People in the religious forum *sigh*

It seems to me that in far too many threads in the religious forum there will be a nice descussion about religion with smart educated replies and then we'll see something like this by some ignorant user..
"THEIR IS NO GODDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOUR ALL STEWPID IDIOITSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!" (spelling errors on purpose)
These people are annoying and it pisses me off when I see those posts. If there's a moron award to stop morons from posting rediculous "facts" in the science forum can we please find a way to shut these annoying people the hell up?

It's a persons rite to state there is no god. And if you don't like it then too bad.
If you believe in god then so be it, but don't force your opinions on people who dispute you.

Mad Scientist, seeing as this post is directed towards you, and your stupid comment about how religion is evil that so blew up in your face as people showed you the good in religion too...I highly doubt you're the one to be saying that anyone can express their opinions about god.

Any opinion should be an informed one shouldn't it?

The point here you over looked, is that an athiest could rather attempt to teach why there is no god, rather than shouting at the top of his lungs.

Sincerely,
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FM don't mistake athisem for just plain old ignorance...
Athiests can make relevent albeit easily beaten, points.

What we are having in the religion forum is not an exchange of views/ facts but often just an exchange of ignorance and prejudices. ...

True, I back when I doubted the existance of god, if you could call it that (Really I just denied man's view of god, I still retained all my spiritualism that I have today, but omitted the word god till I realized, what I believed involved a "god") anyways...I came up with some EXCELLENT and hard to answer reasons why there couldn't be a god...usually dealing with the ever so present, TIME. Such as eternity vs. creation blah blah.

But I can't see how ANYONE could be athiest, because even if you believe all there is is us and this universe, THAT UNIVERSE IS GOD!?? ALL existance is god. Truly you must believe in no existance after death, to deny a God, that's the way I think of it anyways.

Opinions always differ and the best way is to hear them all

So yes, athiests are free to speak, but they must do so rationally and without anger (Which I found as an athiest, is very fast to come, since a lot of things religions do are quite frustrating from a logical standpoint )

Sincerely,
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Originally posted by FreeMason

But I can't see how ANYONE could be athiest, because even if you believe all there is is us and this universe, THAT UNIVERSE IS GOD!??

Please explain this statement.

I am athiest.

what FM is sayin winston is that if you do not belive/whorship a being then what is it that you do whorship? the universe or some thing else? understand?

I have trouble with athiesm myself because i dont see any feasible explanation for the universe's existence and purpose of man. albiet you probably wont ever see this i still ask it anyways

My 2 cents
~Agent 47~

Yeah I guess ninja is sorta on to it.

What I mean winston is ... You say you are an athiest, but then does that mean you truly think, when you die...you cease to exist?

If you do, then I can truly accept you are an athiest, but to cease to exist when you already exist right now, seems to me not even logical, let alone believable...but that's besides the point.

If you think you are say reincarnated once you die, or just float around as a ghost...whatever....then what is it that Isn't god-like about that?

I think most athiests really just redefined their god, to a non-personified existance.....or such.

You say you don't believe in god, I suppose you don't believe in a creator of mankind, or possibly even the universe, but what of EXISTANCE? ... think on it, for 10 years, and then another 10 years

The very fact we are here, I think is proof of a god, even if that god is all of existance, including us.

Sincerely,
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Originally posted by NinjaoftheNight
what is it that you do whorship?

I don't worship.

I don't feel a need to.

Originally posted by FreeMason
when you die...you cease to exist?

Yes.

We are the results of a spectacularly complex reaction of a multitude of chemicals. Our intelligence and awareness-of-self arises from these complex chemical reactions of life.

When these reactions cease, our awareness-of-self also ceases. If what defines our awareness should stop, due to the cessation of the chemical reactions, we are finished. There is nothing else.

You don't know it has stopped, since you are no longer aware. This terrifying prospect is what sparks the hope that there may be something else. I see no reason to believe there is. (And I have studied religion)

*sigh* This is not the religious forum..

Winston I don't see how you can say that without laughing, you believe we cease to exist? Ok...then you know nothing of logic nor reasoning and can't be intelligent enough to even converse with.

If you cease to exist that's it nothingness, this never happend, so your existance now is not possible, so either you're wrong...or well there just isn't any other option.

You work out the logic.

And as a former athiest myself I often pondered that same thing "Self-awareness". My conclusion was much different than yours though...that yes self-awarness, in fact, personality, has little to do with our "souls" and when we die, we in a sense are no longer ourselves as we were in life, but our existance continues, that is our individuality, what makes us different than a rock...I think winston you need some time in a forest.

Man went from the "you die that's it." to the "soul" theory for a reason, not because of hope, but because if all we are is chemical reactions, what makes us different than the rock, we should be the rock as well.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 12-1-2003 by FreeMason]

I agree with Winston. When we die, that's it - lights out. I take great comfort in that belief.

I don't understand why the creation of the universe is served up as a talking point in these discussions. Why does the universe have to have a creation, a beginning? Why can't it have always existed? I believe that it simply IS, always has been and always will be. That shouldn't be a foreign concept to the faithful, since they can apply that logic to their god.

I also don't understand why mankind needs a purpose, or why the existence of our species is somehow a miraculous, wonderous thing. We're nothing more than biology.

Even without the threat of eternity in hell, I live an honest and virtuous life. I have raised two intelligent, respectful, clean & sober sons. As they embark on their adult lives, I am now turning my attentions to volunteering with charitable groups. I continually seek to understand others and to better understand myself and the world I live in. I work hard. I sleep well.

I believe in your right to worship your god. I am willing to die to preserve your right to do so. Are you willing to die for my right not to worship at all? This is, I believe, the best test of the purity of one's belief system.

I used to think like you but even science (the antipathy of religion) has proven that the Universe has not always been...but rather was created, and not too long ago either.

Again, to those who think it is "lights-out" please, use some logic and try and see how you can ever "not exist". Memory and existance are two different things, if you had no memory you'd still have existed yesterday wouldn't you have...

Hmm am I the only person on earth who was an Athiest but believed in Reincarnation? I can't believe that 2 people who think you cease to exist when you die, happen to be in one forums!

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 12-1-2003 by FreeMason]

You were an atheist and also believed in reincarnation? Why?

I haven't yet found proof of - and therefore, don't believe in - anything metaphysical. I don't believe in god, or a higher power, or what have you. I don't accept that there are ghosts or supernatural beings, and I think astrology is one of the oldest shams on record. I don't believe there is such a thing as premonition, or ESP. It's all hopeful fantasy.

FM, can you explain more about "memory and existance are two different things"? Is this a continuation or different flavor of your reincarnation beliefs? You urge us to use logic to see that we can never 'not exist', but to someone like me who believes that there is no "soul" or "spirit", the point is moot.

When we die, we will become meat and nothing more. The magical, fascinating subject of ourselves, our species, our purpose exists only in our heads, and only because we cannot accept the inevitable: we are not special, we are merely biological beings.

Because athiesm is simply the lack of belief in God, which I had at the time, I believed everything was natural, and there was no supernatural god blah blah...no "creator" then over time, after redefining my spirituality and myself, I realized nature is god, how it was created might not be as god like as we think, but why, and the fact it is here is.

I'd be glad to explain memory vs. existance. I think Existance is truly something that we can not see, it is us it is our spirit, existance isn't just being, a rock is not existance, only does it "exist" when we see it....as far as we know...but that's a good example anyways.

Memory, is simply that, chemicals, a recording of events, and while our memories are our own, our true individuality is not in this life, but in our existance, our path, the path we have taken in all our lives, vs. all being one existance.

You say the point is moot...however here you are, and you will always be...for if not, and this were a dream...then our lives are no different than dreamless sleep. Have you never gone to bed, only to wake up 3 seconds later, but it really has been many upon many hours. If you were to cease to exist when all this is over, then you'd never have experienced this in the first place.

You can not have "Existed" and cease to be...the point is not moot you simply choose to ignore it to make things "easier". Stop ignoring yourself, and think about it.

Why is it we are not meat now? What is different between life and death? Nothing. Nothing is different between us, and a rock, except we exist, and we have senses to percieve all the rest of existance, and make for ourselves a "reality". But why if our senses are only electrical impulses, does not a rock have the same feelings? It has energy too...there is more at work, than simple sense of being...trust me Bostock, think about it for MANY years, before you take a belief of "not believing" and "not existing"....as time wears on you, I think your views will change, even if it takes you till you die.

"Biological beings"....we are atoms, and nothing different than the stars which have shone on us for all time....if intelligence were simply reactions, than a star would be smarter than us.

Our minds have not changed in hundreds of thousands of years, but we have gone from animals to space travellers, not because of a big brain, but because of our "knowledge"...we evolve more through thought, than we ever have through chemicals...really, you need to sit there, and study science, before you say we are "just science".

The very fact that ANYTHING has mass at all...is amazing, we are nothing, compared to the fact that a grain of sand has weight.

Sincerely,
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Originally posted by FreeMason
Winston I don't see how you can say that without laughing, you believe we cease to exist? Ok...then you know nothing of logic nor reasoning and can't be intelligent enough to even converse with.

As we've seen... no one converses "with" Free Mason. We post.... you disagree in such length, veracity, and quantity of posts that it becomes pointless to converse.

By the way... what do you do that you have such enormous free time to spend on this forum?

Wow. First of all this is a forum to talk about website problems and such. Take it to the religious forum

Second of all, can anybody on this damn site talk and debate to one another without insulting another person?? Of course people are going to disagree with you! This is a forum for sharing ideas! If you don't like another user that's too damn bad, keep it to yourself because nobody cares, especially the person you don't like. Spend more of your time trying to get your point across instead of insulting the other person.

Look you pointy headed, spotty faced little belguin waffle, when are you going to get it between those spock ears that we NEVER insult other people?

We just describe them as they are .....

Actually I do have spock ears.

All I'm saying is people should try to stop fighting as much and start sharing their weird, twisted ideas through less harsh words. If you act like an a$$hole nobody's gonna listen to you, nobody likes an a$$hole..well..beside gay men and some women.. just kidding

[Edited on 1/13/03 by LostProphet]