The Concept of "Free will" is a lie!!, page 2

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:01 AM

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What other choice is there? If you want to stay up perpetually, you don't really have the "freeedom" to do so. I mean, I guess you could but it wouldn't be wise. Again, your decision to sleep is a matter of considering consequence, not what you really WANT to do.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

JesterMan

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:02 AM

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Also, what about murderers and rapists? They choose to do the things that they do. If not then we should forgive them and set them free, after all it wasn't their decision.

Im sorry but there is no predetermined destiny that says this person is going to be a doctor and this person is going to rape children. That is a totally insane thing to believe.

eNumbra

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:02 AM

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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION
It is always "now". The only thing you can change is the future, which doesn't exist. The now cannot be changed.

Well, that's true. However, what happens in the future is often determined by what happens now.

So free will is a lie because the human race is not 100% made up of anarchic psychopaths who are utterly unpredictable.

Of course the future is determined by what happens now if the past were determined by the future then it'd be the future wouldn't it? Time still naturally moves in one direction doesn't it?

[edit on 12-8-2008 by eNumbra]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

What other choice is there? If you want to stay up perpetually, you don't really have the "freeedom" to do so. I mean, I guess you could but it wouldn't be wise. Again, your decision to sleep is a matter of considering consequence, not what you really WANT to do.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

Here's the problem, it's not a decision, your body will eventually force your sleep cycle.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by eNumbra]

SpeakerofTruth

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:03 AM

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Originally posted by JesterMan
Also, what about murderers and rapists? They choose to do the things that they do. If not then we should forgive them and set them free, after all it wasn't their decision.

Again, they were either predispositioned to do so thorugh upbringing or by experience.

eNumbra

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:04 AM

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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by JesterMan
Also, what about murderers and rapists? They choose to do the things that they do. If not then we should forgive them and set them free, after all it wasn't their decision.

Again, they were either predispositioned to do so thorugh upbringing or by experience.

Then we should punish their parents shouldn't we?

SpeakerofTruth

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:05 AM

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Originally posted by eNumbra

So free will is a lie because the human race is not 100% made up of anarchic psychopaths who are utterly unpredictable.

"Free will" is supposed to be the ability to do what he she wishes, not the ability to do what he/she has to do due to external influences.

JesterMan

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:05 AM

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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

This is not always the case. Sometimes people just snap and want to know what it is like to committ a crime.

SpeakerofTruth

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:07 AM

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Originally posted by eNumbra
Then we should punish their parents shouldn't we?

Some parents should definitely be punished, yes.

Anyway, it is not always a matter of upbringing, a lot of times criminal are predispostioned by personal experience to act as they do. For example, if someone hits you in the head, you are proned to hit them back, are you not. Now, are you hitting them because you really want to or because they hit you? Uh, yeah, an external influence... Thank ya.

eNumbra

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:08 AM

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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by eNumbra

So free will is a lie because the human race is not 100% made up of anarchic psychopaths who are utterly unpredictable.

"Free will" is supposed to be the ability to do what he she wishes, not the ability to do what he/she has to do due to external influences.

This is where I would say "One doesn't have to follow the crowd" but being a nonconformist is programmed too. It's circular logic, it defines itself with itself.

SpeakerofTruth

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:09 AM

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Originally posted by JesterMan
Sometimes people just snap and want to know what it is like to committ a crime.

True. So what is it that makes them "want to know what it's like to commit a crime?"

JesterMan

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:10 AM

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ce.

Then we should punish their parents shouldn't we?

No because after all they didnt choose how to raise their children. We should really just blame the universe. Thanks universe for the Unibomber!!!!

Johnmike

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by JesterMan
I tend to disagree. I just now clapped my hands for no reason at all, other than I felt like doing it.

And you have the reason why you did it, which was influenced by everything you've experienced and experienced at that moment.

SpeakerofTruth

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by JesterMan

No because after all they didnt choose how to raise their children. We should really just blame the universe. Thanks universe for the Unibomber!!!!

Typically, parents raise their children how they were raised... Again, conditioning.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

WEOPPOSEDECEPTION

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:16 AM
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If you can't change the now, since it's already here, how are you going to change the "future"?

SpeakerofTruth

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:16 AM
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Honestly, all I am saying is that the concept of "free will," as it is presently defined, should be seriousl examined. I mean, to me, there are just way to many holes in the concept.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

eNumbra

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by JesterMan

No because after all they didnt choose how to raise their children. We should really just blame the universe. Thanks universe for the Unibomber!!!!

Typically, parents raise their children how they were raised... Again, conditioning.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

Parents who were nothing but law-abiding citizens with children who grew up to be criminals.

Hitler wasn't necessarily raised to hate the Jews(was he? I know anti-semitism has always been popular here and there but were the Hitlers antisemitic around young Adolf?), he simply found them a convenient scapegoat for the problems of post-war Germany.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by eNumbra]

SpeakerofTruth

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION

I know that you are just being fecetious, but that is actually a very good question.

eNumbra

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:18 AM
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Edit: Cant delete own post.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by eNumbra]

JesterMan

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

couldn't tell you that. I have never had the urge to murder or rape someone. People still know the difference between right and wrong and we do have the ability to choose to do right. Some people just make the wrong decision.

I like to go hunting. Why? I grew up in the city with no game lands to do it in. No one in my family has ever been a hunter. None of my friends do it. One day I just decided that I was gonna take it up. It really was a pretty random thing. Just went out one day, bought a rifle and a hunting license and set out to kill me some Bambi? Wait a second.... THATS IT!!!!!! I saw Bambi when I was a kid and remembered when his mother got shot. Wow, I can't believe that I was ever so foolish to think that I could actually make my own decisions. Wait... this is where it gets tricky. If I cannot make my own decisions should I even be able to think???? Or do I think?? Maybe thinking is just a lie too??

Oh man I think my head is going to explode.
Too much new age thinking make JesterMan go CRAZZZZYYY!!!!

SpeakerofTruth

posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by eNumbra
Hitler wasn't necessarily raised to hate the Jews(was he? I know anti-semitism has always been popular here and there but were the Hitlers antisemitic around young Adolf?), he simply found them a convenient scapegoat for the problems of post-war Germany.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by eNumbra]

Hitler hated the Jews because they operated most of the businesses in Germany during the depression. While Germans starved in the streets, Jews lived high and mighty. Also, Hitler hated the Jews because he flunked out of a Jewish art school...
Again, external causes and circumstances.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]