People don't go to Hell, so there is no eternal torture

I see here that many people attack Christianity strictly because of "Hell." They don't want to praise a God that would send his creations to an evil place for eternal torture for simply not worshipping him. This is a big misconception stemming from the Roman Catholic Church (which is evil) where they purposely misinterpreted scripture and spread this lie throughout the world in order to create the exact effect that is going on today of people not wanting to worship God. Satan works through the Catholic Church to do whatever he can to keep as many people as possible from going to Heaven. This is his goal. Many false ideas have come from the Catholic Church, but this is one of the major ones. Think about it for a second. God created Angels with free will so that they could choose to worship him or not. He wanted them to worship him through love, not fear. This is the same with us humans. Also, if you would believe in the Bible, you would see that after the second coming of Jesus, there is a one thousand year period where Satan roams the Earth causing havoc. At the end of this thousand years is the Final Battle where Jesus returns to Earth and raises the dead that did not choose to be with Him, then rains fire down and destroys them all, including Satan. Now if Satan is dead, who runs Hell? This place where non-believers are to burn forever? The fact is nobody does because there is no Hell where humans go. When people die, they are simply asleep until the second coming. They don't even know they are dead. Those that do not get raised from the dead during the second coming to go to Heaven with Jesus are raised when he returns the thousand years later to be destroyed. There are several verses in the Bible that show this fact that the dead are simply asleep(some below). There are no relatives looking down on us, and there is no Mary Magdalene to pray to, they are ASLEEP. Once Satan and the non-believers are destroyed, they simply cease to exist. After this, the universe is to be perfect. But how would it be perfect if Satan and non-believers are still down in Hell doing evil things? It wouldn't be because there would always be the chance that Satan could get back to Earth and do bad things. In order for everything to be perfect, Satan and the others must not exist. Before attacking the fact of no Hell, please go to this link:remnantofgod.org...

Psalms 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
The Bible refers to death as sleep. During this dreamless sleep, "his thoughts perish," so, is it possible to affect the lives of others or carry on normal day to day activities in normal sleep? I think not. In the book of John we find a situation where Jesus Himself refers to the dead as being asleep.

John 11:11-14 ...Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
The disciples thought when Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping that he would be ok. So Jesus had to plainly say "Lazarus is dead."

Before going on, I must interject as to the main reason Jesus calls death "sleep" here. It is because He knows that everyone will awaken one day out of death as we awaken each morning from sleep. Some will awaken to receive eternal life, and others will awaken to be destroyed in eternal damnation.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

For more explaination and evidence of death being sleep, go to:remnantofgod.org...

[edit on 10-8-2008 by IAPremed]

[edit on 10-8-2008 by IAPremed]

reply to post by IAPremed


Very interesting thread there, OP. Thankyou for sharing. As a Christian, I always thought of hell in a physical form. (No, I`m not catholic) So, this is kind of a new concept, although I`ve been thinking about it as of late. So, what exactly would hell be after those 1000 yearsÉ (question mark) I always thought after satans 1000 year reign, he would be locked up in fiery hell as a defeated prisoner, and not be able to do anything but suffer.
From what I`ve read, it seems as if the new concept of hell is just being entirely non-exsistantÉ (question mark)

Because to me, that wouldn`t work. I`m sure alot of people who hate God and Jesus (like satanists) would rather not exist than go to heaven, in which case, they would win over God, which is impossible.

Oh man, i have never disagreed with someone more than i do you right now. To put such an offensively bold statement saying "Satan works through th Catholic church" is enough for me to enroll you in the foe list. But than, like many other idiots out there, you try to spread the lie that there is no hell. There is a hell, it is not a physical hell, it is an eternal damnation, it is an endless sea of black. No moatter what you do on this earth, noting can or will condemn you to hell. You are condemed to Hell when you see God and Christ face to face and deny him, after death.

I don't know where you get the 1,000 year period will be run by Satan but...it is nothing less than the polar opposite. The Millenium is the time when Christ will spend 1000 years on earth with all the righteous. Not run by Satan. Satan will be dealt with straightaway. That is what makes the Millenium so glorious, no worries, no troulbe, no sorrow.

I feel immense sorrow for how lost you are, and i hope you soon realize it

Originally posted by screamo
You are condemed to Hell when you see God and Christ face to face and deny him, after death.

Hey, umm, not to derail, but what do you mean by the above statementÉ (question mark) I thought we had to acknowledge Jesus Christ as our lord and savior in this life to get to heaven, not the next one. I mean, who wouldn`t believe in God once they see himÉ (question mark)
ps: Do you by anychance like screamo musicÉ Your screenname seems to suggest so.

There are two hells (hell and Hell). hell is the wicked one against us. Hell is a punishment given to the wicked one. The wicked one is not of our Lord, meaning it is an alien. This is how come no one created of our Lord goes to Hell ever. But an alien shall go to Hell since it's wicked and been working all sorts of iniquity in the world.

And the wicked one can only self-delete. And shall when trapped in the depth of Hell brought final for them.

In our Lord are also betrayers who the Lord shall delete against their will. So unlike self-deletion of the devil, the betrayors of our Lord get deleted against their will. The Lord our Lord gets rid of all that offend and do iniquity basically because none of that in all ways gets to the second life.

This is what I found out from the Anti-Christ bible and most High.

"...against the memory of we-th is remembered (or: 'against got net')..."

^^It's as memory on another level in basic of a memory we against it left optionally tuned off. This option is only is allowed in paradise. The got net is a former trap by the wicked one. That "got net", before gotten rid of (pending expiring), did wish to plague our memory for ever if it could in how it wants by what it thinks occurs to us by what they done if we live a second life knowing everything in detail in the former life somewhere besides here on the planet. Like in paradise.

Remember how the tree of life was guarded off with a sword turning every which way? That life is the first life. In paradise we shall be given strong memory of reason not to remember past life memory that is optional to remember, specially since what is it once the devil been punished for what it did into committing existence suicide by self-deleting. No reason to remember someone gone for ever more in any way, shape, or form in detail. But in basics it will be sweet in our minds like revenge was carryied out to the extreme. There will be joy in the basic memory against the former memory. The memory itself is like not needed. I can understand we'd want some memory and that's why there will be basic memory on another level of looking back at the world.

This planet is some other universe's hell.

reply to post by screamo


There is no Hell for people, just read the links in the original post and you will realize this. Scriptures straight from the Bible, you can't deny if you are a believer. And Satan does control the Catholic Church (even though the leaders may not know it). The pope fits all the qualities of the Antichrist. And when you say Jesus will rule on Earth, you are completely confused and obviously has never read the Bible. And I'm sorry, Satan won't really be causing havoc while on Earth, that was incorrect. Jesus will return at the beginning of the 1000 years and destroy all the people that do not want to be with him, raise the dead of those that do want to be with him, and then ascend to Heaven with all the believers on Earth where they will rule together for the 1000 years. This will leave Satan and his Demons free on Earth, but with nobody left to tempt, so they are "bound." Then Jesus descends after the 1000 years and raises the nonbelievers. Satan and these non-believers will then try to attack the New Jeruselum, but before they do, Jesus will rain down fire and brimstone and destroy them all for good.
What you just said you believed is actually going to happen is exactly what Satan has caused people to believe by using the Catholic Church to spread this, so I'm guessing you're Catholic. You can see in the first paragraph at the following link how you're belief is created by Satan. Please read this whole thing and then tell me I'm wrong.
Here is what will occur during the 1000 years: remnantofgod.org...

This is also a good link to show you how the Catholic Church is evil:
remnantofgod.org...

There is no Hell for people, just read the links in the original post and you will realize this. Scriptures straight from the Bible, you can't deny if you are a believer. And Satan does control the Catholic Church (even though the leaders may not know it). The pope fits all the qualities of the Antichrist. And when you say Jesus will rule on Earth, you are completely confused and obviously have never read the Bible. And I'm sorry, Satan won't really be causing havoc while on Earth, that was incorrect. Jesus will return at the beginning of the 1000 years and destroy all the people that do not want to be with him, raise the dead of those that do want to be with him, and then ascend to Heaven with all the believers on Earth where they will rule together for the 1000 years. This will leave Satan and his Demons free on Earth, but with nobody left to tempt, so they are "bound." Then Jesus descends after the 1000 years and raises the nonbelievers. Satan and these non-believers will then try to attack the New Jeruselum, but before they do, Jesus will rain down fire and brimstone and destroy them all for good.
What you just said you believed is actually going to happen is exactly what Satan has caused people to believe by using the Catholic Church to spread this, so I'm guessing you're Catholic. You can see in the first paragraph at the following link how you're belief is created by Satan. Please read this whole thing and then tell me I'm wrong.
Here is what will occur during the 1000 years: remnantofgod.org...

This is also a good link to show you how the Catholic Church is evil:
remnantofgod.org...

I don't want to address your issues with the Catholic Church but I would like to give you some...... food for thought, on your ideas of sleeping until the second coming.

I want you to consider this particular verse in the Gospel of Thomas:

"The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. "

You know in scripture where it says, that a follower of Jesus told him, he would be right along, as soon as he buried his father? What did Jesus tell him? Let the dead bury the dead. Do you understand that if a person is spiritually dead, they will die. You must attain enlightenment from him to live and if you had attained it, this thread wouldn't exist because your eyes would be open and you would see spiritually and you would no longer be blind but you would be walking in his light.

Now let's relook at scripture you quoted from the Bible.


"Psalms 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;"

Do you understand that David did not want to sleep, the sleep of death? He wanted the Lord to enlighten him to the other possibility.

You said:

"In the book of John we find a situation where Jesus Himself refers to the dead as being asleep. John 11:11-14 ...Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep."

In John 5 Jesus says:

"I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. FOR JUST AS THE FATHER RAISES THE DEAD AND GIVES THEM LIFE, even so the Son GIVES LIFE TO WHOM HE IS PLEASED to give it."

Now who are the people that Jesus saw God raise from the dead? Jesus learned to raise the dead somewhere.

Let me peel the curtain back for you a bit more...... Moses was at the transfiguration. You can accept Peter, James & John's testimony, that he appeared with Elijah and then they disappeared ..... and if they suddenly disappeared - where in the world did they go? Or are you saying you don't believe their testimony and they all three experienced a shared hallucination? If you believe they really appeared, then they obviously came from somewhere we can't see but it's a place they also returned to.

Remember - only Enoch and Elijah were translated into heaven, escaping physical death - Moses on the other hand walked to his own funeral - yet he lives because he was seen by witnesses at the transfiguration.

Jesus said 'before Abraham was, I am...." Jesus said God is Spirit and he told the Sadducees, 'But about the resurrection of the dead - have you not read what God said to you, I am the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Even in Revelation, John bared witness to cognizant souls under the altar crying out to God to avenge their deaths.

It's obvious to see from scripture, that something is going on behind the curtain. The whole NT is about making things on earth like they are in heaven. It's why Jesus said that from John the Baptist's days and Jesus' - the kingdom of heaven has been "forcefully advancing and forceful men lay hold of it." This kindgom that cometh is spiritual and will merge with the physical at the renewal of all things. Comprehend?

You then said this:

"Before going on, I must interject as to the main reason Jesus calls death "sleep" here. It is because He knows that everyone will awaken one day out of death as we awaken each morning from sleep. Some will awaken to receive eternal life, and others will awaken to be destroyed in eternal damnation."

Did you read carefully what Jesus said to Martha, Lazarus' sister?

She's devestated by her brothers death. Jesus says to her "Your brother will rise again."

She said: "I know he will rise again IN THE RESURRECTION AT THE LAST DAY."

I can just see Jesus standing there looking at her saying: "MARTHA I AM THE RESURRECTION...... and life."

Then he says: "He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;"

But consider carefully his clarifying next words: "and whoever lives and believes in me will never die."

Eternal life is here and now - it's what he brought and he gives it freely. There is a huge difference in believing v's living and believing. Please don't let other people think for you. He made you much better than that!

I started my post to you with the Gospel of Thomas and I'm going to finish with it.

"When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

Son, if you want to sleep, then by all means, sleep. But if you want to know the power of God you need to wake up and take responsibility for yourself.... and your life. He has handed everyone the key to the kingdom but everyone is either blinded, lazy or set in their ways, and they think they got it all figured out, when in reality, they wouldn't know the "truth" if it came up and bit them on the ass. A person should not be ashamed of being spiritually blind. Jesus came to help us understand the darkness we live in. The blind can't lead the blind - but a person who sees can help others. I care, like he did and I'm only trying to help.

Now are you dead or are you alive? Do you believe in Jesus? Or do you live and believe in Jesus?

several things to consider.

- there is a resurrection (john 5:[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,) if there is a resurrection, a resurrection from what? if you die and instantly go to heaven or hell, why need a resurrection?

- lazarus was resurrected. which was he pulled from, heaven or hell? theres no indication he went anywhere. but jesus likely would have known, but then why woud he say he was sleeping?

- is a 80 years of debauchery really deserve and eternity of torment and torture? even our imperfect sense of human justice sees something wrong with that.

eccl 9:[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.[10] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

this scripture makes light of the lazarus story. if lazarus was dead (non-existant) then jesus' statement about him being asleep is fitting. martha's statement about the resurrection in the last day too would make sense in that they are waiting. the resurrection itself would make sense as you cannot resurrect something already alive.

but if you believe in an immortal soul this story conflicts.

ezek 18:[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

to illustrate. you have a candle. you blow it out. where did the flame go?

Originally posted by For(Home)Country

Originally posted by screamo
You are condemed to Hell when you see God and Christ face to face and deny him, after death.

Hey, umm, not to derail, but what do you mean by the above statementÉ (question mark) I thought we had to acknowledge Jesus Christ as our lord and savior in this life to get to heaven, not the next one. I mean, who wouldn`t believe in God once they see himÉ (question mark)
ps: Do you by anychance like screamo musicÉ Your screenname seems to suggest so.

Yes, i love screamo music. More of a post hardcore fan but i'm too lazy to change it.

Back to the question though: Here's is straight from my church's site:

"Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ."

I was referring to the second Hell which the quote speaks of. If you want the link to where i got this info it can be found here

And to address the anonymous ATS'er. No, i don't have the Millenium confused. I think i have it all worked out, and please, if we ever encounter again, don't tell me i'm confused with anything, confused is the last thing i am. I'll give you some references where i get my beliefs from, take it if you want, i'm not asking you believe it, just that you understand what i am saying cause there is some sort of confusion on your end.

Without saying anything more, here's a link which explains the subject better than i can.

"Son, if you want to sleep, then by all means, sleep. But if you want to know the power of God you need to wake up and take responsibility for yourself.... and your life. He has handed everyone the key to the kingdom but everyone is either blinded, lazy or set in their ways, and they think they got it all figured out, when in reality, they wouldn't know the "truth" if it came up and bit them on the ass. A person should not be ashamed of being spiritually blind. Jesus came to help us understand the darkness we live in. The blind can't lead the blind - but a person who sees can help others. I care, like he did and I'm only trying to help.

Now are you dead or are you alive? Do you believe in Jesus? Or do you live and believe in Jesus? "


Sorry, but I think you might not understand what I am tyrying to get across. I'm not saying that when you die you are asleep forever. I am saying that when you die, you are asleep until Jesus returns to raise us from our death(sleep) and take us to Heaven. You stated this scripture:

"and whoever lives and believes in me will never die."

This means just what I was saying. Those that are raised from their sleep (temporary death) and believe in Jesus will not be eternally dead, but once resurrected will have eternal life in Heaven. Those that don’t believe will be resurrected at Jesus’ return after the 1000 years, but they WILL die eternally. Just as Satan will. They will cease to exist.

Please read the links I posted to get a better understanding of what I'm saying. It makes more sense then my own words and does a much better job at explaination. Thanks.

you think isaac hayes is going to hell

reply to post by IAPremed


I know clearly what you are saying and what you believe; when you die you sleep until the resurrection.

I'm telling you, there's another option and you are not seeing it. Most people don't. Most people will sleep until the resurrection of the last day, but I am telling you the truth, there is way more to this, than what you have been led to believe.

Again, look at what Christ says to Martha, right before he raises Lazarus from the DEAD:

John 11:25-26 (Read it slowly and let every single word sink in)

"I am the resurrection AND the life. He who BELIEVES in me will live, EVEN THOUGH he dies; AND whoever LIVES AND BELIEVES in me will NEVER die."

There is a deeper message here that revolves around the Holy Spirit. If you have the Holy Spirit in you - you have surpassed just believing - you are living. He is the resurrection..... and the life. What do you think resurrects a person? The Holy Spirit.

John 3:6-12

"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to Spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear it's sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

"How can the be?" Nicodemus asked.

"You are Israel's teacher, said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people don't accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?"

The Holy Spirit rested on Jesus after his baptism. One day when he was walking, he even knew that a woman had touched him because power had gone out from him. This very Spirit that was in Jesus can be in you. He didn't give it to his apostles until after his death, so Lazarus didn't have it when he died. The power of God is this Holy Spirit and it's available right now.

Attaining the Holy Spirit is living and by living and believing you will never die.

Flesh dies.... spirit doesn't.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct

Flesh dies.... spirit doesn't.

ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

romans 3:[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

if we die, its because we are sinners. all sinners must wait for jesus to resurrect us

"I am the resurrection AND the life. He who BELIEVES in me will live, EVEN THOUGH he dies; AND whoever LIVES AND BELIEVES in me will NEVER die."

This quote simply means that those who die but believe will not be destroyed, they will be ressurrected at the second coming and live for eternity. The second part simply means that when Jesus returns, those that believe and are still alive on Earth will not die before they are taken to Heaven, they will be taken up just as Elijah was, as in still alive. Those that don't believe in him when he returns will be killed.

Sorry, I don't really understand what other meaning you are trying to convey.

reply to post by IAPremed


He didn't say anything about the second coming in the verse I quoted. Not one word. Martha mentioned the last day, not Jesus. He told her if a person "lives and believes" they will never die. He then asked her "Do you believe this?"

Listen, you are right, there is a physical resurrection at his second coming, but what I'm trying to tell you is there is a spiritual resurrection too, that is what Jesus brought - it's the great work - the great mystery unveiled.

I'll tell you what, I'll start a thread later and show you I know what I'm talking about.




[edit on 12-8-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]

reply to post by miriam0566



Miriam do you honestly think there isn't a raising of the Holy Spirit, for the here and now? Do you think Christ's teachings were only for people 2000 years ago?

Yes, a soul that sins dies but not if a person does the things Jesus instructed, which is to be born of water and spirit, you can have life now.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct

Yes, a soul that sins dies but not if a person does the things Jesus instructed, which is to be born of water and spirit, you can have life now.

in a figurative sense, yes i agree.