A Solution to Saving the Planet

The humans are a disease to this earth. We pollute, burn, blow up, and do all kinds of other things to this earth. This planet will not last much longer unless we do something about it. This is something that everyone has to do other wise it won't make a difference. There are steps we need to take to make this planet a better place for our kids and grandkids to grow up into. There is no specific order to these steps. I am just listing off the top of my head here.

1) Get rid of anything that runs on OIL based products: Cars, Machines, Planes, Ect... And revert to solar, and hydrogen powered stuff.

2) Change from electricity to SOLAR, WINDMILL POWER(Cleaner and More Efficient): Houses, Businesses, Power plants, Citys, The world.

3) Destroy and ban all PLASTIC and NON-BIODEGRADABLE materials (except for surgical things which after death should be removed, cleaned, repaired, and put back into use)

These are just a few things we could do to make the Earth a better place. Please feel free to comment or add your own ideas.

reply to post by encinoman


Notwithstanding the potential legitimacy to some of the ends you suggest, why do humans have to be a disease?

That position has always driven me nuts.

In point of fact, humans are apparently no more different than any other species on the planet, who given the opportunity, will proceed beyond sustainability.

We are proving the RULE, not the exception.

If you're gonna rail against humans, rail against the fact that all that intelligence is apparently not as useful as we'd like to think.


[edit on 2-8-2008 by loam]

reply to post by loam


The human race is a disease because we want and want and want with no regards for the consequences of our actions. Look how much the pollution level has raised in the past 500 years. Also America is the only country that has gas guzzling vehicles. Japan uses power efficient hybrids. Also think back to world war 2 we used nuclear bombs on Japan without even thinking about what it would do to the land. The people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima are still feeling the effects of what happened then.

The first electric car came out the same time as the model T did but we went with the Gas one. Also if you have been watching the news the weather patters are irregular and the weather is getting worse. This is due to the endless pollution from factories, cars and all the other oil based products which put more CO2 into the atmosphere. If you thing about it the earth has gone into a gradual decline that is starting to steepen since the Industrial Revolution.

reply to post by encinoman


None of your comments make humans a disease. In fact, they rather prove my points above.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by loam]

The fact is that humans have the technology to make things better but they don't. Most could care a less about what happens to the earth after they die. What I'm trying to say is if not for the human race then the earth would not be heading for disaster. Don't get me wrong I'm not against humans here I'm just saying that they "us" will be the end of this planet therefore the end of the human race and all other races on this planet.

Originally posted by encinoman
1) Get rid of anything that runs on OIL based products: Cars, Machines, Planes, Ect... And revert to solar, and hydrogen powered stuff. .

This planet has come to be as it is for a large part because of the sun's energy. What do you think will happen if all people start converting that energy into electricity and use it for their own needs? If that much energy is taken out of the natural cycle and used for things that were not created to sustain that cycle but to sustain an individual sooner or later we will have a dead planet.

So even your solution will not save the planet, only by escaping into space and extracting energy from different planets/dumping pollution on them as well -or- live as animals. Either way, this planet is created as a waste product, sooner or later ending up in the sun again (in other words we are not a disease to it).

[edit on 2-8-2008 by Dragonfly79]

I think there's plenty of sun to go around, just not efficient enough alternative energy technology to replace current fossile fuel needs. I have two PV panels, one solar collector. They were pricey, and will eventually pay for themselves. The research I've done indicates that, at least for our experience down here on this island, solar/wind power helps, but is still too costly to make a complete off-grid switchover. Believe me, if I had the money, I would do it in a heartbeat. I think most people are in the same boat. We add things as we can afford to do so, and afford to build protection systems for those PV panels (high hurricane probability here). Our power costs are directly related to the fuel factor, which is directly related to the cost of fuel and our power costs are high. R&D will eventually excell, I think, and be able to provide affordable and efficient solar systems, and then we'll all be on board. Hopefully the breakthroughs happen soon.

Originally posted by encinoman

2) Change from electricity to SOLAR, WINDMILL POWER(Cleaner and More Efficient): Houses, Businesses, Power plants, Citys, The world.

i've said before, we should change from the AC electric grid to localized DC power.
there is even technology for the walls to have an ambient glow which will do away with tube lights etc... except for places like operating rooms dentist chairs and mines & such.

that "live science. com" site cites a technology that uses a aluminum foil
equivelent that was 'perforrated' by a chemical that could replace the billions of flourescent tubes that have small ammounts of mercury in them from contaminating the nations/worlds landfills.


with local or neighborhood power generators, using bio material to convert into syngas...a system of garbage & trash consuming electric generators could provide localized DC lighting and DC power to a neighborhood of homes/apts that have individual banks of storage cells. plus charge ones electric car when at home or at public recharging stations within the neighborhood (for visitors)


just one of the changes in the present wasteful & costly system

Oh, great. Another 'let's save the planet by destroying all humanity' thread. I'm not giving up on denying this ignorance, folks. Get your facts straight and be ready.

The humans are a disease to this earth.

You do realize you are human?

This planet will not last much longer unless we do something about it.

Amazing it lasted how many billions of years before we even showed up. Thank God you got this message out in the nick of time.

This is something that everyone has to do other wise it won't make a difference. There are steps we need to take to make this planet a better place for our kids and grandkids to grow up into.

You may find this hard to believe, but I was somebody's kid, and I was somebody's grandkid. I grew up in a world that was turning just fine.

Get rid of anything that runs on OIL based products: Cars, Machines, Planes, Ect... And revert to solar, and hydrogen powered stuff.

OK, let's say for one moment we do that. No more cars, no more trucks, no more trains, no more factories... that means no more food from the stores, because there will be no way to get it there, much less to your house. No more computers, as they come on trucks as well and are primarily made of plastic. You can forget metals as well as plastic, since they require smelting, which in turn uses energy. So there goes your refrigerator, stove, freezer, microwave. In order to survive, you'll either eat food raw or cook over a campfire. Phones, TV, movies, will all be a thing of the past.

Revert to solar? Hydrogen? Go ahead. But let's go along with your idea and do it in the dark. That will make technology advance much farther and faster.

Change from electricity to SOLAR, WINDMILL POWER(Cleaner and More Efficient): Houses, Businesses, Power plants, Citys, The world.

Ummm, cities? I thought we just got rid of oil. There would be no more cities. No more houses, unless you want to start cutting down trees with a handsaw to build a rough log cabin. Chainsaws use gasoline.

From electricity to solar and windmill. Hmmm, are you aware that solar cell arrays and windmill farms make electricity? That's the whole purpose of putting them up.

Destroy and ban all PLASTIC and NON-BIODEGRADABLE materials (except for surgical things which after death should be removed, cleaned, repaired, and put back into use)

Oh, joy. No more computer, no more TV, no more plastic utensils. You get to wash the metal utensils after each meal, in a metal tub, with no soap (they use energy to make it, you know). Oh, and no more showers, as that showerhead, the water pipes, and the water filtration system uses plastics.
I already mentioned no more computers. Phones of course would be history. Even if you made the computers and phones out of something else, the phone lines are made of plastic (fiberoptics!). Oh, I did just think of something that isn't made of plastic (usually) and uses no oil to operate: guns! We could always go to war...

These are just a few things we could do to make the Earth a better place. Please feel free to comment or add your own ideas.

Here's an idea: before you decide what I am going to give up, step up to the plate and try it first. Show me the way. Be a leader!

TheRedneck
P.S.: I realize you're new here, but remember the motto of ATS. Deny ignorance.

What do you mean by saving the "planet"? It is a huge (well ,relatively to me at least) mass of different minerals, chemical compounds and other stuff.Big oval "pile" of star dust. It happens to be our home, i personally like it very much and do not like what we do to ... ourself. And other life forms. Not the planet. it does not care/feel a thing. Even if we nuke it into oblivion and it will crumble and break up - it still would not feel/care. No more then a rock.
I can understand someone wanting to save his natural habitat from destruction - but it is saving ourself, not rocks. Only once we understand that we are just making huge problems for us/our children then things will start moving. Pollution kills people. It does not kill planet. It kills ecosystem, that we are part of and so will kill us this indirect way too.
As for your suggestions - they have one slight problem. It is not practical since it will not happen. Solution to our self-made problems has to be in small but sure steps in one pre-planned direction. And hey, take it easy on us humans (i presume you also one of those illness generators too ) - we are just infants compared to evolution time line, not to mention compared to universe age. No "adults" to prevent us from braking our toys, so we just have to learn the hard way.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


The sun has plenty of energy to go around and even if everyone does change to solar power there will still be enough energy to sustain the plant. More than enough. The planet and all the humans on it don't even use a fraction of the energy the sun puts out.

You will find that the Americans don't care and the reason they don't care is that they are still stuck in the coal burning age
their resources are dried up like a raisin in the California sun
and every invention ever dreamed up that would free man from oil has been archived in the CIA vaults under TOP SECRET do not open.
couple that with a population that is easily manipulated by bozos and an armed forces bent on a NWO which has the reflection in the mirror of own.
the factors you claim in the op are only true of inhumanity .





[edit on 2-8-2008 by solo1]

those are all obvious soultions. the problem is, its easier said than done.

furthermore, you have presented no original, plausible or viable options to "fixing" the planet.

and as for your comments on the model-t vs the electric car, and how "we wanted" the former, some would argue combustion engines have been marketed indirectly by the oil companies for their own profit, while electric engine technology has been supressed; a true conspiracy.

[edit on 8/2/2008 by prototism]

reply to post by TheRedneck


Yes the Earth has done just fine for the past billion years but humans have not had much of an impact on it until the past 500 years. In those 500 years pollution has raised 100 fold. This is the fault of stupid, ignorant humans. Now not everyone is this way.

The world is not just fine. Maybe in your time it was but now were going into decline. I personally think that at the rate were going we as a human race have maybe 100 more years until everything crashes. World wide depression. But that is for a different topic.

We can run cars without oil. Theres solar powered cars, hydrogen powered cars as I've previously stated, and also cars that run on water. If we can run cars on these things than I'm more than sure they can figure out how to run trains and planes on these things too. We have the technology to do these thing but not the brains. The people are too ignorant and they think that what they do will not have an impact on the earth.

Yes solar and windmill energy still makes electricity but its cleaner and more efficient as I've also previously stated.

And to the plastic thing honestly would it be such a bad thing if we did away with T.V. look how the kids are turning out. Lazy, they don't want to do anything, don't want to work, Disrespectful. I should know Because I'm only 15. And maybe getting rid of all plastic would not be such a good idea but 90% of landfills are non-biodegradable's which are loaded with chemicals which seep into the water table and pollute our water supply. which we are coming up short for . At the rate were going and if we do nothing about it we will run out of drinkable water in approximately 50. But thats only if we do nothing about it. To do away with all plastics other than electronics would do wonders. Stop using plastic bags and use paper instead or boxes. Or actually recycle.

As I've said I'm only 15 and I don't need video games or the computer or the telephone. All this stuff is just luxury. Alls I need is food, water, cloths,shelter and I would be just happy. Think of all the people who are not lucky enough to have food or shelter. There are people who have it a lot harder that all of us. And if your reading this than that means they have it worse than you too.

Now by saying the human race is a disease to this planet. I mean we are a curable disease. We can fix the planet, we can heal the planet. We can be the roots that feed this planet and make it grow and flourish. But this can only happen if everyone helps. No matter how much I try I could never do it by myself no matter how much I wanted to. Its just impossible. I would love to be the leader here but there can never be just one.

reply to post by solo1


And thats the problem is that the government is so corrupt that they can only see beyond their own wealth. They could care a less what happens 100 years from now. But the people could change that and overthrow the government. And the reason to do that would be because of the corruption. But people are too ignorant. Thats the biggest problem of all is the American Ignorance.

reply to post by prototism


The government gets too much money from oil and we get screwed with the gas prices. The government is too powerful, greedy, and corrupt. All politicians are corrupt. And honestly the fault lays with the American people.

Originally posted by encinoman
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

The sun has plenty of energy to go around and even if everyone does change to solar power there will still be enough energy to create and sustain the plant. More than enough. The planet and all the humans on it don't even use a fraction of the energy the sun puts out.

That was not the point I was making... the sun obviously has a lot of energy (for billions and billions of years) but only a small portion of that energy lands on Earth. But that small portion has been used for billions of years by this planet to be able to sustain life. Think of the planet as a machine with lots of smaller devices that need energy, in this case energy coming from the sun.

Basically, solar energy is thrown out of the sun and some of it towards Earth, then that small portion is absorbed by the planet (some of it actually bounces off against the globe and is 'lost' in space), for example a tree standing in the sun all day will absorb the sun's energy and use that power to grow leaves and produce oxygen, all kinds of things. The leaves fall off after awhile, getting absorbed by the soil, which provides nutrients again for other life to emerge.

Now cut down that same tree and replace it with a solar power panel, give it to a human and they will watch tv, use a computer, turn on the light.. the tv uses solar power all day generating images, something that does not do anything for the ecosystem like producing leaves to be recycled and reused lateron. That energy being used (converted) into movies, music, all that stuff just goes into your individual mind and ends there, serving little purpose to the larger ecosystem, it isn't shared with the ecosystem anymore. Now suppose if we all use solar power, think a few billion tv's (and a lot of other power consuming electrical appliances) using a lot of solar power that would have been used by the existing ecosystem otherwise to sustain itself.

The sun's energy might look infinite, but it's not and the total amount of energy coming from the sun is also finite and is to be distributed among all those things that depend on it on this planet. It isn't like if we place solar panels, suddenly we draw more energy from the sun, rather the same amount is received from the sun each day it is just put elsewhere (in your TFT instead of some plant). At least with fossil fuels, that stuff just put extra 'energy' in the ecosystem, the energy contained in it did not have any real function, it was not used by the ecosystem's energy cycle. But if you take out energy by converting all that solar power (and wind/water) into electricity, that energy can't be used by the ecosystem.

Also the ground is heated each day by simply absorbing the sun's rays (creating amongst a lot of things, wind), that will be less also because a lot of the sun's rays don't get absorbed but 'intercepted' by solar panels before it gets into the ecosystem.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by Dragonfly79]

reply to post by encinoman

Yes the Earth has done just fine for the past billion years but humans have not had much of an impact on it until the past 500 years. In those 500 years pollution has raised 100 fold. This is the fault of stupid, ignorant humans. Now not everyone is this way.

Are you saying that having children is stupid and greedy?

The world is not just fine. Maybe in your time it was but now were going into decline. I personally think that at the rate were going we as a human race have maybe 100 more years until everything crashes. World wide depression. But that is for a different topic.

First, I am looking at my mountain right now. There are just as many trees as there were 100 years ago. they are not dying. There are more deer, and at least as many squiirels, rabbits, foxes, coyotes, bears, bobcats, possums.... the list goes on and on. The air is just as clean as it was then. Nothing is dying (except the natural death/rebirth cycle), nothing is wilting, nothing is showing signs of stress even. Now if you live in an urban or even suburban area, I imagine you have some serious decline in the amount of flora and fauna. But isn't that the responsibility of thise who live there? If this is the case, why are you condemning everyone for the actions of a few (that few including you)?

Secondly, what does the coming depression (which I am sure is coming too) have to do with the ecology? These are two completely separate issues.

We can run cars without oil. Theres solar powered cars, hydrogen powered cars as I've previously stated, and also cars that run on water. If we can run cars on these things than I'm more than sure they can figure out how to run trains and planes on these things too. We have the technology to do these thing but not the brains. The people are too ignorant and they think that what they do will not have an impact on the earth.

I never said we did not have an impact. I said we do not have as huge an impact on the planet as a whole as you appear to believe. The cities are like little waste dumps scattered across the countryside. Toxic themselves, but outside of them everything is doing just fine. I drive a truck for a living; I have seen the whole country. Have you?

As to electric/solar/water cars... if they were so easily developed, why are they not on the streets? Sure, we can make electric cars, I think Honda just introduced one. But the range is low, and I don't know many gas stations which sell electrical recharges. Plus the recharge time is probably pretty long still. Water? I know of no proven technology that will do that. It is still rumors and fairy tales. If it becomes more, I will welcome it. Until then, I suggest you learn the difference between science fiction and science fact.

And to the plastic thing honestly would it be such a bad thing if we did away with T.V. look how the kids are turning out. Lazy, they don't want to do anything, don't want to work, Disrespectful. I should know Because I'm only 15.

That means you have the chance to do something about these issues. You have a whole lifetime in front of you. If you are this passionate about stopping oil usage, then develop a water-based (hydrogen) car. I guarantee you'll be wealthy beyond your imagination and be able to help the planet out t the same time. One word of advice, though: learn what you are talking about first. You have some serious scientific inaccuracies in this thread, which I am trying to ignore in favor of what you apparently meant. Physics doesn't work like you want it to, it works like it works. It is up to you to use it correctly.

And maybe getting rid of all plastic would not be such a good idea but 90% of landfills are non-biodegradable's which are loaded with chemicals which seep into the water table and pollute our water supply. which we are coming up short for . At the rate were going and if we do nothing about it we will run out of drinkable water in approximately 50. But thats only if we do nothing about it. To do away with all plastics other than electronics would do wonders. Stop using plastic bags and use paper instead or boxes. Or actually recycle.

There are already biodegradable plastics which degrade quickly under sunlight exposure. The amount of water on the planet has not changed since it formed. Chemicals can be filtered out.

And we started off with medical plastics being OK, now we have already added electronics. What do we add next? Cars parts? They save fuel and improve efficiency by making the car lighter. Airplanes? they use a lot of plastic and composites to make them lighter too. You ever think that without TV/radio/Internet we would not even know about the Kyotot treaty? Or the Iraqi War? So do we allow them for certain purposes and disallow them for others? Isn;'t that totalitarianism at its finest? Think these things through before you go jumping headfirst into that swamp.

Now by saying the human race is a disease to this planet. I mean we are a curable disease. We can fix the planet, we can heal the planet. We can be the roots that feed this planet and make it grow and flourish. But this can only happen if everyone helps. No matter how much I try I could never do it by myself no matter how much I wanted to. Its just impossible. I would love to be the leader here but there can never be just one.

You're right; no one can make such a huge change alone. But one thing you apparently don't understand about leadership: it is not forcing others to do your will, it is more about convincing others to help you. You can never be a leader if you are trying to force others to do as you wish. People just don't like being told what to do. At age 15, I would think you would know that.

My advice to you: quit trying to change the whole world and change your part. Leadership is also not barking orders. It is also doing what needs doing whether or not there are followers. Show me how sincere you are in your desire. Start doing what you are preaching to others about. develop an alternate energy. Clean up your street. Refuse to make trips to town. Then come talk to me about how it is doable. You'll make a lot more sense.

TheRedneck

The planet will be just fine. Our planet has survived disasters and changes far worse than anything we can come up with, and will probably do so again. Ice ages, asteroid strikes, supervolocano eruptions, seismic activity (earthquakes) sufficient to change the face of the world and move landmasses, they've all happened before and will probably happen again. We've just been very lucky that in the few years (on a geological scale) that we've been around, nothing really cataclysmic has happened. The next BIG thing that happens will put all of our concerns about pollution, global warming, and habitat destruction into perspective - they are relatively small problems.

Life on this planet will probably also survive. It may change, as it has before, but it will probably survive and evolve into new directions. The dinosaurs were wiped out and we came along. We may be wiped out in the future and something else will come along, but as I said before, the planet will be fine.

I think that your concerns are not about the planet, they are about human civilization, if you are honest. You see that we may run out of fossil fuels, food, clean water, and other resources, and that these shortages will endanger human civilization. You may be right, but let's be honest about what the real concern is. It's not concern for the PLANET, it's concern for US.

----------

I have a 1600 square ft. house. It has a roof. All of the sunlight that falls on this roof does not nurture any plants. It is absorbed into the roof tiles as heat. If I cover my entire roof with solar panels, I will not be taking one sunbeam away from any plant; I will merely be using the energy that was formerly wasted. People don't generally put up new structures to put solar panels on; they attach solar panels to existing structures. And we have LOTS of structures. I think we can, with just a little common sense, use solar energy without "starving" all the trees and plants.

------

Actually, solar and wind energy are very inefficient right now, and that's the problem. I want to switch to wind and solar, I want to get "off the grid." But because solar panels and windmills produce so much less energy than the burning of fossil fuels, I would either have to spend tons of money I don't have to get lots and lots of solar panels and several windmills, or spend tons of money I don't have to buy all new appliances that are specifically designed to use much less electricity. What we need to do, in my opinion, is focus on making our ordinary appliances much more energy efficient (and still affordable) and on improving the technology for solar and wind energy so that smaller (and cheaper) installations will produce more electricity. When that happens, you will see lots of people switching! As soon as the point is reached at which it is to the average person's economic benefit to switch, they will, and you won't need to convince everyone to "save the planet."

The same is true of electric, hybrid, and alternative fuel vehicles. No one wants to buy $4 a gallon gas, but they can't afford to do anything else. As soon as there are cars that run on electricity or water or biofuels that are competitively priced with gas-burning cars, people will start buying them.

If you want to save the world and change the world, study hard in school, go to college, and become a scientist or engineer who can work to bring about these changes. Getting people to do things that are against their own self-interest is very, very hard. Improving the technology so that people do the things you want them to because it is in their own best interests, that will be easier in the long run.

Originally posted by encinoman
The humans are a disease to this earth.

I agree with what you stated in the original post except the above. I think that this kind of thinking is dangerous.

Solar = YES!
Wind = YES!
Hydro = YES!

I also think we should be finding ways to harness lightning.