret society. (Or shall we just assume that it's a "Vatican military order" instead?)

Second, I'm not sure what triggers your animus with the question about George Bush. If he's a Roman Catholic, what's the source? If he's a knight of Malta, what's the source? (Incidentally, if Dwight Eisenhower was a knight of Malta, what's the source for that? Since he was a Presbyterian and a Freemason, finding out that he was part of a "Vatican military order", as you suggest, is going to rock a lot of worlds!) But back to George. Last time I checked, George Bush was raised Episcopalian (Anglican) and still is.

So you're saying that George H.W. Bush is now Roman Catholic AND a knight of Malta?!?! Holy cow -- you've got to go public with this. Do you know any AP reporters? It's like he "pulled a Tony Blair" and quietly became a Catholic -- and you, Lord Carpainter, could be sitting on the biggest news story of the year! I suggest you blow the lid on the big coverup. (Oh, one thing -- they'll need to cite your proofs and sources, of course. You won't be able to just make big claims and not back them up.)

Here's an article on St. Ann's in Kennebunkport, where the Bushes worship:

www.downeast.com...

Darn if the Rector of St. Ann's isn't going to feel a little silly that those crafty Bushes -- George and Babs -- are secretly Roman Catholic but continue to attend the Episcopal church ...

You must certainly move in some secret impressive circles, Lord Carpainter, to have obtained this (very hush hush) information -- because the US branch of the Order of Malta, the Episcopal Church in the USA, and G.H.W. Bush's presidential historian don't know anything about this, at all!

Please tell us more -- but cite your sources and proofs, of course.

Cheers,
Sandalfon


[edit on 11/24/0808 by Sandalfon]

WE'VE GOT A SPOOK HERE!

Since one's membership isn't public, it's a secret society.

Yes, George H.W Bush is Catholic. He has close ties to the Vatican. His son Jeb is a Catholic Knight of Columbus and his son George is clearly a closet Catholic, as reported by the Washington Post in their article "A Catholic Wind In The White House" (Go read it!)

Here's a massive amount of links that mention his SMOM membership:

www.oss.net...
www.gnosticliberationfront.com...
www.serendipity.li...
www.voxfux.com...
www.clayandiron.com...
www.phillyimc.org...
textfiles.fisher.hu...
www.sherryshriner.com...
www.proparanoid.net...

reply to post by LordCarpainter



That's an informative article in the Washington Post, but sorry ... no cigar.

Having several (or many) Roman Catholics on your administrative staff, or working with them as colleagues does not a Roman Catholic make. That very article notes pointedly that President Bush is a Methodist. (That's the little group Wesley started in the 1700s as a breakaway from the Anglicans, remember? It's the 2nd largest mainline denomination in the USA.)

So though you suggest he's a "closet Catholic" -- he's not ACTUALLY a Roman Catholic -- he's not entitled to take communion at a Roman Catholic altar; he's not a participant in the sacraments of the Roman Catholic church; he's not entitled or qualified to be a Knight of Malta.

Former president George H.W. Bush is a lifelong Episcopalian -- always has been, and still is. Babs is an Episcopalian, too. Having "close ties to the Vatican" as you opine, does not make him a Roman Catholic. He is not a Knight of Malta. He can't be -- he's not a Roman Catholic. (But see below for a quirky factor that confuses people.)

George W. Bush, the current President, is a member of the United Methodist Church. He was raised Episcopalian, and became Methodist later in life. In Washington, he attends an Episcopal Church when he attends services. He's not a Knight of Malta.

Here's the thing -- you can't really back up your interesting opinions by just citing theory or conspiracy websites as reputable proof that someone "secretly" belongs to a religion when it's known and common public truth (and observable practice) that they belong to a different one. In this case, two national Protestant denominations -- The Protestant Episcopal Church in the USA (headquarters in NYC) and the United Methodist Church (headquarters in Nashville, TN) -- which claim the elder Bush, and the younger Bush, respectively, among their adherents.

But you're absolutely correct about one thing -- Jeb Bush is indeed a Roman Catholic! He converted from Episcopalian to Roman Catholic in 1995 -- presumably because his wife is Catholic -- and subsequently became a Knight of Columbus. (I don't know if he's a Knight of Malta or not -- he could be, because he's a Roman Catholic.)

Here's a quirky detail that might interest you -- it's the source of rampant confusion and misinformation on the Web: The SMOM does give out an HONORARY Order of Merit -- in various ranks -- to non-Catholic heads of state for humanitarian service.

Eisenhower, Ford, Reagan, and Bush (41) have all recieved the Order of Malta's Order of Merit ("Pro Merito Melitense") for their international and humanitaritan efforts. Reagan was the first instance the collar was awarded to a US president while in office. (Google "pro merito melitense" if you want to read more about this.)

Reagan was to his last days a Presbyterian, and he and Nancy attended Bel Aire Presbyterian Church on Mulholland Drive in Los Angeles until he was confined to his home on St. Cloud Road, also in Bel Aire. His funeral service was held at the Episcopal Cathedral of Sts. Peter & Paul, aka the "National Cathedral" and the official seat of the Episcopal Church in the USA.

So at the last, even an honorary merit award from the Order of Malta does not a Roman Catholic make -- but it does give them a swell decoration to wear on white-tie occasions -- that's presuming that Presbyterians, Methodists, and Episcopalians get to occasionally wear white tie and tails, too.

Cheers.

[edit on 12/27/0808 by Sandalfon]

reply to post by LordCarpainter


One more thing. In your last post, you said:

"Since one's membership isn't public, it's a secret society."

Actually, that isn't true. Consider that:

Call your nearest country club and ask if you can have a list of their members. They'll say no -- it's a private organization.

Call a church in your town and ask if you can have a list of their members. They'll say no -- lists of their adherents is not public information.

Call your local college and ask if you can have a list of their students. They'll say that unless you're law enforcement or have a justifiable need for that information, it's not available to the public.

Are these organizations "secret"?

Of course not.

There is a huge distinction between a private association and a secret society.

If you all want a full scale education on the jesuit/illuminati/freemason world domination plot, along with full history and sources backed by quotes and resources, you can go to www.letsroll911.org . Join as a member, its free, and go to the forums under "Vatican New World Order" and you'll find tons f info with sourcesto back them up.

Just letting ya know,

D

I am quite sure some persons of the CIA knew about the attacks, and failed to take preventive measurses. There is no question about CIA black-ops. They happen and have done for a long time.

Did some persons in the CIA actually manipulate events to bring about the attacks of 9-11? It is possible, but I would not know about that.

However, about Timothy McVeigh and the OKC bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah building. There were two or three of us in a donut shop in SE Florida about two or three in the a.m. some time before the incident in OKC. We got into a conversation with two guys, one tall and thin, the other shorter. The taller of the two kept going on about making a fertilizer bomb and attacking government, which he insisted they were definitely going to do. There was more to the conversation than stated here.
After the attack in OKC I read a book about it, and learned that McVeigh's mother lived in Fort Pierce, about 15 miles from that donut shop, his sister lived in Pembroke Pines, FL, and he may have in fact been in the area. Not only that, a Greek man named Dennis told me he was sure he had seen Mcveigh in the Treasure Coast Mall about three miles north of the donut shop, and closer to Fort Pierce. The tall guy in the donut shop said they were definitely for sure going to do it, and he went on about fertilizer bombs too. No question about it. He also told me to remember the word---Invictus, I believe it was if I remember correctly.

[edit on 29-12-2008 by Jailhouserock]

Originally posted by LordCarpainter
You want us to believe that because Bush says he is an Episcopalian he is.

Former President George H.W. Bush is a lifelong, baptised, confirmed, and practicing Episcopalian. He is not, nor has he ever been, a Roman Catholic.

I guess that's why he's in the Bohemian Club, right?

Being Episcopalian probably doesn't have much to do with his Bohemian Club membership, but yes, there are both Episcopalians and Roman Catholics (and Jews, and Lutherans, and agnostics, and gays, and Democrats, and everything else) in the Bohemian Club.

You're trying to overload us with detail with paragraphs and trying to engage me in an endless debate, but I'm too smart for classic shill tactics like these.

I commend you for being "too smart" -- intelligence is a very good thing.

Now you're going to look right because I didn't respond to all your spin. That's to be expected. -Sigh-

Facts have a quirky way of intruding on the stories we tell. Frankly, your version of things is much more interesting than these boring old facts allow. I'm reminded of the (old Italian?) truism, that "if it isn't true; it should be". That seems to apply in this case.

See all those stars by my OP? Your never going to have that for all your spin posts. You only got one star so far.

Clearly, Lord Carpainter has so many more stars than Sandalfon could ever hope to have, and I humbly concede to your star-collection superiority.

Cheers,
Sandalfon

Former President George H.W. Bush is a lifelong, baptised, confirmed, and practicing Episcopalian. He is not, nor has he ever been, a Roman Catholic.

Evidence? Because you stage photo-ops at Churches doesn't mean it's true. George H.W Bush's father, Prescott, was Jesuit-trained at Stonyhurst College, as was his grandfather, George Herbert Walker. His son Jeb is a Knight of Columbus and his other son, Neil, served on a board with Joseph Ratzinger.

Being Episcopalian probably doesn't have much to do with his Bohemian Club membership, but yes, there are both Episcopalians and Roman Catholics (and Jews, and Lutherans, and agnostics, and gays, and Democrats, and everything else) in the Bohemian Club.

It proves they're not real Christians, because of the activities that take place in the Grove. Are you saying that the Club is non-conspiratorial and that there is no New World Order or conspiracy here of any type?

I commend you for being "too smart" -- intelligence is a very good thing.

Why does George W. Bush, President of the United States, bow to the Pope, a foreign head of state?

Facts have a quirky way of intruding on the stories we tell. Frankly, your version of things is much more interesting than these boring old facts allow. I'm reminded of the (old Italian?) truism, that "if it isn't true; it should be". That seems to apply in this case.

"My version"? Sorry, I provided tons of links in my OP. Maybe you didn't see them. Are you one of the many paid debunkers here? If so, when are you and your boys at Fort Bragg and the agency going to realize that we're not fooled?

Clearly, Lord Carpainter has so many more stars than Sandalfon could ever hope to have, and I humbly concede to your star-collection superiority.

Your welcome, bub.

A reminder to keep this thread On Topic and to refrain from directing comments to the individual posters.

Thank you for your understanding.

Now, back to the regularly scheduled thread, entitled "9-11: The Jesuit Connection".

I like the conspiracy run down and worth many 2nd looks.
Collapse of the Federal building by taking out beams in front to
make an appearance of truck bombings familiar to what we have
sustained seems inventive.
Yet the WTC truck bomb was tried as the Northwoods air attack
method was clearly beginning to be contemplated.

A Jesuit education may not be on the list of many Catholics.
Why others are interested are their own choice.
Can't say that that link did it all but they surely were duped if it
helped them at all since nothing good came of what they thought
they were doing.

a reply to: LordCarpainter

This was an excellent thread and i thought it was worth letting it go around again. The information is still highly relevant and now Knight of Columbus Jeb Bush is on the verge of being President of the US and new Pope Francis is a Jesuit we can see that the positions of power are almost complete for the Jesuit NWO.

Whooops

Even if only half of these are true it is rather telling. I went and looked up Bill Casey, CIA director under Reagan during Iran/Contra and sure enough - he was Roman Catholic as well. You may remember this about him:

Hours before Casey was scheduled to testify before Congress related to his knowledge of Iran-Contra, he was reported to have been rendered incapable of speech during an operation to remove a brain tumor.

Yes, he was a Knight of Malta as well. - Wikipedia.

If we look at the overall context of world events the Jesuits being involved makes a great deal of sense. After WW2 the US entered in to close relations with the Vatican to extract not Nazi scientists but to set up spy networks around the world. Along with MI6 it became a matter of who is spying for who.
After 2 long wars in the Middle East and covert support for several revolutions the West is now at war with radical Islam and with the rise of ISIS it seems they are trying to make it spread in to a wider conflict of Islam against the Christian world.
The Papacy has long used it's power and connections to carry out missions one could call military or pro-revolutionary while hiding behind the cloak of religion. I'm glad somebody posted to this thread recently or I should have never run across it.

re closets and catholics
lol
as we have seen: what goes on in those closets!

i thought close ties to the vatican ment
ties as in NECK and ROPE
and vatican as in BANK


successful bankers have a lot of fingers in a lot of pies and intelligence gathering IS the key to successful investing
so what bankers are connected to what scam?

who pays who?
what denomination is important?
catholic?
Methodist?
Jesuit?
worship of money...denominated in fifties and hundreds
lol


R-i-c-h-j-e-s-t-$US

originally posted by: adrenochrome
this is, by far, the most underrated thread on ATS!!!

it's really too bad no one seems to care about it though...

(i hope i'm very wrong...)

deny ignorance!!!

I think many do care but feel worried they are, or will be monitored and put on some blacklist as soon as they make a harsh statements about who they think of the (former) US government is involved and doing what.

originally posted by: zatara

originally posted by: adrenochrome
this is, by far, the most underrated thread on ATS!!!

it's really too bad no one seems to care about it though...

(i hope i'm very wrong...)

deny ignorance!!!

I think many do care but feel worried they are, or will be monitored and put on some blacklist as soon as they make a harsh statements about who they think of the (former) US government is involved and doing what.

My thoughts are the more the merrier. If they knew everyone disliked what they were doing it might just change things a little bit. I wouldn't worry about being on any list - if it comes down to that your choices are few and none. If you are allowed to live it will only be as a slave with no freedom. Bottom line, there's nothing to lose by speaking your mind except perhaps the future. If we are all cowed in to silence everyone will think things are ok.

notre dame fires would have a more direct connection as the insurance goes back more directly, no?

whereas with wtc the insurance was between silverstein & Netanyahu, but at least in the reaction of war against Islamic territories, it's a win-win for the Vatican, papacy, cc, etc.

originally posted by: tulsi
notre dame fires would have a more direct connection as the insurance goes back more directly, no?

whereas with wtc the insurance was between silverstein & Netanyahu, but at least in the reaction of war against Islamic territories, it's a win-win for the Vatican, papacy, cc, etc.

That makes me wonder if the insurance company knows they got screwed or if they simply believe the official story lock, stock and barrel.

arson is like the oldest trick in the book

it used to be once an accelerant/explosive is found, insurance sues the party that planted it to payout.

obviously insurance co including their personnel are up against deepstate themselves in these false flags so have to pay out publicly and seek comp behind NDAs with gov

a reply to: Trucker1

www.metabunk.org/other-wtc7-investigations-aegis-insurance-v-7-world-trade-company-expert-reports.t7112/

www.metabunk.org...

The insurance companies investigated WTC 7 and paid for their own studies.