Holy crap this has to be one of the best poems I've ever read!

It's apparently by Red Skelton, whom also happens to be a Freemason it turns out...which is where I found this poem.

But it is quite awesome I think you'll all enjoy it, and it'll probably open your eyes a tad bit more, it is called.

That Ragged Old Flag

Sincerely,
no signature

PS...the bold text is a link

Red Skelton was a man of many talents. Such a great poem and I never read it before today. (Thanks for pointing it out. I don't think we'll ever see another man like Red Skelton.

Yeah his death hit the country quite hard it seems, I didn't really know all that he did, I knew he had some comedy skits as a bum and that was about it. I'm glad for this poem.

I especially savor the part where he says "In our good land here she's abused." Ironically it is true, through all she's been through here is where she's abused the most

Patriotism is a beautiful thing when it is of a Nation that is Just and Honorable, sadly so few care now-a-days and that ugliness shows.

Sincerely,
no signature

holy sh1t if thats one of the best poems you've ever read you really need to read more poetry, its bloody awfull sentemental pap, kinda thing you'd end up shoving in some horrible greetings card.

rhythm is bloody awfull, its full of forced rhymes.

urgh.

If you really have a desperate desire to read some patriotic crap go check out the war poets, they're not exactly what one might call high literature but they're a hell of a lot more worthwhile than this.

Indeed...

The "poem" is pedestrian pabulum. Anything, even a grocery list, from Robert Frost is much better.

Leave it to the europeans who never have anything nice to say about America. Although I doubt Lupe or WS could write as well.


Good read FM

[Edited on 01/6/03 by nyeff]

well I was at the county media awards yesterday night nominated in the best new writer catagory and I do edit a poetry magazine, so yeah, I think I have the right to

a) say thats a # poem and
b) contend that I could indeed write better.

(for the record if your reading Q.O. both dave the golem and Papanuwenwe were nominated, and!!!! James got a best artist nom. that was a bit of a surprise...we also stole more balloons than the other tables, Oh and Jim Marshal won a life time achievement award, yes him of the amplifier fame, he was massively drunk )

Well the proof is in the reading,I don't consider insults and wisecracks great reading.

Do you have a link or something so we can read your stuff?

....now the depth of you literary ignorance comes to light too !?!?!
Please don't post the pictures of your naked arse which I know must be the next thing you'll show in public!
I loved Red Skelton as a wee wee child on TV; being a boy and seeing your Dad crack up over something is priceless.
(BTW....Winston, can I use that Frost shopping list thingy? It's classic! )

The Best poem Re: America I've ever read is one of my persona lfavorites, by Langston Hughs

"Let America be
America again"


Let America be America again.
Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.

(America never was America to me.)

Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed ��
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above.

(It never was America to me.)

O, let my land be a land where Liberty
Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
But opportunity is real, and life is free,
Equality is in the air we breathe.

(There's never been equality for me,
Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek ��
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
Tangled in that ancient endless chain
Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
Of work the men! Of take the pay!
Of owning everything for one's own greed!

I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
I am the worker sold to the machine.
I am the Negro, servant to you all.
I am the people, humble, hungry, mean ��
Hungry yet today despite the dream.
Beaten yet today �� O, Pioneers!
I am the man who never got ahead,
The poorest worker bartered through the years.

Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream
In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
That even yet its mighty daring sings
In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
That's made America the land it has become.
O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas
In search of what I meant to be my home ��
For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,
And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,
And torn from Black Africa's strand I came
To build a "homeland of the free."

The free?

Who said the free? Not me?
Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
The millions shot down when we strike?
The millions who have nothing for our pay?
For all the dreams we've dreamed
And all the songs we've sung
And all the hopes we've held
And all the flags we've hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay ��
Except the dream that's almost dead today.

O, let America be America again ��
The land that never has been yet ��
And yet must be �� the land where every man is free.
The land that's mine �� the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME ��
Who made America,
Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
Must bring back our mighty dream again.

Sure, call me any ugly name you choose ��
The steel of freedom does not stain.
From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,
We must take back our land again,
America!

O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath ��
America will be!

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain ��
All, all the stretch of these great green states ��
And make America again!

Not really, theres a web edition of monkeykettle our mag, but theres no poetry, you have to buy the actual mag for that.

www.monkeykettle.co.uk...

I could put some of my work up here but frankly theres little point, Poetry is massively subjective, one can dislike a very good poem, and like a naff one.

Winstons contention is a prime example, Robert frost is an undoubtably good poet who I simply don't enjoy reading (with the exception of the excellent "some say the world will end in fire"

I'm a good writer, I know this because people buy my stuff, it wins the odd award, people tell me they enjoy it, and as such I feel perfectly happy in that contention, I don't really need the validation of a bunch of conspiracy theorists many of whome will slam my stuff not because its bad but because their opinion of my politics would generate a basic dislike of anything I produce, especially somthing as apparently personal as poetry.

more to the point, whilst my poetry is pretty good I'm actually a playwrite, I don't think ATS would be happy with me shoving ninety pages of script on their board but if you want a copy I'll be happy to email my latest to you, or anyone who fancys a gander.

see now thats a well crafted poem. One can admire a thing without actually liking it.

Originally posted by Lupe_101
see now thats a well crafted poem. One can admire a thing without actually liking it.

Your perspective or Hughs's in the poem?

I always enjoy the multi-faceted approach to the arts: the taste/sound/smell/sight/texture of a fine meal; you can hear the jazz of that poem as well as the palpable shock of reality being polar to the ideal.

Hughs poem,
if you compare it to skelentons you can see instantly that its of superior quality, its well structured, it tricks the writer wilth little half rhymes and double rhymes, it creates rhythems apropriate to the issues its dealing with.

I don't enjoy somthing as broad as political commentary as a subject for poetry, my preference is abstract analysis of social situations so, whilst I can't say I liked or enjoyed Hughs poem, I can still say its a good well crafted poem.

Well BT's poem is well written,but sounds like a bunch of whining too me.Poor me ,poor me.Its like he never strived for the "American Dream",just expected it to be handed too him.


I've got to admit that you have me curious about your work Lupe. I'll send you my e-mail to you,by U2U.

no problem.

Originally posted by nyeff
Leave it to the europeans who never have anything nice to say about America. Although I doubt Lupe or WS could write as well.

Good read FM

Nyeff, all the europeans are not the same ! Some of us are more than pro-US. They are allways ready to stand up for the USA and if their country were in war with the US, they would fight WITH the US and NOT against them.

In their country, peoples are often looking at them like traitors. But they don't care and are not afraid to use their fists when they have to do it !!!

The next time, think twice before posting. Thanks.

And yes, it was a good read.

P.S : I don't agree allways with the US and their policies, but I know that without them, our world would be a kind of giant dictatorship.

Sorry UP.I don't always think of you as european.

I will be more careful.

Mason

Rereading my post, it came off wrong. I meant that it's not a poem, just a sentiment....one that I happen to pretty much agree with. The enjoying of it or anything is subjective, and if it floats your boat & satiates your tastes, it's not for me to question.

Originally posted by nyeff
Sorry UP.

I don't always think of you as european.

I will be more careful.

I wasn't upset, because I know that you right. Many europeans ( 60% up to 70% ) don't like the USA.

Fortunately, in most of the cases, they are all cowards ( even those crazy skinheads who are strong only when they are 10 VS 1 ).

It's a pity to see how the EU citizens are all against the USA. But the main fault is comming from our gov's and medias. The majority " think " like their tv set ! If their TV set is pro " something" , they'll be pro " something ", and vice versa.

I was just sad to see how the USA think about the EU. But unfortunately, you have all right.

thats simply not true.

Most Brits love america, they like americans, and they enjoy aspects of american culture, food, hollywood etc

what most of them don't get however is the US's seeming inability to self depricate, as this is the source of much of british humour and culture, the US tend to come off as crass brash and a little dumb.

Bush is pretty much hated, and we don't support your war with Iraq or indeed the way your fighting your war on terror, but with the exception of US foreign policy, the current administration and a few of your more conservative aspects, christianity, death penalty, gun law, the US is regarded as a fairly pleasant place, we certainly like you more than the germans french or Italians.