The North Side Flyover - Officially Documented, Independently Confirmed

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by discombobulator
But please, by all means, please tell us more about this missile attack.

What's the matter? You don't believe good ol' Rummy?

Craig Ranke doesn't, and he's the one pushing the Pentagon conspiracy theory.

Even Loose Change: Final Cut backs away from the missile claim, with all references to the Global Hawk removed.

Why do you think that is?

[edit on 12-8-2008 by discombobulator]

Fantastic!

I watched the events of that day,with my dad,live.
Our first reaction was....well,gobsmacked,it all seemed so unreal.
But as the day wore on we noticed several things that didn't seem to add up.

One of them was the lampposts at the Pentagon.

Going off the "official" route of the plane,we noticed that,even though the plane had (supposedly) been hugging the ground,the lampposts on this flight path were still standing!

The next day things became more interesting.

Some of those very same lampposts were now shown lying in the street,tore up from the impact of the planes wings.

Curious.





For those talking about a missile hitting the building you may find this interesting.

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was interviewed on 12 October 2001

"It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them."

www.the7thfire.com...






[edit on 12-8-2008 by jakyll]

Originally posted by tide88

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center.

Unless of course he mispoke and meant "American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, as a missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center

Definitly a possibility. I mean and the missle makes no sense in that sentence. We all know he and Bush both have trouble with the english language.

That's probably it.

Originally posted by jakyll

But as the day wore on we noticed several things that didn't seem to add up.

One of them was the lampposts at the Pentagon.

Going off the "official" route of the plane,we noticed that,even though the plane had (supposedly) been hugging the ground,the lampposts on this flight path were still standing!

The next day things became more interesting.

Some of those very same lampposts were now shown lying in the street,tore up from the impact of the planes wings.

Interesting. Could you please look at the following image. The light poles that were knocked down are numbered 1 through 5.



Could you please identify which poles were standing on the day of the attack, and were then laying down the following day.

Oh good, a reference to Mike Walter, another witness who seems to have trouble distinguishing between a 100 ton commercial jet and a "cruise missile with wings:"

QUESTION: As you know, a descriptive phrase you used was taken to mean an aircraft didn't strike the Pentagon. How has this affected you?

MIKE WALTER: I don’t really remember the questions that were asked that day, I don’t really even remember what my answers were. The day became a blur really. But I do remember using a metaphor to describe what happened. I indicated to Jamie that the jet had become a weapon that day. I said it was like a cruise missile with wings. I never imagined for a moment that a statement like that would come back to haunt me over and over again. A French author would come out with a book describing in detail the conspiracy theory and he would use that quote out of context to help promote his conclusions. I was very angry about all of this, and I remain angry about it today. I’m also upset that so many people lost their lives that day and while some people who have written about that tragic day have donated any and all proceeds to the victims of 9-11, he has capitalized on it to make an awful lot of money. His book went on to be a best seller in France. My suggestion, buy “Covering Catastrophe” instead. It was written by the reporters who were there in Arlington, and in New York, and in Pennsylvania. The conclusion in the French book is absurd. I saw the jet; there is no doubt in my mind it was a jet that slammed into the Pentagon. As a result of his book I’ve been interviewed by both print and television reporters from France, and England. Recently on the anniversary of that terrible day I was once again interviewed for a documentary in Japan on this same issue.

QUESTION: What was your impression of the aircraft and its maneuver?

MIKE WALTER: I don’t know very much about aviation. There’s an irony to this since my father worked at Lockheed. I have a vivid memory as a child of going to an air show with my father and him describing to me the various makes of the jets. But to me for whatever reason I just have never spent a lot of time trying to discern the differences. I knew it was a big commercial airline. I saw the AA on the side so I knew it was an American Airlines passenger jet. I was surprised at how graceful and slow the banking of the jet appeared to be, and how quickly it accelerated after it had lined up the Pentagon.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


The stupidity of the underlying accusation you are making with these quotes is that these alleged paid disinformation agents got in front of the camera and accidentally told "the truth".

People even described the WTC impact jets as missiles.

reply to post by discombobulator

No, unlike yourself, I don't think they're paid disinformation agents.

But I firmly believe the truth is frequently revealed in the earliest MSM reports, before the "official story" propaganda engulfs everything.

Like these initial 9/11 reports:

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by discombobulator

 

No, unlike yourself, I don't think they're paid disinformation agents.

I never said I believed they were paid disinformation agents. Maybe you might want to see CIT's The USA Today Parade video to see where the allegation comes from.

Furthermore, you've just been busted quote mining.

Again.

"I was sitting in the northbound on 27 and the traffic was, you know, typical rush-hour -- it had ground to a standstill. I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up, it's really low.'

"And I saw it. I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon.

"Huge explosion, great ball of fire, smoke started billowing out. And then it was chaos on the highway as people tried to either move around the traffic and go down, either forward or backward.

"We had a lady in front of me, who was backing up and screaming, 'Everybody go back, go back, they've hit the Pentagon.'

"It was just sheer terror."

You fail.

reply to post by discombobulator

Could you please identify which poles were standing on the day of the attack, and were then laying down the following day.

I'm not talking about the lampposts from the motorway,but the ones in the grounds of the Pentagon itself.

911exposed.org...

Scroll down to the black and white picture.
Can you see how a plane made it through all these still standing lampposts?

The next day,i can't remember how many,several were lying on the lawn.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by discombobulator

 

Could you please identify which poles were standing on the day of the attack, and were then laying down the following day.

I'm not talking about the lampposts from the motorway,but the ones in the grounds of the Pentagon itself.

911exposed.org...

Scroll down to the black and white picture.
Can you see how a plane made it through all these still standing lampposts?

The next day,i can't remember how many,several were lying on the lawn.

Excellent find, Jakyll. This is exactly what I'm talking about in paying attention to evidence from the earliest reports:


Numerous lampposts still seem to obstruct the path
(Photos: (top left) AP/Dylan Moore (others) letsroll911.org).


Lamppost bases had their bolts cut.




[edit on 12-8-2008 by GoldenFleece]

reply to post by GoldenFleece

I indicated to Jamie that the jet had become a weapon that day. I said it was like a cruise missile with wings

The jet had become a weapon, hence the cruise missle comment. A cruise missle is a weapon. A Jet has Wings. The jet was used as a weapon (i.e. a cruise missle). You take his words too literally. Definition of literal: taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegoryLITERAL
When actually he was using the cruise missle as a simile to compare the two things. another example of a simile: she is like a rose. I am pretty sure that person is not describing the person looking like a rose or is has mistaken that person to look like a rose. Just curious, what is your education level? Or he was using it as a metaphor.



[edit on 12-8-2008 by tide88]

No Fleece, I'm not a debunker, but I can read, just like anyone else. Are you saying all these folks are lying?

"When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him."


I'd call this "debri on the lawn":

www.debunk911myths.org...

Are all these witnesses lying? Or just really stupid? :

Richard Benedetto: "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly."
Omar Campo, a Salvadorean" "It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane. I was cutting grass and it came in screaming over my head."
Joseph Candelario: "I noticed a large aircraft flying low towards the White House. This aircraft then made a sharp turn and flew towards the Pentagon and seconds later crashed into it."
James Cissell: "I saw this plane coming in and it was low - and getting lower. ... Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board."
Dennis Clem: "There was a commercial airliner that said American Airliners over the side of it flying at just above treetop height at full speed headed for the Pentagon."
Michael Dobbs: "It was an American airlines airliner. I was looking out the window and saw it come right over the Navy annex at a slow angle."
Penny Elgas: "... the plane was directly over the cars in front of my car .... I remember recognizing it as an American Airlines plane -- I could see the windows and the color stripes."
Cheryl Hammond: "We saw the big American Airlines plane and started running."
Joe Harrington: "... one of my guys pointed to an American Airlines airplane 20 feet high over Washington Blvd."
Albert Hemphill: "The aircraft, look[ed] to be either a 757 or Airbus."
Terrance Kean: "I saw this very, very large passenger jet. It just plowed right into the side of the Pentagon."
William Lagasse: "It was close enough that I could see the windows and the blinds had been pulled down. I read American Airlines on it. ... I saw the aircraft above my head about 80 feet above the ground."
Robert Leonard: "I ... saw a large commercial aircraft aiming for the Pentagon."
Lincoln Liebner: "I saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low."
Elaine McCusker: "I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating."
Mitch Mitchell: "I ... saw, coming straight down the road at us, a huge jet plane clearly with American Airlines written on it .... It crossed about 100 feet in front of us and at about 20 feet altitude and we watched it go in. It struck the Pentagon."
Terry Morin: "The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines."
Christopher Munsey: "I couldn't believe what I was now seeing to my right: a silver, twin-engine American Airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex, fast, low and straight toward the Pentagon ...."
Vin Narayanan: "I looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet."
John O'Keefe: "I don't know whether I saw or heard it first -- this silver plane; I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet ...."
Steve Riskus: "I was close enough (about 100 feet or so) that I could see the ‘American Airlines' logo on the tail as it headed towards the building .... I clearly saw the ‘AA' logo with the eagle in the middle."
James Ryan: "I see an American Airlines plane, silver plane, I could see AA on the tail. ... The plane was low enough that I could see the windows of the plane. I could see every detail of the plane. In my head I have ingrained forever this image of every detail of that plane. It was a silver plane, American Airlines plane, and I recognized it immediately as a passenger plane."
Joel Sucherman: "... looking straight ahead there was a jet, what looked to be an American Airlines jet, probably a 757, and it came screaming across the highway ... [and] hit the west side of the Pentagon."
Donald "Tim" Timmerman, a pilot: "I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon ... and so I have quite a panorama. ... It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question."
Mike Walter: "I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. ... It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon. I saw the big ‘AA' on the side."
Ian Wyatt: "I duck, I look up, it looks like a silver American Airlines, twin-engine plane and then boom."

So this is entirely bunk?:

A team of more than 100 forensic specialists and others identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 onboard American Airlines flight 77). All but one of the passengers onboard American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims.

How about:

Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

Is he in on it to?

I don't have to debunk. I just dig up pictures, eyewitness accounts, and facts. There is plenty more. I guess you are just going to be of one mind when you say: "that's not debris!" when it clearly is. I'm LOOKING AT DEBRIS. You can even see parts with the AA stripe on it. So in accordance with your conspiracy theory, WHO PUT THOSE THERE, AND WHEN?

I am not a debunker, but you are quite adept at avoiding the facts, or deflecting them with exceptionally flimsy logic.

Originally posted by jakyll

I'm not talking about the lampposts from the motorway,but the ones in the grounds of the Pentagon itself.

So you're talking about Pole 5 then.

None of the lightpoles shown in the black and white photos were either knocked down by the incoming jet or underneath the "official" flight path of the plane.

The high resolution Jason Ingersoll photos taken mere moments after the impact show that the five poles are no longer standing in their correct positions.

Can you see how a plane made it through all these still standing lampposts?

No, because those poles aren't the ones that were identified as having been knocked over by the incoming jet.

Originally posted by discombobulator
Originally posted by jakyll

Can you see how a plane made it through all these still standing lampposts?

No, because those poles aren't the ones that were identified as having been knocked over by the incoming jet.

Yeah, right! Take a look at those lampposts in the above photos standing right in the path of a missile, err, Flight 77.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by discombobulator
Originally posted by jakyll

Can you see how a plane made it through all these still standing lampposts?

No, because those poles aren't the ones that were identified as having been knocked over by the incoming jet.

Yeah, right! Take a look at those lampposts in the above photos standing right in the path of a missile, err, Flight 77.

www.dodmedia.osd.mil...

THAT is the angle of approach. Please demonstrate which still standing light poles are blocking the approach of the AA jet.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Excellent find, Jakyll. This is exactly what I'm talking about in paying attention to evidence from the earliest reports:

Numerous lampposts still seem to obstruct the path
(Photos: (top left) AP/Dylan Moore (others) letsroll911.org).

They would have obstructed the flight path had they actually been in the way.

The big clue in these four photos is the overhead sign.

The overhead sign adjacent to Pole 1 (which is clearly not standing in the Ingersoll photos) has a wall at either side, is surrounded by trees and has a VDOT pole about 5 yards to it's right.

The overhead sign shown in the four black and white photos doesn't bear any of these characteristics, and is in approximately 170 yards further north on Route 27 than the overhead sign that is immediately adjacent to the "official" flight path.

Maybe you didn't see my post a few pages back.

STOP the Name calling and bickering.

Stay ON TOPIC.

CIT, props to you guys.

Your original witnesses locating plane position from under the CITGO awning were the most solid; now further supported by these new folks. GREAT JOB!

What’s that I smell – 911 official story decaying.