Has Atlantis just been found

It's very clear that the structure is primarily natural - else the steps would be at least a bit level and equal sized etc. It looks - to the trained eye - like natural erosion that may have been slightly modified here and there. But so what? What makes people think that the pre-Jomon peoples of Japan were incapable of such things 10,000 years ago?

If there were people living there at the same time places like Gobekli Tepe were being built why should we not suppose they were capable of a little bit of basic stonework?

Obviously it's not Atlantis since there is no evidence whatsoever that this was a bronze age culture that invaded the Mediterranean, fought a war with the city state of Athens and was defeated

one will 'see' cities & structures as a way of makng sense out of chaos.


but here's a suggestion...
Plato himself tell us where 'Atlantis' is
you can find 'Atlantis' in the allogory story 'the cave' which Plato also wrote.


in the cave story, Plato explains that the shadows [think Atlantis as one such shadow] on the cave wall are reflections of reality/Illusions, aka Maya in sanskrit.
[for a reading of the cave... see;] rivertext.com...


it becomes self explainatory, 'Atlantis' is proof that we chain ourselves to an illusionary reality which we make real. imho, 'Atlantis' was published as a spoof & wakeup call to those in society who can discern the shadows on the cave wall for what they are...and the masses of what we today call Sheeple who buy into 'Atlantis' being real instead of being a shadow cast on the wall

[edit on 6-8-2008 by St Udio]

when i read the posts i couldn't help but think it may have been the lost continent of "Lemuria"/"Mu".

one of the links you provided when recursed to root directory brings you to a page in spanish or italian so using babelfish translated the site and found site map.. a lot of links might be worth havin a look.. i think some of the structures are deffinatly man made..


clik
here for the translated sitemap

there are a lot of links for Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu..

Scientific Information That Suggests Lemuria Once Existed

Can science shed any light on the possible reality of Lemuria? Do we have any evidence that the floor of the Pacific could once have been elevated over a continental-sized area?



Consider the May, 1998, review paper by Marcia McNutt, entitled simply, Superswells. 8

We have heard of hotspots that invoke narrow, isolated upwellings from deep within the Earth, like the hotspot produced by a thermal plume that some geologists think was responsible for the Hawaiian-island chain. Such a hotspot is surrounded by shallow seafloor less than about 1000 km in cross-sectional diameter, called a "swell."



A "superswell" is also believed to reflect mantle upwelling. But it expresses itself as an extensive, anomalously shallow area of the seafloor. And its scale is several thousand kilometers across. This is as large, for example, as the island continent of Australia.

this link to external source..


another link to more of the same..

it would appear graham hancock has also been there..


follow the story here..

peace

daz__




[edit on 6-8-2008 by daz__]

Originally posted by billyjoinedat2k8
The seabed contains what appear to be ruins of a previous glacial age and traces of terrestrial flora, fauna and stalactites that form only on the surface. Their resemblance to structures in the ancient world have led some to theorize they could be the remnants of an ancient civilization. Were they to be human-made they would be among the oldest human made structures at some 10,000 years old.

The fame of Yonaguni island began in the 1980s, when a Japanese marine explorer, Kihachiro Aratake, by chance discovered a set of very singular seemingly architectonic structures. Shortly thereafter, a group of scientists directed by Masaaki Kimura, of the University of the Ryūkyūs, confirmed the existence of the vestiges. They appear, at least superficially, to be comparable to pyramids. Some also speculate that several of the seemingly natural features could in fact be human made, such as the discovery of what some called a "face" on the side of one of the monuments.

Kimura, the only scientist that believes this formation is anything other than completely natural, now thinks it sank beneath the ocean around 2,000 years ago, around the time of the destruction of Pompei:

Submerged stone structures lying just below the waters off Yonaguni Jima are actually the ruins of a Japanese Atlantis—an ancient city sunk by an earthquake about 2,000 years ago.

That's the belief of Masaaki Kimura, a marine geologist at the University of the Ryukyus in Japan who has been diving at the site to measure and map its formations for more than 15 years.

He makes unsubstantiated claims that humans had "worked the site" for at least 3,000 years prior to that date:

Kimura believes the ruins date back to at least 5,000 years, based on the dates of stalactites found inside underwater caves that he says sank with the city.

And structures similar to the ruins sitting on the nearby coast have yielded charcoal dated to 1,600 years ago—a possible indication of ancient human inhabitants, Kimura added.

Source for both quotes.

Originally posted by Essan
It's very clear that the structure is primarily natural - else the steps would be at least a bit level and equal sized etc. It looks - to the trained eye - like natural erosion that may have been slightly modified here and there. But so what? What makes people think that the pre-Jomon peoples of Japan were incapable of such things 10,000 years ago?

"Pre-Jomon?"

Essan, the Jomon date back to at least 14,000 BC.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Anyway...debunkers have to say that these straight-lined step-structures are not artificial because they are too lazy to deal with the upheaval it would cause if they had to re-think and re-write their entire education.

Simple as that.

Weeks ago, Cormac gave you all the exact same source that I just did, and it went largely ignored.

The believers here are apparently too lazy to deal with the upheaval such valid information would cause in their warped worldviews.

Simple as that.

Harte

[edit on 8/6/2008 by Harte]

reply to post by Harte


Kimura only revised his dating after years of massive international pressure to. It wore him out.

The New Inquisition will not allow for something that is obviously artificial to be artificial.

You´re not kidding me though.

Im outta here billyjoinedat2k8...been thru this discussion hundreds of times, its boring. Good Luck.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by merka

Originally posted by billyjoinedat2k8
what do you think could this actually be Atlantis

No I dont think that and neither should you since its already been disproven to even be manmade.

Its amazing how many theories that are plain wrong never seem to die on the internet, wrong stories link to other wrong stories that rely on another wrong story, sigh...

[edit on 5-8-2008 by merka]

Agreed, on this point I have watched a couple documentaries. They have had some of the best geologists out there to confirm that the structures are not man made. I don't remember how they explained the defined structure but they did show more examples in nature of this occuring.

I also believe this has been discussed on this site a couple times. This discovery is VERY old in ATS time.

Howdy Sky

Kimura only revised his dating after years of massive international pressure to. It wore him out.

What pressure? You mean his finding information that corrected his original theory? The lack of anyone agreeing with him - now that might cause some intellectual integrity searching.

What no evidence for the stair case? Your enthusiatic messages will always be met with requests for evidence.

I think we can put Yonaguni into the natural box (although I'm holding out for some modification by humans). Too bad it was initially a promising site.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Harte

 

Kimura only revised his dating after years of massive international pressure to. It wore him out.

The New Inquisition will not allow for something that is obviously artificial to be artificial.

You´re not kidding me though.

Im outta here billyjoinedat2k8...been thru this discussion hundreds of times, its boring. Good Luck.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

This is the sort of posting - by a moderator, no less - that has kept me away from ATS for a month.

So much for wishful thinking.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

This is the sort of posting - by a moderator, no less - that has kept me away from ATS for a month.

So much for wishful thinking.

Harte

You mean when I disagree with your interpretation of these stairs and straight lines, that keeps you away?

Grow a tougher skin

Originally posted by Hanslune

What pressure? You mean his finding information that corrected his original theory? The lack of anyone agreeing with him - now that might cause some intellectual integrity searching.

What no evidence for the stair case? Your enthusiatic messages will always be met with requests for evidence.

I think we can put Yonaguni into the natural box (although I'm holding out for some modification by humans). Too bad it was initially a promising site.

The whole problem is that a tiny pebble of data could cause hurricanes of change among the knowledge and books we´ve built up.

This is the repeating problem we face in our discussions with each other.

Its difficult to accept - lets say, 12 000 year old artificial structurs underwater - without also accepting a bunch of other things we thought were true.

And thats where the pressure comes from: Dont let a tiny pebble destroy our whole structure.

The whole problem is that a tiny pebble of data could cause hurricanes of change among the knowledge and books we´ve built up.

Hans: No it wouldn't it would just be taken into the fold of human knowledge I think you are giving these little pebbles more importance than they deserve. Why are scientists looking for new stuff. I have never come across an Archaeologist who stated he didn't want to find something new. What they greatly feared was NOT finding something new.

This is the repeating problem we face in our discussions with each other.

Hans: Problem? Not really you just make broad sweeping statements usually based on made up limitations you impose on others and never provide evidence. I'm rather use to it. Fringe believers have been using that method for decades in my experience and by research since the dawn of man. I find it amusing and just ask for evidence....

Its difficult to accept - lets say, 12 000 year old artificial structurs underwater - without also accepting a bunch of other things we thought were true.

Hans: Hmmm we accept structures nearly that old elsewhere in the world why would their being underwater cause any difficulty? Again you make a statement in which you state a position you think rational people hold but which everyone who is rational on this board has repeatedly stated they don't. I would LOVE to find a new civilization, so would 99.99% of scientists-there is no resistance to this concept. However they want evidence of these civilizations not belief. I'm sure if you ask Harte, Essan, Cormac and Byrd the reply will be the same, "we'd love to find such a civilization but we want evidence for same".

And thats where the pressure comes from: Dont let a tiny pebble destroy our whole structure.

Hans: What structure? There is no monolithic structure of knowledge, no palace of "this is what we know and we ain't moving". Its all a construction of yours to explain why there is no evidence. Please note the vast changes in knowledge in the last 150 years. If there is a restricting "structure" its doing a suckie job. Now I'm sure if we looked around we find a denialist scientist somewhere, there are a minority of strange scientists - they are human too.

This belief vs evidence debate has been going on for a LONG time.

Regards

Hans

i find this intresting and plausable,i dont give 2 cents for what "scientist" think it is or is not.Scientist are guessers,thats what they do they guess from the available knowlege.there are many towns underwater now,that have little trace they where ever there.for instance anyone ever heard of Lyonesse?its now under the water past St. michael's mount,scilly island are all that remains.
Time has great effects on the way things look,you could fly ove south america and pass hundred's of ancient towns and citys that u would never see becuse of the plant life assimilating everything around it.What would become of the world we know if say the mantle shifted?Would all our buildings be turned up and tilled under the soil?
on a side note why the hell are the rocks in death valley moveing>? they move in a path,u can even see there trail they left,thats just cool,and thought provoking.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Anyway...debunkers have to say that these straight-lined step-structures are not artificial because they are too lazy to deal with the upheaval it would cause if they had to re-think and re-write their entire education.

I'm perfectly willing to re-think everything I ever knew about history and life and civilizations and aliens and whatever else you got. But come on. Give me a little proof! Not just, "Well, it looks like a carved structure, so that's what it has to be!" Because, after all, anything that looks like something else simply has to be that something else.

Sure, it's fun to imagine all kinds of science fiction and fantasy scenarios and feel like you know something more than those snobby experts who think they know everything just because they went to school for 20 years and know the hard science of the subject. I mean, who do they think they are, anyway?

Oh, that's right. They're experts. So I'm more than willing to change my mind about what they say, just as soon as a lot of other equally knowledgeable experts prove them wrong. So... go ahead. Whadda ya got, other than the "it looks like it" argument?

Experts. Lots of those, some good some bad. Not so much experts but evidence.

I remember one advisor telling me, if you go into that field [ insert favorite Archaeological area] you'll need to read for twenty-five years, eight hours a day to get a feel for the culture, what is known and what is not known.

Experts have specific knowledge but occassionally an amateur can out do them. Most scientific work now is no tindividual but a team effort due to the need for diverse specializations-that no one person can be "expert" at.

What it could be is or was a rock quary where they chipped rocks from to make something farther away. So maybe it is a historical site just not anything bizarre. Although I watched it on History Channel and the Japanese seem to think that it is city of some sorts. Who knows what in our oceans and what hasnt been found. It is still very interesting.

reply to post by isa75


Good thought Isa but the entire island is covered with that type of formation. The Okinawans used said rock in constructing for hundreds of years.

The first presence of people in Okinawa that we knonw about is around 30,000 BC with the development of the "shellmound" [midden] culture around 8000 BC. Of the seven known paleolithic sites all show typical hunter-gather technology with some reliance on shellfish and martime resources.

reply to post by Harte


May I suggest Harte that you take up some believing exercises. I would recommend you read a book by Velikoysky and force yourself to believe everything he wrote. Remember no fair doubting anything or looking it up - just believe. No matter what he says just believe it. After that work your way up the fringe author trail until you get to Icke - if you can believe what he says - you will have converted yourself. Good luck!

More seriously I've been reading up on Okinawan pre-history, an interesting mix of finds, middens, few if any stone tools and a long gap from 18,000 to 7,000 BC. Pottery showed up a few thousand years ago. No signs of an organized settled culture.

I'm pretty sure people know the facts behind Atlantis, because I've seen in a lot pop culture like movies, Anime and other stuff showing the real story about Atlantis...

Basically what I've seen is that people from somewhere on the American side came to Japan, Egypt and around the European area after a flood scenario happened.

Christianity is based on the Atlantean books and is used in a way for power then what they were really for.

I think Japanese people know this because they tell this story through their pop culture.

They probably learned a big part of it from the Ainu people.

It's in American pop culture too though.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Shawn B.]

[edit on 8-8-2008 by Shawn B.]

Howdy Shawn B

I'm pretty sure people know the facts behind Atlantis, because I've seen in a lot pop culture like movies, Anime and other stuff the real story about Atlantis...

Hans: Its a popular theme but being popular doesn't mean add to the chances of it being real. Lord of the rings and harry Potter are popular but we know they are made up.

Basically what I've seen is that people from somewhere on the American side came to Japan, Egypt and around the European area after a flood scenario happened.

Hans: Why do you think that?

Christianity is based on the Atlantean books and is used in a way for power then what they were really for.

Hans: I haven't heard that one before. Is that your own idea or is it from a printed source?

I think Japanese people know this because they tell this story through their pop culture. They probably learned a big part of it from the Ainu people.

Hans: Genetic testing of the Ainu show they are related to people in Tibet and the Andaman islands. Physically and culturally they seem to be a joining of the Okhotsk and Satsumon cultures. Probably due to pressure from the Wajin. Some hold that they were the people who developed the Jomon culture. Ainu legends say they were in Japan for a hundred thousand years before the people of the sun showed up (Japanese).

Originally posted by Hanslune


Hans: Its a popular theme but being popular doesn't mean add to the chances of it being real. Lord of the rings and harry Potter are popular but we know they are made up.

Harry Potter is real to extent, there are witches, can they do what witches do in harry potter....that's another story.

Hans: Why do you think that?

via synchronicity, a form data analysis/mining and other ways.

the flood may not be actual water, but ideas.

Hans: I haven't heard that one before. Is that your own idea or is it from a printed source?

i don't take credit for it and i don't think you can find it in a printed source...maybe you can i don't know.

Hans: Genetic testing of the Ainu show they are related to people in Tibet and the Andaman islands. Physically and culturally they seem to be a joining of the Okhotsk and Satsumon cultures. Probably due to pressure from the Wajin. Some hold that they were the people who developed the Jomon culture. Ainu legends say they were in Japan for a hundred thousand years before the people of the sun showed up (Japanese).

yeah, i know that.



[edit on 8-8-2008 by Shawn B.]