Email I sent to an organised stalker

I think most of you are being a bit unfair. You are attacking his psyche, so let's analyze a bit here.

He can write coherently, he spells well, his grammar is better than most I have seen in the entirety of ATS, and he is being logical about his conclusions, as illogical as most of you may want them to be. I'm surprised that some of you haven't stepped up in his defense talking about how psychiatrists and this paranoia facet of psychology are all part of some disinformation campaign.

Also, he has made mostly valid points in his responses to your clinical evaluations of his mentality and has been nicer about it than I might have been, seeing as there are probably very few of you here who are qualified to make the diagnosis you all have considering the nature of the problem you describe him as having.

Right now you all look like a bunch of doctors talking over an operating table and it is mildly rude, not that that is the problem. I am just saying that, maybe, in the interest of fairness considering this is a conspiracy board, it would be better to more deeply figure out why he has these ideas and not shove it off immediately to some kind of paranoia.

reply to post by masonwatcher


Why do you think you are being stalked? Have you done anything to anger a group of people?

I think it's important to note that the Freemasons were also persecuted during WWII.

Holocaust Museum

During the course of the Third Reich, Nazi historians and ideologues intended to "prove" that there was a "Jewish-Masonic conspiracy" to take over the world and thus legitimate the Nazis’ anti-Masonic actions. That Freemasonry was both a "secret" and an international organization that was not tied to Germany and a German leader further fueled Nazi conspiracy theories. The Nazis were also against Freemasonry because the Fraternity was dedicated to certain ideals and values (including peace, tolerance, and open communication between men of different religions, races, and nationalities) that the Nazi Party found threatening to its fascist and racist ideology. Therefore, Nazi Party organizations and German police agencies confiscated a tremendous number of documents, books, membership lists, and objects from Masonic lodges that they had closed throughout the Reich and Nazi-occupied Europe. Not only were these materials used, or meant to be used, for reasons of Nazi ideology and propaganda, but they were also used to persecute individual Masons.

It is quite possible for someone to be mentally unstable and otherwise appear normal. Suffering from severe paranoia and delusions of grandeur does not at all mean that you can't type correctly or communicate in a normal fashion.

People who are trying to defend the OP here are doing the mental health community an injustice by reinforcing negative stereotypes. Most people who suffer from mental illness look and act completely normal. Its what they do to themselves in their own mind and behind closed doors that signals the mental health issue. Just because you have mental health problems doesn't mean you have to be chained up and put in a padded room, or that your only capable of mumbling and foaming at the mouth!

Gang stalking is a symptom of extreme delusions of grandeur combined with paranoia. People who claim it always claim they have tons of proof but cannot provide any, and conveniently, everyone who disagrees becomes part of the group who is gang stalking.

reply to post by masonwatcher


I find it completely believable. I read somewhere that the test sheet to find if someone was suffering from paranoia, was actually designed in such a way that if someone did report being stalked, then they would naturally fulfill the criteria of the medical assessment guidlines. It is a shame, but very telling, that anyone who automatically calls mental illness is either ignorant or an insider.

Just try to maintain an upbeat mood, anyone who engages in stalking or other power games is normally a very sad individual, with a very low opinion of themselves. Or completely controlled by fear in some way or someone. These people tormenting you are akin to dog dirt on a shoe. Nothing.

Take Care.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Believing you are a victim of "gang stalking" is a symptom of extreme mental health problems and paranoia.

Actually believing you are a victim of gang stalking, is quite often a symptom of being gang stalked. That is why the phrase "gang-stalking" exists. Is a secret service tactic. However, posting anonymously to call the OP mentally ill speaks volumes about your personal intention.

Best Wishes.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Gang stalking is a symptom of extreme delusions of grandeur combined with paranoia. People who claim it always claim they have tons of proof but cannot provide any, and conveniently, everyone who disagrees becomes part of the group who is gang stalking.

This is what I was trying to say. Here is a website put up to forward this paranoia: www.gangstalkingworld.com...

A quote from the website:

It called Gang Stalking, because groups of community Spies/Snitches organise to stalk and monitor targets 24/7.

Here is a video that reportedly exposes gang stalking. Search Youtube and the like for "gang Stalking" to find more. In the video I see a tortureous life in which the whole world is out to get you. The narrator/filmer sounds intelligent but connects a host of different events into a web of oppression.


She makes claims about things being "obvious" and "no way could they see me filming".

You know that feeling where you feel someone watching you and you turn around and someone is? That is our natural psychic ability to perceive the attention of another human being. What these gang stalking "victims" do is interpret every person who looks at them or is around them as being part of the gang that is stalking them.

OF course the gang stalking "victim" is looking intently at all these people for a long time in some instances thereby becoming a "gang stalker" of the people around them.

David Lawson's book, Cause Stalking, has this write up on Amazon:

Cause stalking is performed by extremist and anti-government groups. Targets include activists, the enemies of politicians and the corporations they work for, whistle blowers, Public Officials, and Doctors who perform abortions. They also select targets of opportunity. These are not enemies of the group, but are selected, based on their vulnerability. Stalking groups can be as large as hundreds of people. Targets are subjected to harassment campaigns, break-ins, staged incidents, vandalism, etc. Their M.O. is 1.Identify, 2 Villify, 3 Nullify 4 Destroy. This book is a guide for victims on how to get rid of these people. Visit CauseStalking.Net.

First it suggests that the "stalkers" are "extremist and anti-government groups". Then in the next sentence the "stalkers" target anti-government activists and enemies FOR the "Public Officials". Anyone see the irony here?


[edit on 8/15/08 by stikkinikki]

Originally posted by stikkinikki
First it suggests that the "stalkers" are "extremist and anti-government groups". Then in the next sentence the "stalkers" target anti-government activists and enemies FOR the "Public Officials". Anyone see the irony here?

There is no irony. Both sides use stalking. This is no mystery for someone who has been professionally trained in close-protection. As I stated before, secret services use these tactics.

Regardless of this. The OP says he is being stalked. Are you suggesting this is impossible and the OP is mentally ill? And if so what qualifies you to make those claims?

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Property is also sabotaged, windows smashed, tires slashed and mail interfered with. Usually nothing serious, extensive and dispersed over several times a month. It is deliberately kept low key to not elicit interest from the police. This harassment usually last for several years and has driven some to suicide.

Has your toilet ever unexpectedly exploded?

Methinks you might want to lay off the hashish... just a thought.

You're not in Phuket, by chance, are you?

Originally posted by masonwatcher
There have been numerous documented cases of groups of criminal Freemason being caught red handed.

I love this one... people throw it around all the time.

Can you provide some examples that don't include P2?

We're talking officially documented cases, right?

...waiting...

P.S. Please tell me that's not a portrait of Geroge Washington you have defaced in your avatar there... less than humorous.

[edit on 8/15/08 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by TrueLight
There is no irony. Both sides use stalking. This is no mystery for someone who has been professionally trained in close-protection. As I stated before, secret services use these tactics.

Regardless of this. The OP says he is being stalked. Are you suggesting this is impossible and the OP is mentally ill? And if so what qualifies you to make those claims?

The OP made no mention of being personally stalked in the OP. The OP brought up organized stalking. I added my information and views on gang stalking as it seemed apropos to the discussion.

Gang stalking, in the terms of a group of annonymous unpaid people spending their whole day trying to irritate a subject, is a paranoid delusion. This becomes clear upon a serch throught the internets videos of submitted gang stalking "evidence".

reply to post by TrueLight


Thank you for your comment but I think it is only fair to mention that there are many good Freemasons. Unfortunately, amongst their ranks are criminals, bigots and racists. These creatures slither into Freemasonry and exploit the long established networks offered by this secret organisation.

Freemasons are aware of the infiltration by this filth but find it expedient to ignore their problem. Fortunately, corruption corrodes from the inside and I have made it my business to expose it until the vast membership do something.

reply to post by stikkinikki


If that is true then people are accusing the OP of being mentally ill for simply researching this topic? Smacks of nervous overreactions to me.

As regards the validity of gang stalking, of course it is real. It is difficult to prove, because, after all, it is people following someone.

If you are a female being gang-stalked it isn't usually detected until it progresses. To gang assaulting, or gang raping. Once an actual physical harm has been caused then it is obviously easy to prove. There have been enough convictions for gang rape in desolate places to prove that the preceeding gang stalking lead up to it. So gang stalking is real.

Best Wishes.

Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by TrueLight

 

Thank you for your comment but I think it is only fair to mention that there are many good Freemasons. Unfortunately, amongst their ranks are criminals, bigots and racists. These creatures slither into Freemasonry and exploit the long established networks offered by this secret organisation.

Freemasons are aware of the infiltration by this filth but find it expedient to ignore their problem. Fortunately, corruption corrodes from the inside and I have made it my business to expose it until the vast membership do something.

I never mentioned the freemasons, I was merely commenting on the validity of stalking. I think, if that is your intention that it is doomed to failure. For starters, unless the crime is akin to murder, the masons will turn a blind eye to the behaviour of their bretheren. They swear to.

I suppose if you want to write to the individual lodges to make them aware of your complaints etc, I can only wish you good luck and hope you don't get killed. Here is a link to an outdated list of every freemasonic officer from the 2003/4 UGLE yearbook (UK). And some other info this guy has. Maybe this will be of some use to you.

www.public-interest.co.uk...

Take Care.

Originally posted by TrueLight
For starters, unless the crime is akin to murder, the masons will turn a blind eye to the behaviour of their bretheren. They swear to.

May I ask at how you arrived at this assumption?

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Believing you are a victim of "gang stalking" is a symptom of extreme mental health problems and paranoia. There are simply not that many people in the world who pose threats to powerful people AND those people are powerful enough to employ others to engage in organized stalking.

It simply comes down to people who want to find a justification for the current circumstances in their life. As such, they look to string together meaningless events to give them meaning and explain why their life is in a place that they are not happy with. These events become the actions of some sinister evil party, in this case, "gang stalkers."

Freemasonry...or anyone else, for that matter, is not involved in such actions - and never have been. Stalking, when it really happens, is done by one or very rarely small groups of people who have their own mental issues or are have criminal intent. In the case of the later, there is a very clear motive. But the classical "gang stalking" you read about on conspiracy boards is almost always a symptom of mental health issues.

That's a pretty blanket statment to make. I really wonder if anyone who talks about the subject matter reads up on what is being said now, by many of the new sites, and not some of the older disinformation sites. Here is a site that I think it pretty good. It's really well researched.

www.TheHiddenEvil.com...

Welcome. This website is devoted to explaining a global program of torture, murder & persecution which I call the Hidden Evil. It includes a vast network of plain-clothed citizen informants, which is used for public stalking, & the use of Directed Energy Weapons on targeted individuals. All core factions of the community are involved, & everyone, from seniors to children, participates in Gang Stalking. Governments have used these groups in some form since the Roman Empire. The Hidden Evil is an example of this pattern repeating itself.

The citizens' network patrols the streets of your neighborhoods. The evidence suggests that this network is not just part of a sub-culture within society, but that it literally permeates all aspects of it, & is therefore, part of the mainstream. As I'll demonstrate, this has happened before. The network is the creation of supra-governmental Think Tanks, which are made up of people of tremendous wealth. These Think Tanks manipulate your government like a puppet. So, in essence, these wealthy individuals control your streets.

The public front portion of the program currently appears to emanate from a Department of Homeland Security initiative, known as, Citizen Corps. It is partnered with a National Neighborhood Watch program called, USAonWatch, which conducts citizen patrols. It is directed by FEMA, the FBI, & the National Sheriffs' Association. The public front is supported by individuals & groups of informants, that have no official ties to any state organization, & is also run by the FBI & other federal agencies. These federal agencies work directly with local governments to coordinate the activities of this colossal network. Other countries apparently have similar ones.

The citizen patrols (Gang Stalking) are done under the guise of keeping an eye on internal threats to state security & cleaning up neighborhoods. As I'll demonstrate, this is exactly what the informant networks in East Germany & Russia were told when they were recruited into these state-sponsored programs. These are essentially global Psychological Warfare operations, done with the support of the civilian population. On the neighborhood level, despite claims of patriotism, the main reasons for their participation are empowerment & adventure.

Now he does not blame any one groups, he just says that this is a part of the society itself. I really don't think people read the more up to date sites I think everyone just goes to youtube and then comes back here and gives commentary.

Originally posted by stikkinikki


This is what I was trying to say. Here is a website put up to forward this paranoia: www.gangstalkingworld.com...

A quote from the website:

It called Gang Stalking, because groups of community Spies/Snitches organise to stalk and monitor targets 24/7.

[edit on 8/15/08 by stikkinikki]

There is a lot of good information on the internet. I think if you do the actual reading.

From the same website.

www.gangstalkingworld.com...

Covert human intelligence sources


A recent article came out in the London Telegraph, saying that Children as young as 8 are being employed by the state as “Covert human intelligence sources” aka Snitches. Targeted Individuals often complain that the harassment is being perpetrated by all members of the community including children.

Children are being hired and used by the government to spy on their neighbors in the Uk. and "being encouraged to photograph or video neighbors guilty of dog fouling, littering or "bin crimes" The article says there are "hundreds of Junior Streetwatchers, aged 8-10 years old, who are trained to identify and report enviro-crime issues such as graffiti and fly-tipping." The adult spies according to authorities are recruited via newspaper ads.


"Other local authorities recruit adult volunteers through advertisements in local newspapers, with at least 4,841 people already patrolling the streets in their spare time.

Some are assigned James Bond-style code numbers, which they use instead of their real names when they ring a special informer's hotline.

This escalation in Britain's growing surveillance state follows an outcry about the way councils are using powers originally designed to combat terrorism and organised crime to spy on residents. In one case, a family was followed by council staff for almost three weeks after being wrongly accused of breaking rules on school catchment areas." 1

They are following people with covert investigations for breaking rules, anti-social behaviours, etc. Then you wonder why people say they are being stalked and people are harassing and trying to set them up?

If you upset a neighbour who is one of these home owner commities or citizen groups, you can get a covert investigation opened on you. Then you could be followed around for months or years. Also they can use intrusive investigations.

Regulation of Investigatory Powers


Regulation of Investigatory Powers is a United Kingdom law, which enables public bodies to carry out investigations and surveillance on individuals. Authorities can use directed surveillance or intrusive surveillance for months or years. These types of operations often employ “covert human intelligence sources’. Recently these laws were abused by using them to spy on families for anti-social behaviours and noise complaints.


"Directed surveillance’ is covert surveillance of individuals during a specific but non-intrusive investigation’ (our emphasis). Surveillance is covert where it is carried out in such a way to ensure that those targeted are unaware that it is taking place (cl.25(8)). ‘Surveillance’ is defined as including any monitoring, observing and listening to persons, their movements, conversations or other activities or communications. It also includes any recording of such activity and surveillance by or with assistance of a device."

" Intrusive surveillance’ is defined as covert surveillance in relation to anything taking place on residential premises or a private vehicle. It may be carried out either by a person or device inside residential premises or a private vehicle or by a device placed outside" 7

[edit on 20-9-2008 by Harassment101]

Originally posted by Harassment101
There is a lot of good information on the internet. I think if you do the actual reading.

I prefer to do my reading from independent sources. Who is to say "gang stalking world" isn't full of people suffering from paranoia and schizophrenia - particularly when gang stalking fits the symptoms of these mental health issues?

There is real stalking going on, but its not "gang" stalking. A UK report found that 2.9% of the population claimed they suffered from a very broad definition of stalking (much broader than gang stalking), and of those,

The majority (79%) of incidents involved only one perpetrator.

Source: www.neiladdison.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk...

So of the 2.9% of people who claim to be subject to stalking, only around 21% involve more than one person.

Gang stalking - at least how its used by sites like "gang stalking world" - does not exist. There are two possibilities: (1) there is a massive, international network of professional gang stalkers who are coordinating stalking on some individuals and "hire" everyone from children to the elderly in every profession, or (2) some individuals are suffering from paranoid mental health issues. I'm going to go with the simpler of the two.


[edit on 20-9-2008 by LowLevelMason]

One thing i know organised stalking by authorities in uk is real. I had to put up it, for around 16 years, where periods where very bad. The personal stalking it not as bad now, but like i said, it was very bad at times.

For anyone who thinks its bull, do you think people following you 50 miles from london to milton keynes, every day is not organised stalking. Also these people should never know anything about my life.

For anyone who thinks its bull, my family know its going on too, so there is more than my word for it.

So thread starter is correct organised stalking by the authorities goes on. Its not what you know in this world, but who you know. If you upset the wrong person at the wrong time, you may too be put on these lists. And i say again, this stalking is either organised by police or government in some way, and they desperately tried to get me to commit some crime, or commit suicide.

But at least i have the proof of what the bastards did, and the authorities cannot really do much. Organised stalking is real, full stop, in uk, and many other things.

[edit on 9/20/2008 by andy1033]

[edit on 9/20/2008 by andy1033]

Originally posted by andy1033
One thing i know organised stalking by authorities in uk is real. I had to put up it, for around 16 years, where periods where very bad. The personal stalking it not as bad now, but like i said, it was very bad at times.

Can you explain to me how it is that someone is going to be "gang stalked" for 16 years? Who is paying for all this? What have you done that would be worth spending that much money to harass you? Why didn't they use 1/10th of that to just arrange for an 'accident' if you were such a problem?

Originally posted by andy1033
For anyone who thinks it bull, do you think people following you 50 miles from london to milton keynes, every day is not organised stalking. Also these people should never know anything about my life.

Um, the easy answer would be that they aren't stalking you and are people on the same commute as you. I have a long commute and I see the same cars/same people all the time. Not because they are stalking me - but because we all live in the same area and are using the same roads to go to the same city at the same time.

Originally posted by andy1033
So thread starter is correct organised stalking by the authorities goes on. Its not what you know in this world, but who you know. If you upset the wrong person at the wrong time, you may too be put on these lists. And i say again, this stalking is either organised by police or government in some way, and they desperately tried to get me to commit some crime, or commit suicide.

I doubt it. This interested me and I spent about 2 hours looking for 1 ounce of proof on all these "gang stalking" websites and have yet to find anything that would remotely serve as such. No one can seem to figure out exactly how it is that this massive conspiracy is going on and yet no one can provide a "gang stalker" professional to tell us how its done by showing us CONCRETE EVIDENCE - like the checks from the people telling them to do the gang stalking. You mean to tell me there are so many people involved in this, and yet no one knows who is ordering it or where the money is coming from?

Originally posted by andy1033
But at least i have the proof of what the bastards did, and the authorities cannot really do much. Organised stalking is real, full stop, in uk, and many other things.

So why don't you post the proof? All evidence I've seen so far says organized stalking is not real, full stop.

Originally posted by LowLevelMason

Originally posted by andy1033
For anyone who thinks it bull, do you think people following you 50 miles from london to milton keynes, every day is not organised stalking. Also these people should never know anything about my life.

Um, the easy answer would be that they aren't stalking you and are people on the same commute as you. I have a long commute and I see the same cars/same people all the time. Not because they are stalking me - but because we all live in the same area and are using the same roads to go to the same city at the same time.

I worked on the building of a shopping center in milton keynes, also my dad worked there. The person for some nutty reason, was working in the canteen. So we both live near each other, but some how we end up working in a job 50 miles from london. My dad spoke this person, while they where there, organising there haressment. I just ignored it, and just tried to do my job, but after 10 weeks i left. I do not want to give all details.

This is proof organised stalking exists period. Imagine what chance you have of 2 people living near each other, and you goto work 50 miles away. Then this person who is organising this haressment is working in the canteen.

So explain that, remember my family is there as proof. These crazies came to every job i worked in, spreading there looney sh*t.

If you have seen what i have been through since i left school, you would know it would have to have been some sort of organised stalking, as how would they know where i worked. This is not fantasy, read above, working 50 miles away and people show up working in exact job as you. This is what you call organised stalking, to drive you up the wall.

I can give you more examples, but i would say that this above is what you would call an absolute(ABSOLUTE, undertsand this word do you?) fact that it is real. Organised stalking in uk, is fact, i feel sorry for any one that has to put up with what i had too and still do. But when you have people saying it is not real, when you have lived it, it is really annoying.

[edit on 9/20/2008 by andy1033]

The police forces here in the Netherlands where telling on tv one day that they had some kind of stalking program to show certain criminals that they where beeing watched.
They clearly spoke about this themselves on this TV program.
Examples they gave was, keeping a patrol car parked in the street a lot, ringing the door for a visit a couple of times a week, and stalking them is social places.
Nothing as extreme as the OP.
But i can see that it could be real.

I have to say do, that believing you are a victem of this kind of stalking is quite dangerous for your mental health so you better be very sure before you go down that road.
Because it could be extreme paranoia.