Israel warns Russia: We'll neutralize S-300 if sold to Iran

Israel warns Russia: We'll neutralize S-300 if sold to Iran
Aug. 8, 2008
Yaakov Katz , THE JERUSALEM POST

If Russia goes through with the sale of its most advanced anti-aircraft missile system to Iran, Israel will use an electronic warfare device now under development to neutralize it and as a result present Russia as vulnerable to air infiltrations, a top defense official has told The Jerusalem Post.

The Russian system, called the S-300, is one of the most advanced multi-target anti-aircraft-missile systems in the world today and has a reported ability to track up to 100 targets simultaneously while engaging up to 12 at the same time. It has a range of about 200 kilometers and can hit targets at altitudes of 27,000 meters.

While Russia has denied that it sold the system to Iran, Teheran claimed last year that Moscow was preparing to equip the Islamic Republic with S-300 systems. Iran already has TOR-M1 surface-to-air missiles from Russia.

Interesting, if the first time the S-300 is actually used in combat and the Israeli's neutralize it, Russian military prestige will definately take a beating.

mod edit: cut down length of external quote.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by UK Wizard]

reply to post by rogue1


damn thats a large snipit from the external source
what happend to just copying abit

anyhow on topic
this is israel just blowing more hot air, they think by saying they can run rings around the s-300 they will stop russia from selling it to Iran.
before Israel gets to go in

No wonder they lost the Lebanese war of 2006.

It seems that the fine military traditions of Israeli warfare have taken a beating in the last decade or two.
Saber rattling is fine to an extent but this is preposterous...
EW that will render the S-300 useless? An open threat to Russia?
Even if it is possible in some wild fantasy, no sane strategist would even dream of revealing such an ability as a public statement; as Russia would most definitely have Israel flooded with droves of KGB/FSB agents determining the truth of this.
This statement exudes a sense of fear more than anything else, and even the S-300 is not something that warrants fear in Israeli military minds IMHO... so what gives??!!

Israel has come down to the same level as empty saber rattling that its traditional foes used to carry out.I hope more sensible people become decision makers in near future in Israel or things won't be peachy for them for too long.
This is most disturbing and distressing for everyone, including the Israelis.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by Daedalus3]

It wouldn't surprise me at all that the Israeli's are developing countermeasures to the S-300. They do have a system to practice on in their local neighbourhood already.
The S-300 has never been used in combat and therefore it true effectiveness is unknown. It may turn out that alot of the bluster of the S-300's capabilities are just that bluster.

Originally posted by rogue1

Israel warns Russia: We'll neutralize S-300 if sold to Iran
Aug. 8, 2008
Yaakov Katz , THE JERUSALEM POST

If Russia goes through with the sale of its most advanced anti-aircraft missile system to Iran, Israel will use an electronic warfare device now under development to neutralize it and as a result present Russia as vulnerable to air infiltrations, a top defense official has told The Jerusalem Post.......

MOD EDIT - Snipped unnecesarry long quote

Interesting, if the first time the S-300 is actually used in combat and the Israeli's neutralize it, Russian military prestige will definately take a beating.

The type of S-300 that Iran reportadly has is the S-300PMU-1, the U.S. bought a PMU-1 from a former Soviet Republic and has studied it, and gave it's frequencies to Isreal, thats why Isreal is "confident" it will stop Iran's S-300'S, now if Iran was smart they'd buy 250 S-300PMU-2 & Iskander Missile Batteries (4 missiles each for a total of 4000 missiles for both systems) then the Jews would be in BIG trouble if they ever DARED attacking Iran, but as usual the Iranian leadership is working for the "Illuminati" and so they diliberatly will not purchase the type of weapon systems needed to defeat a powerful military, and Iran eventually will be destroyed, while thier people tryly believe thier leadership was working for the best interest of their (Iran) nation.

[edit on 8/0808/08 by neformore]

Originally posted by rogue1
It wouldn't surprise me at all that the Israeli's are developing countermeasures to the S-300. They do have a system to practice on in their local neighbourhood already.
The S-300 has never been used in combat and therefore it true effectiveness is unknown. It may turn out that alot of the bluster of the S-300's capabilities are just that bluster.

Who told you that lie? The west has BEEN afraid of the S-300 Family:

1. The S-300 grouping features several different types of missiles built to strike at everything from low-flying drones and stealth cruise missiles to high-altitude reconnaissance airplanes and distant sensor platforms. Arrival of these systems in the arsenals of military foes will greatly complicate US operations, which continue to depend heavily on nonstealthy aircraft and will for years to come.

Gen. Richard E. Hawley, the now-retired former commander of USAF's Air Combat Command, told an AFA symposium in February that these new SAMs, if deployed in numbers large enough to create overlapping zones of engagement, would figuratively present "a brick wall" to nonstealthy fighters, www.afa.org...

www.astronautix.com...


www.harpoonhq.com...

The west has BEEN afraid of the S-300 Family

reply to post by Lambo Rider


Hence why systems such as JASSM and Suter, or a possible Israeli version of a Suter like system, have been/are being developed. S-300 is, no doubt, a formidable system.

Doubt it's perfect, though.... as anything that's man made.

I believe that israel is might be bs or telling the truth. Let us not forget the russian system that syrian had fell to detect israel attacking because they were jammed by a similar system. as a result their nuclear site was destroy with no retaliation.

The Israeli's may be onto something. Their electronics industry is stunning, and defeating Soviet equipment is always an ongoing process for the Israeli's.

Don't think the US doesn't have a dog in this fight either. Every system is beatable, and the only variable is the timetable necessary.

I don't see the Israeli's as being braggarts. If I were the Soviet Union, I'd be reluctant to have them prove their claim. All that money and development right down the crapper.

There's only one way to find out for sure.

hmmm... S-300 ok fine they know how to turn it off... right!!! Saying something like "Russia should watch out" is just too funny... what are they going to do about S-400? S-500 is being developed as we speak... Israel wont do anything... they are talking big right now coz they know they are in a deep sh**... Israel would not make these kind of statements if they had tech to disable S-300 system.

All I was trying to point out is that Israel, in addition to having one hell of an intelligence network, also have a very skilled electronics and ECM capability.

You would suggest that the Israeli's won't do **it?

I don't recall the Israeli's having any trouble before. I recall each time the Israeli's busted a move, in the news reports, the UN, and the newpapers, the Russians were raising hell demanding that Israel immediately stop deconstructin their client states and high-dollar Russian equipment.

I mean the Russians would go ballistic! Putting pressure - no - demanding the US to make the Israeli's stop kicking the asses of the moment.

If I were Russian, and I was confident - I'd sell this stuff to Iran. And fast. But if I were Russian, and knew the lessons of the past decades, I'd be very reluctant to get my face rubbed in the mud again.

And you gotta admit - those Israeli scientists are as sharp as they come. And they have so many contacts with other smart people. In Russia.

Originally posted by rogue1

Israel warns Russia: We'll neutralize S-300 if sold to Iran
Aug. 8, 2008
Yaakov Katz , THE JERUSALEM POST

If Russia goes through with the sale of its most advanced anti-aircraft missile system to Iran, Israel will use an electronic warfare device now under development to neutralize it and as a result present Russia as vulnerable to air infiltrations, a top defense official has told The Jerusalem Post.

The Russian system, called the S-300, is one of the most advanced multi-target anti-aircraft-missile systems in the world today and has a reported ability to track up to 100 targets simultaneously while engaging up to 12 at the same time. It has a range of about 200 kilometers and can hit targets at altitudes of 27,000 meters.

While Russia has denied that it sold the system to Iran, Teheran claimed last year that Moscow was preparing to equip the Islamic Republic with S-300 systems. Iran already has TOR-M1 surface-to-air missiles from Russia.

Interesting, if the first time the S-300 is actually used in combat and the Israeli's neutralize it, Russian military prestige will definately take a beating.

mod edit: cut down length of external quote.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by UK Wizard]

Unless they use low flying anti-radiation missiles that fly "under" the S-300PMU-1's Radar-beam they won't really stop it, remember these SAMs also need protection by TorM-1's for under radar beam attacks, Russia has this, but historicaly Mid-East Nations don't, so don't let the Isreali's decieve you by giving "out-of context" reasonings how the destroyed the S-300PMU-1's if they do.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by 1000hanz]

[edit on 1-11-2008 by 1000hanz]

Funny thing is the S-300 has never been tested in combat. So everone who thinks it so foridable is just relying on the Russian sales team saying it is so. If and when the Israeli's launch a strike on a country wothe the s-300 and the sytem is proved to be crap, then we'll hvae all the wankers who support it saying well it's an export version. The fact remains when Russian hardware has been used against western hardware it has beed destroyed piecemeal. The S-300 is completely unproven and will remain so. UNtil it has seen comabt then ell the opinions here are hearsay and complete BS.

Funny thing is the S-300 has never been tested in combat. So everone who thinks it so foridable is just relying on the Russian sales team saying it is so. If and when the Israeli's launch a strike on a country wothe the s-300 and the sytem is proved to be crap, then we'll hvae all the wankers who support it saying well it's an export version. The fact remains when Russian hardware has been used against western hardware it has beed destroyed piecemeal. The S-300 is completely unproven and will remain so. UNtil it has seen comabt then ell the opinions here are hearsay and complete BS.

Originally posted by dooper
All I was trying to point out is that Israel, in addition to having one hell of an intelligence network, also have a very skilled electronics and ECM capability.

You would suggest that the Israeli's won't do **it?

I don't recall the Israeli's having any trouble before. I recall each time the Israeli's busted a move, in the news reports, the UN, and the newpapers, the Russians were raising hell demanding that Israel immediately stop deconstructin their client states and high-dollar Russian equipment.

I mean the Russians would go ballistic! Putting pressure - no - demanding the US to make the Israeli's stop kicking the asses of the moment.

If I were Russian, and I was confident - I'd sell this stuff to Iran. And fast. But if I were Russian, and knew the lessons of the past decades, I'd be very reluctant to get my face rubbed in the mud again.

And you gotta admit - those Israeli scientists are as sharp as they come. And they have so many contacts with other smart people. In Russia.

No there not, the give "out-of context" answers, in order to have "PROPPER" airdefence you have to have over lapping SAM coverage of ALL your areas, AND the SAMS have to be "protected" by SA-15's/TorM-1's but the MiD-East Nations NEVER did this in 67/73 and the Isreali's just used this to thier advantage and sent in Commando's with shoulder fired missiles and destroyed those SAMs, and the other way they destroyed those missiles was bcause the MiD-East Nations DIDN'T have SA-15/TorM-1's IN PROPPER numbers protecting those SAM's, it's really as simple as that, as for Isreal having the best scientists that figure out GREAT ECM-Tech, I can give you sources that clearly show all they have did was put in spies in the U.S.-Defense industries for 20+ years to get info on Russian Tech, thats how the REALLY became "socalled" GREAT ECM masters.

Originally posted by rogue1
Funny thing is the S-300 has never been tested in combat. So everone who thinks it so foridable is just relying on the Russian sales team saying it is so. If and when the Israeli's launch a strike on a country wothe the s-300 and the sytem is proved to be crap, then we'll hvae all the wankers who support it saying well it's an export version. The fact remains when Russian hardware has been used against western hardware it has beed destroyed piecemeal. The S-300 is completely unproven and will remain so. UNtil it has seen comabt then ell the opinions here are hearsay and complete BS.

Funny thing is the Patriot SAM has been tested in combat, AND IT WAS "PROOVEN" to be CRAP, and the U.S. Gov/Mil LIED threw thier teeth claiming to have shot down "most of Iraq's missiles"

"Accounts from the field indicate that the Patriots are being used in a manner known as the ripple-fire, where multiple Patriots are launched against a single threat in the hopes that their lethality will be increased simply by sheer dint of numbers. The ripple-fire method is more or less how the Patriot was designed to be operated, so it is not unusual that it is being applied in Iraq. But it is important to note this doctrine, because otherwise the impression might be gained that the missiles were destroying their targets on a one-to-one basis. Also, some of the Iraqi missiles are simply being let to fly unmolested if U.S. forces deem that they will land in unpopulated areas. This would imply that Patriot missile battery commanders are reserving their limited number of missiles for the most pressing threats.

Finally, the accidental downing of a British Tornado fighter by a Patriot missile on Sunday is a terrible reminder of the system’s limitations. Even if the operators do everything they are supposed to do, technical problems can and do crop up. Expectations of the Patriot's effectiveness must be reined in so that such tragedies can be side-stepped in the future. "http://www.cdi.org/missile-defense/patriot-performance.cfm

"To begin, the 32d AAMDC claims that the Patriot made nine intercepts out of nine engagements, allowing it a 100 percent success rate. This seems to be the result of a rather tortuous portrayal of the facts given in their own history. Reading through it, 23 Iraqi missile launches are documented (9 Ababil-100s, 4 Al Samouds, 4 CSSC-3s, 4 FROG-7s, and 2 unknowns). Of these, indeed, 9 apparently were intercepted by U.S. or Kuwaiti Patriot batteries, thanks to the at least 24 Patriot-type missiles (PAC-2, GEM, GEM+, and PAC-3) that were fired. However, that leaves 14 Iraqi missiles which were not intercepted. Excluding the one Ababil-100 which malfunctioned and blew up shortly after launch and the four FROG-7s which were outside of the Patriot’s range, leaves 9 Iraqi missiles which were not destroyed by the Patriot. The fact that they landed “harmlessly” in the desert or the Persian Gulf, in the words of the authors of the report, does not change the fact that they were not intercepted. In the CENTCOM area of responsibility at the time of the war, there were 1069 Patriot missiles (54 of which were PAC-3 missiles), and 29 U.S. and 5 Kuwaiti:
www.cdi.org...

"We conclude that the body of video we have reviewed contains data on at least 22 to 23 out of roughly 47 Desert Storm engagements. Of even greater significance, the video appears to include 17 to 18 out of roughly 30 engagements in Saudi Arabia. This indicates that there is a very substantial base of video information from which an assessment of Patriot's performance can be made.

We have found no convincing evidence in the video that any Scud warhead was destroyed by a Patriot."
www.fas.org... I think we can say with "assurity" it's the U.S. "SYSYTEMS" that are AS you PUT IT B.S.


[edit on 2-11-2008 by 1000hanz]

You're kidding! The Israeli's sent in commando's in advance to address these sites?

Gee, that will never again happen.

Or will it . . . ?

reply to post by dooper


Have you ever wondered why most of Russian Tech is heavy as hell? Maybe to disable EMP? In any case this time Israel will think twice before attacking Iran. I think Iran needs to ask Russia to deploy Russian peacekeepers around Iran... then Israel or even US will not be able to do anything! Don't think Russia will agree with that unless lots of money involved

Rogue... yeah 300 was not tested in combat... do you really want to test it? This system wont be used unless UN, US, or China invades Russia and as you can see Russia does not invade other countries to have Fake "War on Terrorism" BS.... and even if something like that to happen they would not use that type of system... so only way you can test it is by invading Russia... sure there is Iran but you will test S 300 vs some 2008 Tech... same way you tested all your new toys vs Russian old stuff... Saying that US has weapons that are battle proven vs Russian stuff is a bit lame... it is more like... US has weapons that were battle proven vs Old Russian stuff... that is what you should say... Russian new weapons can easily take out old American crap... what is your point? btw Russia does not invade other countries to play with old US crap...

Once again the S-300 has never been tested in combat, until it has it's performance is unknown. I never argued the patriot was better, but it has been tested in battle and seen to be defficient in certain areas. But these deficiencies have been remedied precisely because of the system being battle tested. The S-300 has never been battle tested so it is logical to assume as with all sytems that when it is used in combat it will be difficient in some places.
So for all those who hail the S-300 as some invincible system, you are seriously lacking analytical ability.

I doubt that Iran would request Russian "peacekeepers." After all, the Russians have quite a track record. Like ticks, once they get their heads in, it's a bitch to get rid of them. Russia has always been expansionist for gaining new territory, and that fact is not lost on the Iranians.

And whether or not Russians were in Iran, this would not affect any decisions to attack Iran. Just be a case of bad luck if any Russians were somehow killed.

Whether these new Russian systems are effective, able to be defeated, or just outright junk yet remains to be seen. If the Israeli's can defeat it, I'd love to see it. I've been watching them do that very thing since 1967.