The North Side Flyover - Officially Documented, Independently Confirmed

Originally posted by talisman
Again, the skeptics here continually concentrate their efforts on the "Fly Over" and the "Impossible Flight Path".

Well again, this does not explain the eyewitnesses who have pretty well all agreed that the plane flew on the North Side.

So you proved me right. You are unable to deal with the fact that there are no eyewitness accounts of a flyover from the other side of the Pentagon.

One CIT believer down.

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
reply to post by Reheat

 

Since you are so obsessed with the math, have you ever done the math to prove the official flight path is possible?

No, I'm not obsessed with math at all. However, it is quite obvious that you are obsessed with changing the topic of the thread as this is at least the third time you've tried to do that.

The OP witness testimony does not require for a single fly over witness. They all place the plane on the north side of Citgo, this is impossible if the official flight path is true(see my previous post for the impossibility of the official flight path mathematically). Not one flyover witness is needed to prove the official flight path fraudulent.
Furthermore, you have not provided one independently verified 1st hand eye witness account that agrees with the official flight path of the plane.
It's quite clear you are a goal post mover. You claimed there wasn't a single witness to the fly over, now Craig has verified the flyover witness and you want dozens more. When will the goal posts stop moving?

reply to post by Reheat


It is no more off topic than any of your posts in this thread. When are you going to start addressing the evidence presented in this thread?

I really wanted this to be the smoking gun!

My first post on this thread had me as a CIT believer (if that is what you call it)

If there is a gun.....it hasn't been found.

1) I need to know what happened to the people on that flight if they did not die at the pentagon. that void needs to be filled if the fly over theory is going to work.

2) We need some witnesses that saw the damn plane actually fly over. There just isn't a way around that.

So until those answers are provided....that guy can add me to the another CIT believer down. ( but I still want the proof that damns this administration so keep at it truthers!)

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
reply to post by Reheat

 

It is no more off topic than any of your posts in this thread. When are you going to start addressing the evidence presented in this thread?

The topic is CIT's "North Side Flyover - Offiicially Documented, Independently Confirmed" bunch of hogwash. Or can't you read English?

I've address the "evidence" repeatedly and proved it a bunch of malarkey although you keep trying to change the topic to something you'd prefer.

If it's so solid and irrefutable quadruple scientifically corraborated poof, why is it still only being discussed in silly Internet Forums? Do you not want a Pulitzer Prize?

Seems to me it's poof of mass murder at the Pentagon and should be in a Court Room with the "perp" being brought to justice. That is.....if it were true, which it isn't.

BTW, you're boring and don't seem to want to discuss the relevant subject so I won't reply to more of your nonsense. Good Bye!

I don't know how my posts are non sense, but I am glad that you will stop posting. Now we can get back to the topic at hand and stop getting distracted with your claims of impossible flight paths.
Witnesses independently verified seeing the plane on the north of Citgo- check
One newly independently verified official documented flyover witness- check.
'The North Side Flyover- Officially Documented, Independently Confirmed'- check. Don't see what problem you guys are having accepting the evidence provided in the op by CIT.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa......

1) I need to know what happened to the people on that flight if they did not die at the pentagon. that void needs to be filled if the fly over theory is going to work.

Oh, you haven't heard about the corpse detail that planted body parts while the building was undergoing a raging fire. One even handled a body burned to a crisp strapped into an airline seat. They did all of that when the firefighters couldn't even enter the fire plagued building. And to believe that there were thousands of people around who didn't even notice.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
2) We need some witnesses that saw the damn plane actually fly over. There just isn't a way around that.

All you have to do is use your imagination and misconstrue a few statements and one will appear. If you lead them enough you might even get them to say what you want.

But, in the end someone will likely find that any aircraft would already be grossly over G'd, well beyond it's limits to even make the proposed turn, let alone have enough G available to pull up over the building. And then you really hope no one noticed as it crashed from the stall.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Reheat]

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


bravo. this is incredible. keep doing fantastic job.
this is the only way to fight a tsunami of lies we
are fed up daily.

thank you!

Originally posted by EvanSent

I find it fascinating that CIT believers miss the point entirely. Let's have a lesson in reality:

You sound condascending and lose debate points when you act like that. Assuming your opponent is not grounded in reality is your first mistake.

Sorry, your arrogance and numerous, repeated insults to our intelligence is showing. There is actually no debate here, as you well know. We only discuss facts and you only avoid them.

It does not matter what flightpath CIT claims.

You are right. Because the witnesses all saw the plane on the north side of the Citgo. It is not CIT's claim, but what the witnesses saw.

I find it amusing that you would insult readers' intelligence by claiming that witnesses on the attack side were also witnesses beyond the Pentagon. Do you actually think you can treat readers here that way?

It does not matter what Roosevelt saw or thought he saw.

Oh it doesn't? So all those times you all asked CIT for just one flyover witness, you all were just getting ready to move the goal posts again? This is a far cry from what you guys wanted before.

You understand, of course, that Roosevelt was not on the "far side of the Pentagon." It's just too painful to have to admit that CIT moved the goalposts from my repeated question of 2 years, isn't it?

Are you even the slightest bit embarrassed that CIT claims AA77 flew over the Pentagon at 100ft altitude, at high speed and at high power enough to make a person duck, yet can not YET produce an eyewitness that I requested anywhere along any flight path away from the Pentagon. Or are you just quite remarkably ignorant of reality?

NO claim of a flyover is possible until and unless CIT produces eyewitness testimony from the many hundreds of people who were in a position BEYOND the Pentagon to see a low flying, fast moving, loud twin-engine jet as it moved away from the Pentagon.

These silly demands are getting out of hand now. This is not your investigation, and you are certainly not the jury CIT is trying to convince.

That's the funniest statement I've heard in a long time! Both Craig and Aldo have DEMANDED that I do their investigation for them if I don't believe them. Funnier still is your acceptance of the blatantly idiotic statement that one "owns" an investigation so "one" can exclude any evidence "one" wants.

You continually make grandiose demands that fall short of impossible if not incredibly daunting and almost entirely fruitless.

Translation: it's ok to find witnesses to support one's case but impossible to find other witnesses. I can't believe you actually wrote that ridiculous statement.

CIT doesn't need to produce anymore than they have, witnesses and supporting data to a north of Citgo flight path, pull up, and flyover.

According to whom? According to WHAT standard of evidence? Sorry, this is the REAL world. CIT does NOT get to choose what is evidence.

Do you CIT believers ended to hide under a rock and NOT address that salient fact?

Do you think adding the word 'salient' makes your silly demands seem valid or even sane?

Do you think pretending that evidence doesn't count is actually "sane?'

Why do you think Ranke is AVOIDING anything to do with a necessary condition of a flyover scenario?

Why do you lie and use words like "avoid" and "refuses" and slant all of your posts in order to mislead the reader?

Ranke said so. So he is misleading the reader. Duh.

your demands grow more preposterous the more evidence CIT collects. You are what they call a goal post mover, Jthomas and a very volatile and deceptive one at that.

I am happy to translate your CITspeak: CIT can't refute the existence of thousands of potential eyewitnesses to a flyover.

I already knew that. Now everybody willing to deal with the evidence does too.

Why do you think his speculated flight path does not extend beyond the Pentagon?

Um, because they didn't get to interview Roosevelt on camera and

No. Because you dare not project any flight path any further because ANY flight path away from the Pentagon means thousands of potential eyewitnesses in a position to see a "flyover."

Why do you think jthomas won't interview any of the witnesses who saw the plane on the north side of the Citgo? Why do think he won't try and interview any south side witnesses on location, on camera? Why do you think jthomas is a nameless, faceless individual who refuses to contact eyewitnesses,...

Astute readers will note your admonition above: "This is not your investigation..." Hows that for sticking your foot in your mouth, EvanSent?

Why do you think Craig refuses in this very thread to deal with a flight path after the supposed "flyover?"

How do you suppose he goes about that? Slide the picture & marker under Roosevelt's door after he closed it?

You already know that there would have to be hundreds of eyewitnesses beyond the Pentagon. So you're claiming that CIT can't find eyewitnesses? Just what kind of "investigators" are these amateurs, anyway?

Why do you think he relies exclusively on witnesses who were on the side where the explosion occurred but absolutely, categorically refuses to deal with the necessary implications of a flyover: hundreds of eyewitnesses in a geographic area of thousands of people.

Stop lying jthomas, CIT never refused anything.

Yes, he has refused to interview key eyewitnesses for 2 years and not only flyover witnesses. Don't tell me your too dumb to know that?

Craig relies on witnesses on the impact side and he is wrong for that.

I KNOW he is wrong. Glad you agree.

Are you all going to sit there and continue to pretend it doesn't matter? Who will be the first of you CIT believers to step up to the plate and deal with the necessary IMPLICATIONS of a flyover? CIT will NOT do it. It cannot afford to because it cannot find a single witness anywhere who would have easily seen such an unusual event.

So, get out your maps, and plot where YOU think a 757 would go.

Yes, jthomas said a whole of nothing, yet framed it as if Craig was guilty of intentionally avoiding evidence. While he provides no clues as to how CIT is supposed to find the "hundreds of eyewitnesses in a geographic area of thousands of people."

Gosh. And I though that this was supposed to be CIT's investigation. And we all thought CIT were supposed to be "investigators."

I guess it never dawned on our poor innocent EvanSent that had a flyover occurred at the 100ft CIT claims, and on any flight path, at the high speed it was going, and at the noise level of turbines at full throttle, and over highly populated areas, over and near heavily traveled freeways and bridges, that there would not have been hundreds of people who witnessed and reported to the media what in freak they saw and that we wouldn't have had many reports from that very day of a flyover?

Is that what you are trying to have us believe, much less that CIT could not possibly find one of them even if they had to advertise for eyewitnesses?

I thank you, EvanSent, for one of the most revealing posts of how 9/11 Truthers are so prone to believing what they want to hear and believe, to hell with any impossibility or implausibility of what they want to believe.

It's hard to imagine how a plane could be seen to "fly over" the Pentagon from witnesses on one side of the Pentagon but magically, as if a flying saucer sucked AA77 up unseen to anyone as it flew over the Pentagon, not one person for miles on end ever saw AA77 appear from the other side.

Yet you believe it.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I really wanted this to be the smoking gun!

My first post on this thread had me as a CIT believer (if that is what you call it)

If there is a gun.....it hasn't been found.

1) I need to know what happened to the people on that flight if they did not die at the pentagon. that void needs to be filled if the fly over theory is going to work.

2) We need some witnesses that saw the damn plane actually fly over. There just isn't a way around that.

So until those answers are provided....that guy can add me to the another CIT believer down. ( but I still want the proof that damns this administration so keep at it truthers!)

You're catching on. Keep thinking hard.

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Leo Strauss

If you understand this, you now realize how stoopid and ridiculous this whole NoC proposal really is......

I find the eyewitnesses extremely credible and convincing. Especially multiple witnesses independently corroborating each others version of events.

It is obvious the official NTSB flight path does not match. This is another glaring 9/11 contradiction among many. If only the government would release conclusive video evidence. I won't hold my breath.

I think CIT has presented compelling evidence for a North of Citgo flight path. However in my opinion the flyover theory is speculative at this point.

But "North of Citgo" is enough for me to cast the entire official version of events into suspicion. My 2 cents.

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
I don't know how my posts are non sense, but I am glad that you will stop posting. Now we can get back to the topic at hand and stop getting distracted with your claims of impossible flight paths.
Witnesses independently verified seeing the plane on the north of Citgo- check
One newly independently verified official documented flyover witness- check.
'The North Side Flyover- Officially Documented, Independently Confirmed'- check. Don't see what problem you guys are having accepting the evidence provided in the op by CIT.

No eyewitnesses to a flyover beyond the Pentagon - check
No flyover possible over a population of thousands without being seen - check
AA77 must have been sucked up by a flying saucer to explain lack of eyewitnesses - check.
CIT refuted - check.
CIT to close shop in near future - check.
Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis to apologize to us for insulting our intellience - pending.
CIT to apologize to families of victims of 9/11 - pending.

Any questions, PplVSNWO?

Originally posted by emsed1
Well please forgive me saying that your continued refusal to answer clear and simple questions leads me to believe that you are only here to sell your $25 DVD.

Again this is only my opinion, but I am disappointed that you would try and sell a $25 video to make a buck while dishonoring the memories of friends and family that died on Flight 77 as it crashed into the Pentagon.

Read the opening posts. The questions are answered there. Great thread Craig.

Don't buy anything. You pseudoskeptics can download Parts One and Two for free, and then burn them to your own DVD, and hold a mock burning of the North of Citgo eyewitnesses at the stake. You are not interested in the facts anyway. Maybe Dubya will join you or even allow you to use the Statue of Molech at the next Skull & Bones gathering.

No aircraft crashed into the Pentagon and no occupants of Flight 77 died at the Pentagon. However there were many deliberately targeted Pentagon intelligence personnel from DIA and ONI and Naval Intelligence and don't forget the auditors for the missing $2.3 Trillion DOD funds who were murdered there also. To seek the truth and obtain justice for them honors their memories. A person would think that you also would seek the truth and justice for your friends and family allegedly aboard Flight 77. Why not? You certainly have not received any truth nor justice from the Bush Regime whatsoever.

This Official Flight 77 flight path position is IMPOSSIBLE from over the Navy Annex and North of the Citgo


This Official Flight 77 flight path position is IMPOSSIBLE from over the Navy Annex and North of the Citgo
news.uns.purdue.edu...


[edit on 8/7/08 by SPreston]

[edit on 8/7/08 by SPreston]

I finally found the page that handed Craig and his sock puppet their collective asses over this pile of crap.

arabesque911.blogspot.com... uis-and.html

and

arabesque911.blogspot.com... -pentacon-smoking-gun.html

Arabesque totally refutes every single stupid claim these guys have made and came to the same conclusion we did.

CIT is dead.

And with that final pronunciation let us remember the Citizens Investigative Team.

"For as much as CIT has pleased Almighty Craig, in His wise providence, to take out of this world the soul of our deceased conspiracy, we therefore commit his rather amateurish living room video to the ground, earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust, looking for the general shame at the last day and the life of the $25 DVD to come, when the CIT and the SockPuppett shall give up their hoax."

Amen.

This is EvanSent apparently I am having password/log-in issues. So I will have to make this brief until this is resolved or until I can post another anonymous post.

I really wanted this to be the smoking gun!

My first post on this thread had me as a CIT believer (if that is what you call it)

If there is a gun.....it hasn't been found.

1) I need to know what happened to the people on that flight if they did not die at the pentagon. that void needs to be filled if the fly over theory is going to work.

2) We need some witnesses that saw the damn plane actually fly over. There just isn't a way around that.

So until those answers are provided....that guy can add me to the another CIT believer down. ( but I still want the proof that damns this administration so keep at it truthers!)

Well you need to dig a little deeper, Red.

1) It is not CIT's or anyone's place to give you that answer. That is unreasonable and just because you are incredulous about it doesn't mean that the plane hit. This is about CIT's hard hitting evidence, you can't expect them to have the answer to that, that is for the gov't investigators to figure out. IF you don't understand what the implications of the plane being on the north side, then you need to spend a little more time researching the issue.

2)Roosevelt Roberts saw the plane flying away after the explosion. Not to mention there is more supporting evidence that there was a plane/jet over/flying away from the Pentagon at the time of the "attack". And again, if the plane was on the north side of the Citgo, it cannot hit the light poles, generator trailer/fence, and cause the internal damage leading up to the c-ring hole as outlined by the ASCE. This would only leave the plane flying away.

Your denial is misplaced.

Jthomas you are a hopeless and deceptive propagandist. I have nothing more to discuss with you.

Reheat, we will have to try this again another time. I do have some questions for you, so get your thinking cap on.

reply to post by SPreston


Welcome back Aldo! (or is it Craig?)

You make some rather startling claims. It looks like you did a lot of work... .blah blah blah.


Before we go down this road again, you need to answer one simple question that is not addressed in the "OP" or anywhere on the video.

Where is Flight 77?

This is the part where you say, 'just watch the video man' and I say, 'answer the question' and etc etc

I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

If'n yah aint skeered?

Originally posted by Leo Strauss

I find the eyewitnesses extremely credible and convincing. Especially multiple witnesses independently corroborating each others version of events.

Neither you or I have any clue about what went on behind the scenes to get these people to agree to be recorded. Remember this was a 2-3 second event in their lives 7 years ago during which they were very frightened. For any traumatic event witness statement are notoriously unreliable. They are the WEAKEST form of evidence that exists.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
It is obvious the official NTSB flight path does not match. This is another glaring 9/11 contradiction among many. If only the government would release conclusive video evidence. I won't hold my breath.

Of course, NONE of the physical evidence matches anything except the generally accepted flight path. That's how it was arrived at in the first place. Witness statements are only credible if they support the physical evidence. Otherwise, they are rejected. Well, until some super duper amateur internet sleuths come along with an agenda and try to use witness statements to build a conclusion. It just doesn't work that way. Never has and never will. You can't just hand wave the physical evidence away, it must be rejected on solid scientific grounds. That has not happened at the Pentagon.

What if there is no video other than what has been released? The FBI has said there is no more video that shows anything. Why do you not believe them?

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
I think CIT has presented compelling evidence for a North of Citgo flight path. However in my opinion the flyover theory is speculative at this point.

Well, if there wasn't so much wrong with it, I'd agree. Neither the NoC or the flyover theory is speculative. It's a DEAD DUCK.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
But "North of Citgo" is enough for me to cast the entire official version of events into suspicion. My 2 cents.

Then perhaps you'll just be suspicious for the rest of your life, because it isn't going to go anywhere until Ranke and Waldo grow-up and get a life. Then it will just go away like most conspiracy theories....

Originally posted by emsed1
reply to post by SPreston

 

Where is Flight 77?

I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

If'n yah aint skeered?

It's gone. Far far away into the wild blue yonder. It never came back into Virginia, assuming it actually took off from Dulles. It apparently disappeared somewhere up near Ohio. You will have to ask the 9-11 planners/perpetrators what they did with it after they replaced it with the decoy aircraft which flew over the Navy Annex and North of the Citgo. Maybe Dubya has it hidden in the Oval Office desks along with the Iraqi WMDs.

Here is a picture of the decoy aircraft North of the Citgo and behind the phantom
Flight 77 757 that never was there.

Originally posted by emsed1
reply to post by SPreston

 

Where is Flight 77?

This is the part where you say, 'just watch the video man' and I say, 'answer the question' and etc etc

I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

If'n yah aint skeered?

I ain't skeered. I don't have a paycheck hanging off my answers.

That phantom Flight 77 757 never was here either. It was over on the other side of the Potomac and over DC.