PLEASE, Help Us....

Originally posted by Tomis_Nexis

Originally posted by euclid


Why are you so anti-human?

[edit on 6-8-2008 by euclid]

Anit-Human? Was I the one that posted the stupids should all be killed? Or certain humans should be killed? Nope, all I stated was that Humans cause more harm to themselves than any other entity on this planet. That is my view. And yes I believe Advanced Life has visited Earth in one way or another, I just have no proof to show anyone my beliefs, much like religion, as you said it proves Advanced Life.

If Advanced Life wanted us gone, I believe it would have already happened. Look how we treat the animal kingdom on Earth, we hunt them, we capture them from there habitats(abduct), we tag them for further research(probe) and we do our own flyby's to keep track of them(sightings).

Off topic question,
When is the last time you planted a tree for your planet? Which helps it a great deal.

Good, we have a common ground of understanding then. I don't have any proof either. But I do not blame humanity for anything that you perceive as being wrong with our civilization. We do not operate outside of Nature. We are part of Nature.

Take for example the UFO problem in the context of Nature.

Missing time, abductions, abductees scarred for life, channeled info of dubious origin. If these creatures were friendly they would not need to have a modus operandi or tactics that do this to people.

If they are nominally 100 million years advanced in technology compared to us then our weapons would be no match for them.... but if they exist they hide from us. Why? One reason - they are evil at worst or just not our friends at best.

If there is a GFL (i.e. friendly aliens that would help us) then that presumes that there is a Galactic Law, similar to how we have International Law on Earth. If there is Galactic Law and there are civilizations that are a members of this Federation then they have a duty to STOP encroachment on developing civilizations. If abductions are true, if cattle mutilations are true, if the human mutilations are true then this GFL is no more potent then the UN in regards to enforcing Galactic Law. Therefore they are either WEAK & POWERLESS to avert these violations of our planetary security/integrity at best or fully condone it and authorize it to take place at worst.

Thus my deduction that ALL ALIENS (if they exist) are evil and do not have our best interest as a species or civilization as a motivating factor. If they exist they see our planet as nothing more than a biological resource for galactic exploitation.

Now consider how Nature operates.

Well the one thing I'll say to that is just look at Nature. Really take a look at it. What do you see at all levels of Nature? Let's move up the "food chain" and the other observable features and functions of Nature:

1. Insects are territorial and will protect and kill each other. They also eat each other. Examples: spiders will kill other spiders that invade their space. They setup webs to capture insects to eat them. Ant colonies will war with other ant colonies that cross what ever arbitrary borders they have designated.

2. Birds eat insects and some birds eat other birds. Examples: sparrows, ravens, doves, pigeons all eat insects and what ever they can scrounge up outside of the Burger King - hawks and eagles eat other birds, their eggs, the other birds offspring and what ever they can scrounge up.

3. Fish eat insects and other fish and some even eat people and animals. Examples: trout, bass, and other lake and river fish eat insects and other little river and lake fish. The birds of prey: eagle specifically eat river and lake fish. Sharks and other aquatic predators eat any thing they can catch including humans.

4. Mammalian predators eat the passive mammals that are their prey. Lions and other large cats eat just about any "thing" they can catch including humans. Groups of primates will war with other groups of primates. When I had cable TV I was watching discovery channel and there were researchers in Africa studying some monkeys. They were shocked when the monkeys literally murdered one of their group. They showed documented footage of how one monkey went to others in the group. Then those members all went and got rocks and rather large sturdy sticks and killed another member of their group.

5. Humans eat anything - some times they even eat other humans.

6. Aliens? Logic would dictate that if aliens exists they would exhibit the exact same facilities for survival that all species would need, and must exhibit, if they are to survive.

War, murder, violent actions are part of Nature. These actions/functions of Life exist throughout the corpus of Sentient Life. They are survival mechanisms necessary for the propagation of Life and Species.

None of the above is "evil" in the moral sense they are all acts of survival in one way or another. Our minds may attribute the idea of "evil" to certain actions. In that sense, yes I attribute the idea that all aliens are evil; just like us. But that is really a misnomer. They seek to survive just like us so they CANNOT logically have the best interest of the human species as their primary motivating impetus. And if all the abduction events are true then their actions indicate an ulterior motive.

As I stated before there is no logical reason to assume that a species of greater intelligence or technological sophistication is any more benevolent then we are. They will have a different set of mores and values than we have. They are part of Nature as we are and Nature impels all sentient beings with the Will to Survive and that survival mechanism is bourne out in the same way across all species in Nature. It is a function of Nature.

Thus, my belief that the essence of the multiverse is Violent action. Now understand that from this Violent action things are born, life is carried on. It's the same thing as saying Life feeds on Life. Some "thing" must die so that something else can live. And there is no way that this function of Nature is not applied across all sentient life; here on this planet or on another. Every form of life must fight and kill to survive.

There is no reason to think aliens are any more friendly than us. War/violence/poverty/love/hate are all functions of Nature it will persist. We/they cannot change Nature.

-Euclid

[edit on 7-8-2008 by euclid]

reply to post by euclid


your points about aliens are somewhat valid as i now believe. the most agressive amoungst them will usually come to dominate the rest,hence be the first to really aquire power.
however there are those who are highly coperative and would usually band together and form an equally powerfull opposing
force,thus why we may have what we percieve to be malevolent species such as our beloved greys,thier allies
and the rest who will probably outnumber them but be less inclined to conflict.

it may also be possible that earth is in a unique cosmic evolutionary position,meaning the malevolent ones may be our only nearby neighbours who arnt yet higly advanced(say from sirius etc) and then there are those who are capable of reaching us from further field due to thier high level of advancement and such beings may have a code of ethics against intervention.perhaps because the have the power to make everything right everywhere they somehow prefer
to let things play out.maybe there keeping a leesh on the grays,i mean there not exactly causing all out war?,so maybe
some higher ones are holding them back.

your points on natural survival-yes most life as we know it is in conflict with other life to survive,to out evolve them.it
is highly effective,yet what one must consider is there a better alternative?,can coperation between species create more
benifit to the self and if you believe it to others aswell?.i believe the answer is yes,if you look at ecosystems many species interact without conflict and realise between them the same objectives.

so yes the attributes you describe are part of nature due to the need to feed oneself and survive,but so are actions/systems that reduce/minimilize harm to others.

so once again we are left with the evolutionary split between those who are willing to harm others for benifit and those,ie agression and the method
of utmost co operation.these two methods are the two most effictive and will probably mirror themselves throughout life,i mean look at left wing vs right wing politics,same thing!!!!

lastly when one gets to an extremely advanced state i believe there would be no need for competition or even co operation,you have all you need,youve discovered all knowledge,seen it all
the goal posts completely shift.
and probably by this stage you have become a unique being,not part of a species but one unto oneself.


[edit on 7-8-2008 by welivefortheson]

[edit on 7-8-2008 by welivefortheson]

I respect your opinion. But once again, Nature of our world, and that's all we know.

From your above post, it's Human Logic from what's seen and done on this planet by it's inhabitants. Are we any better with the animal kingdom? Like I said many times, I believe, Advanced life would be more interested in the fact Earth can sustain life rather then the inhabitants on it. With that said, Advanced life could rid the world of us, but did they? Evil, only in the eyes of people that fear the fact that they are inferior when compared to the unknown. But look at Man's history, people always go into the unknown to learn, as I hope one day you may think somewhat I see what I see.

You stated why would they hide from us? Which I can't answer because how am I supposed to know? But coming to the conclusion that they're evil from what's seen and occurred on Earth by it's inhabitants is rather ignorant.


Look at our world, our belief systems which shuns outside life by the majority, look at religions on religions, we've been put in this mind set that we are all knowing and the greatest, yet we can't launch a space shuttle or land one with out if blowing up a quarter of the time.

What you stated is your last post of the food chain is fine, for Earth, but that doesn't mean every planet that sustains life has the same rules.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Tomis_Nexis]

reply to post by Tomis_Nexis


Thanks Tomis, I was expecting that response and just ran out of space in last post. The idea doesn't stop with just sentient beings. It is the essence of Nature.

Let's just look at the ladder of reality:

1. Quantum particles (sub-atomic level of existence) - these particles don't just get smashed together by humans in nuclear accelerators like CERN. They smash into themselves all the time. Continuously. It is what creates all that we see around us. Little sub-atomic particles colliding together, annihalating each other and in the process producing other partcles that bind together and create matter. In essence the particles kill each other and give birth at the same time.

2. Molecular level of existence - All the cells in the body are little organisms; lifeforms. Each eats and has an individual life span. Together they comprise various things; like a human. The human at a molecular level has built in defense systems that protect it from fungi, bacteria, virii, and other foreign intruders. These foreign intruders seek one thing... to kill us... not because they hate us. Only because they wish to survive. Cancer, HIV, small pox - all of them are little life forms that seek a host so that they can live. In order to do that they kill the host in the process.

3. Humans level of existence - All humans as afore mentioned have the innate will to exist and survive.

4. Planets - Planets (if one believes it) are a distinct system and aggregation of sub-systems that represents its own own form of life. It has violent erputions, weather patterns, tectonic plate movements that can be viewed as natural processes that the planet uses to create balance within it's system/s. It may sometimes causes the deaths of sentient beings on its surface in order to obtain this balance.

5. Solar systems - celestial mechanics dictates that the motions and movements of celestial objects will necessarily collide from time to time. These collisions cause massive destruction to any sentient and non-sentient life forms inhabiting a solar system capable of producing life. In some cases these impacts caused by asteriods and other objects cause the rebirth of life.

6. Galaxies - Galaxies collide and some even self destruct. Any sentient or non-sentient life in those galaxies are destroyed. It is possible that this destruction leads to the rebirth of life.

Again the violent self-destructive nature of reality occurs at all levels of existence.

Morality, philosophy all things exhibit the same pattern. It isn't isolated to humans and our planet. It is every where and in all things. It's what the Yin Yang symbol represents. The two halves are Death/Birth, destruction/construction, evil/good; notice that within each half is the corresponding little circle of the opposing side. It is there for a reason; it means that within the one is the essence of the other.

So, aliens (if they exist) will be technologically more advanced then us, have a completely different set of mores and values and their view of us may be benevolent from their perspective; but not from ours. They will be like us and we will be like them. Only they will have better weapons.

-Euclid

[edit on 7-8-2008 by euclid]

reply to post by euclid

Understood?

I understand that if you had left the first two sentences off of your point #2, there wouldn't have been a question. Its not necessary to be rude.

Originally posted by Tomis_Nexis

You stated why would they hide from us? Which I can't answer because how am I supposed to know? But coming to the conclusion that they're evil from what's seen and occurred on Earth by it's inhabitants is rather ignorant.

Well, they do in a sense "hide" from us. If we consider that some of the UFO sightings and abductions are real then they exhibit military tactics. I was in the military and I understand how any "enemy" would operate.

1. Psychological warfare - we do it by using media propaganda, finding people inside the enemy's area of operations and convincing them that we are good and the people they are serving are bad. Well that almost sounds like an abduction scenario...... The aliens pick up some one. Put them in a catatonic state, examine them, implant false memories of the abduction. Leave them with a message of peace, love and understanding.... so that they now have an "operative" within their enemy's camp. They do this under the vail of darkness, hidden. They do it against the will of the people the abduct. How in any way can this be viewed as "friendly"? How can it be viewed as "spiritually enlightened"?

Then their operatives spread the "word" that the aliens are super spiritually enlightened beings that only wish to help us rise above our human nature" - causing others to believe who have never had an experience with aliens. And in the process creating an bunch of people who embrace the enemy of humanity with open arms.... and look forward to it.

2. Ignorance - is the condition of being uninformed or uneducated, lacking knowledge or information. I am none of those things. I have a wide and varied knowledge of many subjects. I am an excellent analyst and recognize patterns very easily. There is a pattern in the UFO problem that more and more people are becoming aware of.... I recently read a news article that some scientists now think it may have been very naive to have put so much information on the Voyager spacecraft; especially the information about the crafts originating location.

The pattern of alleged alien interactions with humans is dubious at best and indicative of some ulterior motives on their part.

And as I said in the previous post the designation of "evil" is my personal perception and a misnomer. They will be functionally Violent towards us because that is the pattern they have established and it is the pattern of Nature and I percieve their Violence toward our people as EVIL.

And I'm not ignorant.....

But I know who is that and naive.

-Euclid

[edit on 7-8-2008 by euclid]

[edit on 7-8-2008 by euclid]

reply to post by Aislin


UMmmmmmm... I don't get it. What makes you think I was being rude? Really. I don't see any thing that I would construe as rude in any post to you thus far.



-Euclid

Originally posted by Tomis_Nexis

What you stated is your last post of the food chain is fine, for Earth, but that doesn't mean every planet that sustains life has the same rules.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Tomis_Nexis]

Actually, it does. I look at things from a system level. When examining any thing from a system level it doesn't matter what kind of system it is. It could be organic, inorganic, electronic, digitical, analog, information, it doesn't matter. A system functions as a system no matter the what. Every system has inputs, outputs, logic, gates, XORs, et cetera.

Any system whether it is self-organizing or designed and implemented by an external agency will function according to elementary laws of Nature (which would include all the sciences we currently are studying). We don't understand very much about those yet as a species but just because we don't understand doesn't mean we operate outside of them. And just because an alien species may understand more than we do about the law of Nature doesn't necessarily mean that they will be able to operate outside of Nature.

Life feeds on Life. Doesn't matter whether it is based on carbon, nitrogen, plasma, hydrogen, silicon, what-ever..... it will need to sustain it self and it will do what ever that takes.

-Euclid

reply to post by xbranscombex


Here's a theory. You mentioned indigo shildren, massive worldwide uso sightings, etc. There are also thousands of people, some very high profile and credible, who claim to have experienced personal encounters with off world beings themselves, both positive and negative. And most of these beings don't look like us. What about the ones that do? They could blend in easily. Your next door neighbor may be from another star system, for all you know. Perhaps the developments on this planet are being very closely observed by MANY advanced beings.

Spiritually, we are toddlers. Say your big brother and sister are babysitting for Mom and Dad and are watching Junior playing with his toys. They don't want to disturb Junior's playing, because that's how children learn about their world. Suddenly, Uncle Pervy walks in the room. Bro and Sis wouldn't dare leave Uncle Pervy alone with Junior, but he's not really doing anything wrong and he is family so they let him stay. Suddenly, Uncle Pervy pulls out a gun and gives it to Junior to play with. He says it's not loaded and there's no harm in it. Shocked, the older siblings call Mom and Dad, who tell them to take the gun away from Junior, and kick Uncle Pervy out of the house. And that's what they do.

Apply the above scenario to the topic at hand. Perhaps there is some kind of non intervention policy honored by most of the galactic community so that diverse species in their beginning sentient stages can evolve naturally without inteference. But what happens if the prime directive is violated, and that our natural evolution has been tampered with in some way by technologically advanced beings, and not for our benefit, or we were given knowledge we were not spiritually mature enough to handle responsibly. The result would be our failure as a species to develop spiritually at the same rate we develop technologically, hence irresponsible use of that technology. Such interference in our natural development mght require nullification of a non intervention policy and at least indirect intervention by more spiritually mature advanced beings to rectify the imbalance. An example of this would be accelerated evolution that is beneficial to our species, as evidenced in some of the incredible abilities exhibited by Indigo children.

I've seen hundereds of posts on this site alone from people who describe udergoing, or having undergone, an intense shift in consciusness or "awakening" within themselves. I feel it in myself. People all over the world are experiencing this. And people all over the world feel this spiritual transformation is being enhanced in some way by spiritually advanced beings, whether off world or interdimensional. Perhaps we are already being helped, and this is just the beginning. The signs are there.

Maybe there will be direct intervention from the good guys, or maybe we're all getting a crash course in spirital enlightenment so we can learn how to be our own saviors. It doesn't matter. It's time for us to change as a species, and it's time for us as a species to change the world.