nice guys finish last

a common complaint i hear is guys endlessly whining that "girls don't like nice guys". i noticed it several times in the thread i made about the two girls i'm dating.

so here are a few questions for the lonely white knights out there:

1) are you interested in "nice girls"? that is to say, if a girl acted toward you the way you act toward the women who blow you off, how would you react? i've noticed that most self-proclaimed "nice guys" seem to go after women who are not "nice girls". this is as ironic as when you hear an ugly guy complaining that "hot chicks are so shallow...they only care about looks".

2)what, other than projecting yourself as a doormat, are you offering? you can't expect women to be drawn to you just because you're desperate and a total pushover. in fact both of these are highly undesirable characteristics. girls like winners. they like excitement. they like someone who challenges them.

3) if you're aware your strategy isn't working, why not change? to me, this seems blindingly obvious. if you've really decided that "girls don't like nice guy" then why not try a new approach? either you enjoy being disappointed or you aren't bright enough to figure out a new strategy.

Some guys refuse to play a woman or be a jerk. Now some of what you said is absolutely correct. Women don't want a doormat. They do want someone with mystery and excitement. This is a bad move by guys that proclaim themselves to be "a nice guy" Women just don't want a pushover.

However, one does not have to be a pushover to be a nice guy. One does not have to use, lie and cheat women in order to be attractive. One does not have to be a jerk in order to find a quality woman.

In the thread you mentioned. What people got upset about and I agree with them is that you are using a woman that has feelings. A human being that has desires and the right to be with someone that can reciprocate those desires as well.

To answer your questions... even tho I don't consider myself a nice guy.

1) Yes I am interested in nice girls. A girl that would treat me as I would treat her in a respectable manner would be nice.

2) While I don't feel that respecting a person as an individual instead of a sex object is the characteristics of the looser nice guy, I feel that I also offer honesty, compassion, and someone they can trust.

3) Why not change to you? Because people deserve respect. Plain and simple, people deserve to be respected for who they are and not be used as a sex toy. This isn't a strategy as in a game. Women are people and they deserve to be treated with the same respect and courtesy that one would expect anyone to want themselves.



[edit on 8/9/2008 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno


easy, tiger. i never suggested anyone be "more like me". i was simply offering advice to the guys who bemoan their fates as lonely "nice guys". if you're happy with how things are working out for you then i agree, there is absolutely no reason for you to change.

ok playa lets see these two chicks. anyone can pick up on 2 ugly chicks, even 2 average ones. thats no accomplishment and thats no reason to be going around giving people advice.

reply to post by Slothrop



IMO, the very sexiest of women love doormats, but they also want a good fight in the sack.
I prefer smolderingly-hot, super-aggressive women who ask me out within the first five minutes of meeting me. I like it best when they are friendly/goofy in day-to-day life, but free enough to be as naughty as they want in the sack. It usually takes several months of tomfoolery before they feel comfortable enough to go animal on you, but then you really have something! I mean you can’t just hang a sign on your back and say “Hi I’m a doormat, walk on me now.” Unless you’re some sort of professional. Plus it’s always a drag when woman are frightened to ask you out because they don’t understand the context of your marriage, or if they think you’re going to gab about their personal business. So always keep them lips zipped, it‘ll hurt you too. And even if you don’t click with someone, you can still team up with them, and help each other find what you’re looking for. If you really care for someone, you will help them fulfill their wildest fantasies and not try to control them because your some insecure hic. But hey what do I know I haven't really been looking for a few years.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by sexysadie]

reply to post by sexysadie

Plus it’s always a drag when woman are frightened to ask you out because they don’t understand the context of your marriage

i'm a pretty cosmopolitan guy but you confused me a little right here

would be hard to find a nice girl since you declared yourself as a satanist eh?

Originally posted by nahsik
would be hard to find a nice girl since you declared yourself as a satanist eh?

i'm not exactly open about it with people in my daily life.

also, i'm not all that attracted to nice girls.

I like a fisety girl who can give me a smack in the mouth and throw water over me and give me a big argument but also has a sensetive, caring side to her.

I am the same as that, i never protray to be a nice guy, i always tlel them am willing to kill and they know am a guy that will kill for them.
You have to be straight with women, some cant take it because some do want contorl over there men but dont want the man to know she has contorl.

However, for me, i make sure they know that if they step out of line i will drown them down however genreally i let them get away with alot of things.

reply to post by Question Fate


You'd be shocked. Ugly girls from what I observed actually seem to have more standards.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
reply to post by Question Fate

 

You'd be shocked. Ugly girls from what I observed actually seem to have more standards.

they do attucally.

I used to be a nice guy and I did OK with the ladies but still got dumped on a fair amount.

Now that I don't really care and have matured, and have an abundance of
selfconfidence; I find that I am attracting women that at one time I would
have been to shy to even start a conversation with. I just wish that the married women would leave me alone. I learned that lesson the hard way.

And "ugly girls" ....no such thing!

The ugly girls are women who have too high standards over men.

reply to post by nahsik


why because their insecure? thats aload of intellectual garbish that donest deserve to comment on a site like ats

In my experience, it's not that "nice guys finish last" or "bad guys get all the nice girls" or anything of the sort. It's just that there are two different types of people - those with controlling personalities, who I suppose would come across as "bad" and submissive sorts who would fall under the "nice" category.

You know the old saying "opposites attract"? I think it applies here. Two mostly controlling people cannot work together because there would be too much conflict between them as they fought each other for control of the relationship. In the same way, two submissive wouldn't work because neither of them would ever take charge and get things done. Hell, they probably only ever get paired up by outside matchmakers because neither of them would have initiated the coupling.

Of course, there are varying degrees for these two categories. Someone can be mostly controlling and also somewhat submissive, or the other way around. All that matters for a successful pairing is that one person's personality is more domineering than the other's.

Deep down, people either want to punish or be punished. The meek man who goes home to a cruel, bossy witch of a wife is simply fulfilling his inner desires. So is the woman who allows her husband to push her around, cheat on her and demand that she takes care of all the housework and shuts her mouth, etc.

If you're the "nice guy" who finds himself "finishing last" maybe you should try racing against different competition. Stop going after the nice girls and let the cruel ones take you.

Ive never believed that nice guys finish last. Some of the guys whining that they are nice and that is why they cant get a date are usually not really nice at all. And it is not that the women dont like you- you just havent found the right one yet. You have to date and meet different types of women to find out who is right for you. It may take years to get it. Everyone likes instant gratification these days, so it seems impossible.

On another note- dont you think you should look into dating another Satanist since you say you have to hide it from them? It would look even worse if they found out later and were adverse to such beliefs.

raven, thats exactly what I tell people. You need to date a lot of frogs before you actually find a prince or princess.

Yet people are so quick to claim that every single member of the opposite sex is evil the second they get screwed over by one person. I find it quite hillarious and sad at the same time.

Nice guys do finish last. Thats why I keep it gangsta. My girls love when I slap them in the face and scream westside

No offense people but I think sometimes people confuse "nice guy" with "a guy without a spine". If you never step up to the plate (regardless of the topic) you'll never finish first.

Step up! Be a man!

I'm definitely nice, but definitely not a doormat or clingy. Let me see if I can answer your questions.

1) are you interested in "nice girls"? that is to say, if a girl acted toward you the way you act toward the women who blow you off, how would you react? i've noticed that most self-proclaimed "nice guys" seem to go after women who are not "nice girls". this is as ironic as when you hear an ugly guy complaining that "hot chicks are so shallow...they only care about looks".

Yes, I'm interested in nice girls. To be honest, a girl can be hot as Hell, but I'll be totally turned off by her if she has a bad attitude. Personality is everything to me. Yes, the girl does need to be attractive to me, but I've found that girls I never thought I'd be attracted to suddenly become very attractive because of their personalities. I think using "game" and going after the hot chicks with horrible personalities only grants temporary happiness, and no long-term fulfillment. But hey, if that's what you're going for, more power to you. I'm nobody to judge.

2)what, other than projecting yourself as a doormat, are you offering? you can't expect women to be drawn to you just because you're desperate and a total pushover. in fact both of these are highly undesirable characteristics. girls like winners. they like excitement. they like someone who challenges them.

For the sake of answering this question, I'll abandon some modesty. I'm a good looking guy whose in great physical shape. I get girls giving me looks all the time. At the place I used to work, just about every girl who worked there at one time or another had a crush on me...some of them a bit older, too. I'm intelligent and I have strong, well thought-out opinions on most important world issues. I can discuss with some level of competency things from world religions, to philosophy, to psychology, to music and movies, etc. I play guitar and am at least decent at it. I get good grades, I have a good part-time job, and I'm in college for Global Business. Oh, and above all else, I'm a nice guy. I will always treat a woman with the respect and dignity she deserves. I'll gladly drive and pay for dinner, unless she truly objects in which case I'm fine either way. I don't look at women as sex objects. I actually listen to what she has to say, and really do consider her thoughts and opinions instead of just waiting for her to shut up, and I will add my own opinions to the discussion. I would do anything for a girl I love, but not in a way that allows me to be a "push-over." I could go on, but I'll stop here. I'm 21, I've only ever had one serious relationship, and it ended pretty badly and fairly recently. These characteristics I possess allowed me to be taken advantage of. I got lied to (I don't mean she cheated on me...it's kind of a long story,) and insulted. The girl who was my best friend before the relationship, and also the first girl I've ever been in love with, broke up with me one day and apparently has no plans of ever having anything to do with me again. I had too much dignity to beg for her back or harass her or anything like that. I just let her insult me and walk out of my life for good. I know that if I had been a little less honest about some things...maybe if I'd rejected her every now and then when she wanted to go out...maybe if I'd pretended to be different than I truly am and feigned unshakable confidence, things probably would have worked out differently. But I don't want that. I'm only good at being myself...I don't play games, but unfortunately most girls my age don't want that. They want a guy with "game" that acts like all of the other guys, dresses like all of the other guys, and listens to the same crappy music as all of the other guys. I guess this is why it irks me a little bit when people start ragging on "the nice guy."

3) if you're aware your strategy isn't working, why not change? to me, this seems blindingly obvious. if you've really decided that "girls don't like nice guy" then why not try a new approach? either you enjoy being disappointed or you aren't bright enough to figure out a new strategy.

Because to me, if you're looking for a real relationship and not just a sex-partner, you shouldn't have to use a strategy. It's not a game to me. If I can't be completely myself and vice versa, it's not even worth pursuing because eventually the real "you" comes out. For a real, deep relationship (which is the only kind I'm interested in) two people need to be able to be completely open and honest with each other To be really happy, it seems like two people should love each other for who they truly are...not because of some stupid strategy or "game" or anything like that. I mean yeah, I go on dates here and there, but I can tell pretty quickly whether or not something has potential to work out in the long run.

But again, that's just me. I understand that a lot of people aren't looking for a real relationship...just a bit of fun. That's perfectly fine, I'm just not gonna date them. I understand their point of view, so why can't they understand mine?