Obama: "Under my watch, NASA will inspire the world once again." + McCain position

No matter where one stands on the candidates this election year, more funding, a long term vision, and greater ambition for NASA is good news for everyone.

Sen. Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic candidate for president, held a town hall meeting near the Kennedy Space Center today and vowed strong support for NASA, saying he favors at least one shuttle flight beyond the 10 missions left on the agency's manifest. Obama also said he would work to close the gap between the end of shuttle operations in 2010 and the debut of the Orion spacecraft that will replace it and said earlier reports that he would divert money from NASA's next manned spacecraft to education were unfounded.

. . . "And to help formulate this vision, I'm going to re-establish the national aeronautics and space council so we can develop a plan to explore the solar system, a plan that involves both human and robotic missions, enlist both international partners and the private sector. And as America leads the world in the long-term exploration of the moon and Mars and beyond . . .


spaceflightnow.com

Of course this might be the usual political posturing. Nevertheless at least we now have Mr. Obama on record on this issue.

By the way this issue seems to straddle both "space exploration" and "decision 2008". So please move it if you think it's in the wrong place.


[edit on 8/12/2008 by schrodingers dog]

[edit on 8/13/2008 by schrodingers dog]

I managed to find a video copy of the above mentioned speech:

blog.wired.com

The more I think of it the more I think this is more politics than space exploration. Oh well.

[edit on 8/12/2008 by schrodingers dog]

it's one thing to say, and another thing to do. i'd like to know his voting record in regards to nasa appropriations and if that supports his claim. if so we may just have a bright future in hand. if not....well it's not the first time a candidate has lied about intentions.










edit to fix grammatical error

[edit on 12-8-2008 by optimus primal]

This information also came out today:

Debate To Highlight Candidates' Views On Space Exploration

Senators John McCain and Barack Obama will send representatives to a space policy debate this week.

The presidential candidates' representatives will meet Thursday to discuss how their administrations will fund, prioritize, and advance space policy over the next several years.

informationweek.com

I wasn't even aware there was a Mars Society

[edit on 8/12/2008 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
The more I think of it the more I think this is more politics than space exploration. Oh well.

I couldn't agree more. Who thinks a democrat (or any politician, for that matter) would stroll into a town to give a speech to a bunch of unionized workers telling them that he's going to cut their jobs out from under them in his administration? Who thinks a politician would promise to do the former while talking to every other group (especially unionized groups) who wants that government money for themselves and then suddenly change message briefly for the group he's planning to undercut? Yeah, that's what I think too. I see this same strategy every election cycle whenever a politician is trying to get union votes and money. Kerry did the exact same thing in '04. Personally I believe Obama when he says he plans to indefinately delay a return to the moon, and I see nothing in this statement that directly refutes that promise. He chose his words very carefully. He won't divert money from the "spacecraft" to education, but he said nothing about diverting money from the Ares V unmanned heavy lifter, which is critical to any missions that want to go beyond earth orbit. He'll cut that part and leave america with half of a program, which will be a dismal failure worse than the shuttle doomed to do nothing but shuttle passengers to and from ISS for its entire life.

I don't see how ditching a mostly reusable vehicle with good payload capacity in favor of a mostly discarded capsule with no payload capacity will make NASA inspirational again, especially if said capsule isn't even going to leave earth orbit.

Originally posted by optimus primal
if not....well it's not the first time a candidate has lied about intentions.

He didn't lie... technically. He just told the truth "creatively." All he said is he won't divert funding from the new manned spacecraft... and he doesn't have to in order to cut constellation off at the knees. All he has to do is cancel the development of the unmanned Ares V heavy lifter - no more moon shot, no more mars mission. Instead we'll have exchanged a bunch of canceled robotic missions in order to get a less capable manned capsule to service the ISS well past its intended lifespan.

The sad fact is that the constellation program is guaranteed not to land a man on the moon until after the next president - it's more than 8 years away, and so Obama knows he won't be around to get the political gold of returning to the moon. He'll only be facing the risk and responsibility of the early test flights to prepare for the big moment to occur during the next president's term, something he's obviously not willing to do.

There is what seems to be a good breakdown analysis of his speech at thespacereview.com

The conventional wisdom coming out of the speech was that Obama had made a 180-degree shift in his space policy. The Sentinel called it a “dramatic reversal” while Florida Today acknowledged that Obama had “changed an earlier position”. The campaign of his opponent in the general election, Republican John McCain, seized on the apparent reversal in a statement of its own. “Barack Obama once again demonstrated that his words really don't matter,” the statement read. Regarding delaying Constellation, “that is what he proposed and has been saying for months.”

But is that really the case? Did Obama have a sudden change of heart regarding Constellation in particular and space policy in general, which he chose to reveal in Florida this month? A closer look at the records suggests something else: a much earlier, and more gradual, shift in policy by the Obama campaign, which arguably started backtracking from the initial plan to delay Constellation as little as a month after the release of the white paper. The Titusville speech, then, became an opportunity to reconcile the inconsistencies in the campaign’s statements on the issue, although his statements still leave plenty of unanswered questions about what a President Obama would do in the realm of civil space.

Actually, this is a major policy change from Obama, considering he had previously advocated delaying Constellation.

It's a welcome change and eliminates one of the few reservations I've had about supporting him.

Arguing about the Shuttle is pointless, it's going to be retired no matter who becomes President, it's a marvelous machine but a fabulously inefficient economic disaster.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I have to first commend you for a very well made thread. It seems to have taken wings from the Op...

Interesting how I first thought that Obama just said what he did because he was addressing a crowd near Kennedy, but now I am looking very much forward to the debate between he and McCain.

reply to post by antar


Thanks Antar for the kind words.

The official Obama campaign release:

Over the decades, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) has embodied the adventurous spirit that lifted this nation to greatness and inspired people around the world. Barack Obama believes that the United States needs a strong space program to help maintain its superiority not only in space, but also here on earth in the realms of education, technology, and national security. Over the years, NASA technology has been applied to improve everything from computers and medical technology to baby formula and automobiles. Work done at NASA, whether here on earth or in outer space, impacts the daily lives of all Americans.

Develop the Next-Generation of Space Vehicles: The retirement of the Space Shuttle in 2010 will leave the United States without manned spaceflight capability until the introduction of the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) carried by the Ares I Launch Vehicle. As president, Obama will support the development of this vital new platform to ensure that the United States' reliance on foreign space capabilities is limited to the minimum possible time period. The CEV will be the backbone of future missions, and is being designed with technology that is already proven and available.

Complete the International Space Station: The International Space Station is an example of what we can accomplish through international cooperation. Barack Obama is committed to the completion of the International Space Station.

Continue Unmanned Missions: Robotic missions provide a level of endurance and cost-effectiveness that is unsurpassed. The Voyager probes, launched in the 1970s, are still sending back data beyond our solar system. Closer to home, the Spirit and Opportunity rovers have been exploring the surface of Mars for more than 1,300 days, 14 times longer than their intended mission length. Along with Earth-orbiting platforms like the Hubble Space Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, unmanned missions have yielded some of the greatest scientific discoveries of the last century. Barack Obama is committed to a bold array of robotic missions that will expand our knowledge of the solar system and lay the foundations for further manned exploration.

Monitor the Forces and Effects of Climate Change: Barack Obama has proposed bold initiatives to put America on the path to stop global climate change. His administration will set standards based on rigorous scientific inquiry that, in turn, cannot take place without a capable space program. The task of researching and understanding the forces that affect our home planet will require a constellation of climate monitoring space platforms. As president, Obama will ensure that NASA has the funding necessary to play its part in the fight against global climate change.

Support Scientific Research: In the past, government funding for scientific research has yielded innovations that have improved the landscape of American life, technologies like the Internet, digital photography, bar codes, Global Positioning System technology, laser surgery, and chemotherapy. Today, we face a new set of challenges, yet the United States is losing its scientific dominance. Over the last three decades, federal funding for the physical, mathematical and engineering sciences has declined at a time when other countries are substantially increasing their own research budgets. Barack Obama believes federally funded scientific research should play an important role in advancing science and technology in the classroom and in the lab. He will work to diversify the makeup of the scientific community and provide federal research programs a much- needed infusion of funds.

Maintain Surveillance to Strengthen National Security: Orbiting surveillance satellites provide a vital way to ensure compliance with non-proliferation treaties and monitor emerging threats. For example, nuclear facility construction in North Korea and Iran can be closely monitored from above without the challenges faced by weapons inspectors on the ground. Satellites can be further used in the effort to secure loose nuclear weapons and materials around the world, an effort which Barack Obama has promoted aggressively in the U.S. Senate.

Keep Weapons out of Space: China's successful test of an anti-satellite missile in January 2007 signaled a potential new arms race in space. Barack Obama does not support the stationing of any weapons in space. He believes the international community must address the issue of space weaponization head-on and enter into a serious dialogue with Russia, China and other nations to stop this slow slide into a new battlefield.

Strengthen Math and Science Education: Fifty years after Sputnik, science and math education in American schools is facing a crisis. As the Gathering Storm report concluded, "danger exists that Americans may not know enough about science, technology or mathematics to contribute significantly to, or fully benefit from, the knowledge-based economy that is already taking shape around us." Barack Obama will make math and science education a national priority, and provide our schools with the tools to educate 21st-Century learners.

Recruit High-Quality Math and Science Teachers: Barack Obama's will establish a Teaching Service Scholarship program to recruit an army of new teachers. These scholarships will prioritize recruiting math, science and technology degree graduates. Obama will create Teacher Residency Programs to train teachers using mentorship, graduate study and hands-on training to develop 30,000 teachers a year, providing additional teachers in math and science. In addition, Obama will devote $100 million a year to Professional Development Schools to help new teachers, or veteran teacher needing to hone their skills, learn from professionals in the field. Professional Development Schools will partner universities with school sites that exhibit state-of-the-art practices and train new teachers in the classrooms of expert teachers while they are completing coursework.

Enhanced Science Instruction: Barack Obama will work with governors to create flexible and workable systems for the states to achieve the goal of ensuring all children have access to strong a science curriculum at all grade levels. Obama will also support state efforts to make science education a priority at the pre-K level.
Improve and Prioritize Science Assessments: Science assessments need to do more than test facts and concepts. They need to use a range of measures to test inquiry and higher-order thinking skills including inference, logic, data analysis and interpretation, forming questions, and communication. Barack Obama will work with governors and educators to ensure that state assessments measure these skills.

spaceref.com

[edit on 8/13/2008 by schrodingers dog]

For the sake of equality I found a synopsis of McCain's space strategy:

To start off, here are the bullet points at the end that describe what McCain would do if elected:

Ensure that space exploration is top priority and that the U.S. remains a leader;

Commit to funding the NASA Constellation program to ensure it has the resources it needs to begin a new era of human space exploration.

Review and explore all options to ensure U.S. access to space by minimizing the gap between the termination of the Space Shuttle and the availability of its replacement vehicle;

Ensure the national space workforce is maintained and fully utilized; Complete construction of the ISS National Laboratory;

Seek to maximize the research capability and commercialization possibilities of the ISS National Laboratory;

Maintain infrastructure investments in Earth-monitoring satellites and support systems;

Seek to maintain the nation’s space infrastructure;

Prevent wasteful earmarks from diverting precious resources from critical scientific research;

and Ensure adequate investments in aeronautics research.

spacepolitics.com

I found the full release from the McCain camp:

America's Space Program

"Let us now embark upon this great journey into the stars to find whatever may await us."

-John McCain

John McCain: For the past 50 years, space activities have contributed greatly to US scientific discovery, national security, economic development, and national innovation, pride and power (the ultimate example of which was the U.S. victory over the Soviets in the race to the moon). Spurred on by the Soviet Union's launch of Sputnik, the world's first satellite, and the concern that the U.S was falling behind in science and technology, U.S. policymakers enacted several policy actions to firmly establish the U.S. dominance in science and technology. Among them were the establishment of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the national Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), increased research funding, and a reformulation of the nation's science and technology education system.

Today, more than 50 years after Sputnik, the US faces a very different world. The end of the Cold War and the space race has greatly reduced the profile of space exploration as a point of national pride and an emblem of U.S. power and thus created some degree of "mission-rut" for NASA. At the same time, the scientific community views the use of space as an important observation platform for advancing science by increasing our understanding of the solar system and the universe. In addition, our recent comprehension of the Earth's changing climate is based on data that we have received from our weather and Earth observation satellites. Much of our communications infrastructure is dependent upon space based assets that are essential to the quality of our everyday lives and the economy.

China, Russia, India, Japan and Europe are all active players in space exploration. Both Japan and China launched robotic lunar orbiters in 2007. India is planning to launch a lunar orbiter later this year. The European Space Agency (ESA) is looking into a moon-lander, but is more focused on Mars. China also is actively pursuing a manned space program and, in 2003, became only the third country after the USSR and the US to demonstrate the capability to send man to space. China is developing plans for a manned lunar mission in the next decade and the establishment of a lunar base after 2020.

Activity within the commercial sector continues to increase beyond the traditional role of launching satellites. In 2007, the X-Prize Foundation announced a prize of $30 million in a global competition to build the first robotic rover capable of landing on the Moon. Several companies are planning to develop and build spacecraft for space tourism.

Senator McCain understands the importance of investments in key industries such as space to the future of our national security, environmental sustainability, economic competitiveness, and national pride as a technological leader. Although the general view in the research community is that human exploration is not an efficient way to increase scientific discoveries given the expense and logistical limitations, the role of manned space flight goes well beyond the issue of scientific discovery and is reflection of national power and pride.

History provides some guide to this. In 1971, when the Nixon Administration was looking at canceling the Apollo program and not approving the development of the Space Shuttle - then Office of Management and Budget Deputy Director Casper Weinberger stated that such a policy: "would be confirming in some respects a belief that I fear is gaining credence at home and abroad: That our best years are behind us, that we are turning inward, reducing our defense commitments, and voluntarily starting to give up our super-power status and our desire to maintain world superiority." Three and a half decades later this seems equally valid, if not more so given the increased number of countries that are making significant investments in space.

John McCain has been involved in a number of efforts to improve America's scientific prowess within the space arena. As Chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, Senator McCain played a major role in legislation to provide funding for space exploration (manned and unmanned), space science, Earth science, and aeronautics research. He also sponsored legislation to support the up and coming commercial space industry, and led the Senate's efforts to implement improvements to NASA after the Columbia accident. Senator McCain has also spearheaded efforts to control costs at NASA and promote a space exploration agenda based on sound management, safe practices, and fiscal responsibility.

Current U.S. space operations policy commits the U.S. to completing the International Space Station (ISS) by 2010 and then terminating the Space Shuttle flights, with the completion of the ISS. The NASA vision for space exploration calls for sending a robotic lunar lander to the Moon in 2008/2009 time period to begin searching for potential base sites and for development and deployment of a new manned space craft for lunar missions. The current policy also calls for new vehicles (referred to as the Orion crew vehicle and the Ares launch vehicle) to be ready for Earth orbit by 2015 and lunar landing by 2020 with an eventual mission to Mars.

As President, John McCain will --

Ensure that space exploration is top priority and that the U.S. remains a leader;

Commit to funding the NASA Constellation program to ensure it has the resources it needs to begin a new era of human space exploration.

Review and explore all options to ensure U.S. access to space by minimizing the gap between the termination of the Space Shuttle and the availability of its replacement vehicle;

Ensure the national space workforce is maintained and fully utilized; Complete construction of the ISS National Laboratory;

Seek to maximize the research capability and commercialization possibilities of the ISS National Laboratory;

Maintain infrastructure investments in Earth-monitoring satellites and support systems;

Seek to maintain the nation's space infrastructure;

Prevent wasteful earmarks from diverting precious resources from critical scientific research;

and Ensure adequate investments in aeronautics research.

johnmccain.com

I know this is a lot of "stuff" to read through but I believe this is an important issue.

It would be a great shame if space exploration did stop in 2010.
Judging by what both candidates are saying, they are trying to stop that happening and keep the people in jobs.
They both seem extremely passionate about space exploration and NASA for that matter and i hope they keep their word.

As you say OP, it could just be the usual posturing before the elections but i would hope not....although i wouldn't be suprised.

In the U.K. Tony Blair promised people a Referendum on the E.U. policy and us joining europe....Gordon Brown promised people he would fulfill Blairs promise and to this day it hasn't happened.
It was changed to the lisbon treaty and now we (it seems) don't have a say.

I know this is nothing to do with the OP, but the point is the same, people (candidates) will tell you and sell you anything for votes and then just change their mind and ignore the people.

As you said schrodinger, you have Obama on record saying it, but does that mean he has to do it in the states?
Or is it like the UK where the politicians just change their mind and people just have to accept it.


We had 1,000,000 people march against the war (Iraq) in london and it did nothing.


I just hope for the sake of NASA and it's employees that these guys are not just paying lip service to NASA/space exploration.

reply to post by blupblup


Obviously these declarations from both men are to be taken within the context of election year promises.
However the Obama manifesto seems to be a little more specific and had en emphasis on education which McCain's plan seems to lack.

This might sound a little bit off topic. I used to gamble. I remember the sick to my stomach feeling born from losing more than I could afford, thinking of all the things I could have paid for or bought with that money. I've been getting that feeling a lot lately thinking of all the needs and dreams we could have funded if it wasn't for this damn war.
I fear that space exploration and all the above promises will be unfeasible as a direct result.

Originally posted by xmotex
Actually, this is a major policy change from Obama, considering he had previously advocated delaying Constellation.

It's a welcome change and eliminates one of the few reservations I've had about supporting him.

Arguing about the Shuttle is pointless, it's going to be retired no matter who becomes President, it's a marvelous machine but a fabulously inefficient economic disaster.

I won't bring up my many other reservations about obama as it is outside the topic, but I don't buy this as a genuine policy change for him for reasons I outlined above. I was in titusville when he gave this speech and I will not believe it really means he truly supports a return to the moon until he flat out says he changed his mind will now promise to give full funding to Ares V. Ares I (the manned spacecraft he alluded to) he has always supported, and that's all I see this as a confirmation of.

As for the shuttle, I'm not arguing that we should retain the shuttle, I'm arguing that whatever replaces it must be a worthy successor capable of surpassing its accomplishments. Ares I, the Orion, is incapable of doing that on its own without the development of the unmanned Ares V heavy lifter.

reply to post by ngchunter


You seem well versed in this topic.
My question might be stupid, but isn't the Orion a similar vehicle to ESA's Ariane?

Ariane

Orion

They even sound the same.

[edit on 8/13/2008 by schrodingers dog]

You guys need to fix your budget before going to the moon methinks. That little(trillion $) sight seeing trip to Iraq is gonna cost you guys big time. We coudl've had a functional moon base for that kind of scratch...... if not habitable and permenant by now.....

Originally posted by sardion2000
You guys need to fix your budget before going to the moon methinks. That little(trillion $) sight seeing trip to Iraq is gonna cost you guys big time. We coudl've had a functional moon base for that kind of scratch...... if not habitable and permenant by now.....

I think I might have mentioned that a couple of posts ago.
But never mind.
By the way, I don't know where you're from but, can we borrow some money?

What?

Obama said he wanted to cut NASA funding and extend the gap!


Obama: cut Constellation to pay for education

Obama still talking about using NASA to fund education

etc.

I can find more if you want, but I'm sure you remember this.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by Johnmike]

reply to post by Johnmike


Your sources are at least as old as January.

He apparently has "adjusted" his position to what it is today. Please don't jump on this fact, both candidates have done this on many issues.