Marjoe Gortner: How False Prophets Work

Here is a video of former child-preacher Marjoe Gortner. (forgive me I'm having trouble with embedding it right now:madHe was a celebrity in the 50s and 60s, but then went away from the faith. In this video he explains the techniques he would use in his preaching to elicite the crowd's responses.

I notice that many preachers seem to use the techniques he describes to some extent or another, yet many of them are very sincere men of God.

After watching this video, I began to wonder, what should be the litmus test for determining whether a preacher is doing God's will, or is a false prophet? I don't think "IF he follows the Bible" is a good answer, because one can go through all the motions of doing so with only the desire for financial or power gain. Besides that, there are differing opinions on how to follow the Bible.

I ask this because I think MANY of the "Christian" leaders who are held in high regard (Thing Haggard, Swagard, ect.) are in fact false prophets if I may borrow the label. I see too many people blow them off and say "God will take care of them." I do not like this because even so, their policies, view, sermons, ect. are what many Christians follow. The corruption can be passed down from the head.

So, let's talk about false prophets!

I think the biggest one of all, is Pastor Benny Hinn. He claims to do things that only Jesus is supposed to be able to do....oh yeah, and he is a fraud.

First, to call one a True Prophet one must believe there is such a thing.

Assuming there are True Prophets out there, I would hypothesize that the level of Truth is inversely proportionate to their bank accounts.


Edit per OP's request: Modify my hypothesis to state "personal bank account and/or funds directly accessible by the prophet."?

[edit on 12-8-2008 by Phage]

Here's how you tell a false prophet:

A real one isn't going to ask for your money. If a self-styled "holy man" asks for and needs your money, then they worship Greed, not God.

Very simple.

reply to post by MockedUnicorn


Quite honestly I think the Pope has Benny Hinn beat big time. Benny Hinn is definetly on the list though.

Originally posted by Phage

First, to call one a True Prophet one must believe there is such a thing.

Assuming there are True Prophets out there, I would hypothesize that the level of Truth is inversely proportionate to their bank accounts.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Here's how you tell a false prophet:

A real one isn't going to ask for your money. If a self-styled "holy man" asks for and needs your money, then they worship Greed, not God.

Very simple.

That sounds like a good idea, except for the counter-argument that when you're giving it's a part of your tithe.

Originally posted by JesterMan
reply to post by MockedUnicorn

 

Quite honestly I think the Pope has Benny Hinn beat big time. Benny Hinn is definetly on the list though.

I think it's pointless to try to keep score.

These men are liars, there is probably so much we don't know.

Only God know for sure.

Originally posted by asmeone2

Originally posted by Phage

First, to call one a True Prophet one must believe there is such a thing.

Assuming there are True Prophets out there, I would hypothesize that the level of Truth is inversely proportionate to their bank accounts.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Here's how you tell a false prophet:

A real one isn't going to ask for your money. If a self-styled "holy man" asks for and needs your money, then they worship Greed, not God.

Very simple.

That sounds like a good idea, except for the counter-argument that when you're giving it's a part of your tithe.

I believe that you shouldnt tithe to People or Churches these days because of the greed involved with the people in control of the church accounts. I DO however believe in making a point to "tithe" by giving the same ammount to someone in need who may or may not ask for it. That is God's will and Jesus's number one commandment to the people. To love your brother as you love your self.

~MU

reply to post by asmeone2


Can I modify my hypothesis to state "personal bank account and/or funds directly accessible by the prophet."?

I believe that you shouldnt tithe to People or Churches these days because of the greed involved with the people in control of the church accounts. I DO however believe in making a point to "tithe" by giving the same ammount to someone in need who may or may not ask for it. That is God's will and Jesus's number one commandment to the people. To love your brother as you love your self.

~MU

Oh yes, I agree with you, but for most people in church, they think that giving a tithe is part of their duty to support/expand the churhc. So I don't think the "if he asks for mony" is a good test.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by asmeone2

 

Can I modify my hypothesis to state "personal bank account and/or funds directly accessible by the prophet."?

You can go click the edit button and add that.

Originally posted by asmeone2

I believe that you shouldnt tithe to People or Churches these days because of the greed involved with the people in control of the church accounts. I DO however believe in making a point to "tithe" by giving the same ammount to someone in need who may or may not ask for it. That is God's will and Jesus's number one commandment to the people. To love your brother as you love your self.

~MU

Oh yes, I agree with you, but for most people in church, they think that giving a tithe is part of their duty to support/expand the churhc. So I don't think the "if he asks for mony" is a good test.

I didnt mean "only give money to those who ask for it" I meant, using the same money to support programs that help people in need. There are many small organisations around my town where you can give donations to less fortunate families for their electric bills, food, etc.

I dont think giving 10% of your money to a church who "needs" a new sports complex or coffee bar is helping to spread God's word. It only increases the amount of people coming to give more money to the church.
There are churches in my town who are small, pass around a collection plate and REALLY help people. They go fix up people's houses on the weekends and give homeless warm meals. THere are also these expansionist Mega-Ultra churches in my town, one in particular (the largest) who MAKES every member sign a CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT to give 10% of your money. AND THEY ASK FOR VERIFICATION OF WAGES!

Meanwhile, they are constantly having church parties and fireworks displays that could very well be food in peoples bellies that couldnt afford them. They also have a STARBUCKS in the church and ATMs in the church.

~MU

THere are also these expansionist Mega-Ultra churches in my town, one in particular (the largest) who MAKES every member sign a CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT to give 10% of your money. AND THEY ASK FOR VERIFICATION OF WAGES!

It's disgusting

My parents go to a megachurch like that.

Until recently they prided themselves on never going into debt for their new buildings. They just built a huge, and I mean stadium-size, new building, and that apparently put them in debt.

I asked why they were going back on what had been one of their fundamental tenants, and they said, "We prayed about it, God told us to."

Here's how Moses was instructed by God to recognize them:

The only bible reference I am aware of related to this is Deut 18.22:

In the New KJ Translation:

"when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."

My Jewish study bible says:

"if the prophet speaks in the name of the Lord and the oracle does not come true, that oracle was not spoken by the Lord; the prophet has uttered it presumptuously: do not stand in dread of him."


So, I take it that: 1) a prophet has to predict an event in the future, and 2) that something has to be verifiable and it can't be obvious. Notice that this precludes predicting features of the earth, the sun rising in the morning, or death since that comes to everyone, etc. So, in my mind it has to have an action and time component. For instance, a prophet might predict that Jesus will return on a future Day of Atonement without referencing a specific one. A prophet might predict that the sun will stop in the middle of the sky on such and such a date and we'll all lose 3 hours worldwide, etc.

The flim flam artists dominating religious shows are just that and just about everyone can recognize the difference between a preacher (who isn't necessarily a prophet) and a self-styled prophet. I agree with the consensus that Prophets of God are not concerned with wealth because they would know that it provides a conflict of interest.

My $0.02.

If a prophet claims to speak for Jesus or God then what the prophet says should align with the Word of God in the Bible. If a prophet says something that contradicts the Word of God then you can assume that the prophet is not speaking for God and is, rather, leading people away from the Word of God. A prophet should lead us to the Word of God. If what a prophets says leads us away from the Word of God then we can assume that the prophet is false or antichrist. The Bible is our compass for discerning all things.

I saw Benny Hinn preach once. He spoke about bizarre things that either directly contradicted the Bible or weren't even in the Bible. The Catholic Church and the Church of England along with many other "christian" religions also directly contradict the Bible. We must never depend on men or organizations or institutions of men to interpret the Bible for us. We must read the book ourselves so that we are never deceived.



[edit on 14-8-2008 by checkers]

Originally posted by asmeone2
Here is a video of former child-preacher Marjoe Gortner... So, let's talk about false prophets!

This is so sad and disturbing. If it doesn't make you wretch, it at least makes you weep.

There are others:
* Anis Shorrosh
* Michael Woroniecki

I have been able to identify frauds because if they can't get something out of you (i.e. money or control) they either lose interest or condemn you. At least, that has been a pattern.

reply to post by ScienceDada


Michael Woroniecki likes to feign words of knowledge. I just recently heard from someone in the Denver area talking to him by phone mail and email .

Woroniecki had wanted to meet him while he was in town that week. Infact, there was a coincidence of the timeliness of the mail and his driving through that Woroniecki suggested was a sign from God When the contact finally agreed to meeting him, Mike cut him off and said he wasn't worthy, lol! The contact got irate and said it was his idea to begin with! This started an exchange of phone calls and arguments. Woroniecki was ticked.

Eventually, Mike called him back and apologized. I have no doubt this was because the contact confronted him with some harcore evidence and Mike wanted another shot at him. He could only do this by feigning relationship and setting him up again.

He said Mike continued to say "so you've had a birthday here recently? My oldest daughter is about the same age as you." This of course got the reaction that Mike wanted. Fear. "How did he know that? I didn't tell him that." The reaction he tries to fish for is that perhaps, he has some kind of metaphysical power or hotline to god. The contact grew concerned. "Why is this guy looking up hard to find info on me and suggesting that maybe I could relate with his daughter?"

I looked up this fellow by some information Mike had--his email address, and I found a Livejournal profile that had his birthdate. It wasn't difficult to find. It took me about two minutes. It was clear, Mike's "great power from God" was the internet.

What was really bizarre was the next day, a perfectly bald man looking the spitting image of Mr. Clean (Mike's deescription) goes riding by his house near Denver teh morning of when he was photographed at the Denver Natl Convention on 8/27. I asked him what the vehicle looked like. He said "a white truck." I told him that a year or two ago, Mike's family did own a white truck according to some people that worked with them in Las Vegas, but I can't say if they still own it. It really looks to me like this unstable Woroniecki went driving by his house in true psychopath fashion, learning where he lives to entertain some arrogant posture in his mind--"Don't tick me off--I know where you live."

I met Woroniecki back in the mid 80's and was deceived into thinking he was a prophet of God sent to declare the true gospel and expose the licentious grace of the churches. He love bombed me at first with many letters, but when he saw he couldn't get the things from me he was looking for after about 18 months, like a full emulation of his bitter hatered of the church, he started berating me like he did Andrea Yates.
I left him after 4 years when he began saing I was going to hell.

Nowadays, from my association with this contact, I learned he starts with one day of lovebombing, trust, giving you his email address and cell number--then the next contact he blasts you with the truth that you are headed for hell, that you are decieved and admittedly lost, even though the contact's admission was just some confusion over church doctrines--it hardly substantiates being "lost" in the full sense of going to hell, but that is just the "strain at a gnat swallow a camel" mentality of Mike Woroniecki.

pranalite(remove--antispam)*AT*aol*DOT*com

Originally posted by checkers
If a prophet claims to speak for Jesus or God then what the prophet says should align with the Word of God in the Bible. If a prophet says something that contradicts the Word of God then you can assume that the prophet is not speaking for God and is, rather, leading people away from the Word of God. A prophet should lead us to the Word of God. If what a prophets says leads us away from the Word of God then we can assume that the prophet is false or antichrist. The Bible is our compass for discerning all things.

I saw Benny Hinn preach once. He spoke about bizarre things that either directly contradicted the Bible or weren't even in the Bible. The Catholic Church and the Church of England along with many other "christian" religions also directly contradict the Bible. We must never depend on men or organizations or institutions of men to interpret the Bible for us. We must read the book ourselves so that we are never deceived.



[edit on 14-8-2008 by checkers]

Right, but what about the ones that DO line up with the Bible yet still fail? I've seen that as well.

reply to post by asmeone2


An up and coming false prophet that I knew in high school is Mike Bickle. He is with IHOP in Kansas City, Missouri. IHOP stands for "International House of Prayer." He gets his prophecies from dreams and interprets the Bible from his dreams. This is the way Jim Jones started out, so I hope Mikes followers start reading the Bible for themselves and find out that he is false! fellowshipofthe... martyrs.com