Underground Base Project...

I think the desire to "cave-up", or bunker-down is heavy in humans for a reason.

Is it any coincidence that the oldest drawings for christianity are in caves? We have lived in caves for civilizations prior.

The History channel "Underground Cities" I think it was called, was an amazing show.

I also think the shipping container idea can be done safely. Of course you would put pilings and reinforcing pillars all over the place.

Like anything in life, it needs to be done correctly. But, thank you for the lack of faith of people to construct and adapt.

Originally posted by ThreeDeuce
Like anything in life, it needs to be done correctly. But, thank you for the lack of faith of people to construct and adapt.

I am not saying that it can not happen. I am saying that nobody is thinking of the really important questions, let alone the answers.

Figuring a way to stack or place them, in order to create enough living space is fine and good. Figuring out how to account for the many variances affecting the structure and the safety of all involved is much different.

My lack of faith is not in people's ability to create and adapt. My lack of faith stems from those who encourage the idea without actually taking reality into acount.

Why encourage someone to put their life in considerable and real danger without first adressing (or even acknowledgeing) the scope of such a multi-faceted project?

Originally posted by ThreeDeuce
I also think the shipping container idea can be done safely. Of course you would put pilings and reinforcing pillars all over the place.

This is the type of mindset I was talking about. Of course you would put pilings and pillars...now what about material?

What about where and how to place?

Pillars into a base foundation, or just internally reenforcing the container itself?

If a foundation, from what?

How would you connect to the foundation, would you?

Is the area chosen truly desirable for such a project (above and below ground)?

etc, etc, etc...

There are so many mortality affecting facets with each piece of face value advise. Please do not give or take advise lightly.

To start, I would fill concrete pilings at least 4 or 5 feet down at all of the four corners of all of the containers at ground level. That would be 8 pilings on the bottom.

I would probably use wood, i.e. 2 by 4s or even better the semi round landscaping woods 4 in each container near the middle to support the middle. Actually I might put concrete under the ground beneath where these supporting pillars would be also.

Already, these shipping containers are structurally sound. They withstand stress daily from being stacked full with product.

When I suggest cutting holes for doors to the other container, I am not talking about cutting a whole side out of the container. What I'm envisioning is more of a naval bulkhead, where the supporting structure remains, but a small oval is cut out in the sheet metal. You could weld some metal to the containers to make it sturdy.

I personally think this would be an easy construction in general. Most people could build their own house, as long as they had a step by step booklet handy, and the internet to google specific topics. E-books are invaluable in this situatioin.

Also, someone mentioned drainage. I would probably cut PVC tubes in half, and bury them under some gravel sloped down for some drainage.
Basically, this would really come down to picking the right location. You don't want to build in a bog obviously.

Shipping containers can easily be welded to each other. That way there is a form of double redundancy when it comes to sturdiness. Each one forms a skeleton inside of a skeleton, overlapping rectangles of support become very stable. If one leg fails, there are still the larger skeletons to support it.

I would feel very safe in a bunker made of shipping containers. But, I wouldn't let 10-20 people in one, even if its a cube of 9. To me, 9 would be for about a family of four.

Having multiple, also replicates the olden cave building days when you could section yourself off if one fails, intruders or flood etc etc. You could have a seperate container for food storage and food prep, along with a seperate one for sanitation/bathroom. Separation is one of the most important things in survival, and a normal bunker provides none of this.

In long term, a bunker (if it is just one big room), will become like the Superdome after Katrina. There was feces and trash laying all around the Superdome, and it became a place like hell after a while. I'm still waiting for the Superdome movie to come out. There had to be some rapes and lots of bad stuff happening there.. I just can't imagine. How many people do you think were still selling drugs in the Superdome? I'm sure alot.

one big thing, is to wrap your whole foundation with, a thick, like 10 mill, latex sheet wrap, what this does is keep, well gaurentee no pathogen will come in, if yoiu were to be in this base, 20-30 years, concrete, would break and stretch, crack, you want a barrier, or flexibility in your foundation,

i have thought about this to its fullest extent, and something that houses just my family, 5-6 people, would cost me something like 100k. yes i could build a cheaper one, but i feel as if, once u get in there, ull be sorry for going cheap, for WHATEVER reason u go in.

rebar, steel beams, even PIPEING FLOWING THROUGH all foundation to control hot and cold. but remember latex wrap is so important. also your co2 exchange system, and oxygeon. to protect from nuke fallout is rather easy, but airborne pathgeon is rather diffucult and expensive, ull need backup filters.

i could type on and on, but its not worth it to me to give all my ideas away, at no cost lol. sorry guys. if people get pissy with me i guess i would post my ideas though, enough people,

reply to post by deadboi


Thank you, I will really look into this..

So what is the estimated cost for the cheapest, but safest underground bunker?

reply to post by furiousracer313
The cheapest and safest cost about $free.00. If you live near mountains go on a hike, find a cave, watch out for bear, and check it out. There is a reason cave are still there, it's called structural stability. Caves are caused by water erosion and the weakest portions have washed away leaving solid rock. And larger caves usually have more than one entrance in case you need to evac without being seen.

Originally posted by ThreeDeuce
Already, these shipping containers are structurally sound. They withstand stress daily from being stacked full with product.

When I suggest cutting holes for doors to the other container, I am not talking about cutting a whole side out of the container. What I'm envisioning is more of a naval bulkhead, where the supporting structure remains, but a small oval is cut out in the sheet metal.

The shipping container is a good workaround, but the reason they are so strong whilst loaded and stacked with freight is that the skin of the container is just as much a part of its structural integrity as the rest...once you start to cut holes through the skin, you create localised structural weak-points which will require reinforcing

As a rule-of-thumb, an 'averaged sample' of damp soil will weigh-in at 120lbs cu.ft/1922kg cu.mtr so any underground structure will require a roof strong enough to bear it's own weight, the weight of soil piled on top, and then factoring-in any additional live-loadings such as impact and over-pressure forces

for my family i would mine would cost around 100k, i have a set of working drawings engineerd for this, of course it probably would never be built heh,

another great idea is a space break, like what i mean is dont put the wall right up against the doug out foundation allow room for the earth to move, like a good 2 feet, that way the earth can FLEX on bomb impact stuff like that,

Originally posted by noone81
another great idea is a space break, like what i mean is dont put the wall right up against the doug out foundation allow room for the earth to move, like a good 2 feet, that way the earth can FLEX on bomb impact stuff like that,

That would be a dangerous idea...if you create a void around the walls of your buried structure you lose the counter-force of the earth that will keep the roof structure from bowing the supporting walls outward...think of it as trying to maintain an equilibrium of forces.

A concreted roof with a mass of, say, 8 tons will channel that force to the vertical supporting walls, and unless they are of enough of mass calculated to direct the forces directly downward to the foundations, will buckle

Most soils display compressible qualities, if you have ever dug out a large hole in the ground and kept the spoil, and then tried to refill that hole, unless you compact the air-voids from between the soil particles, it will appear that you have more soil than hole

Rather than use a straight cement/sand/aggregate cement mix for the walls and roof of your bunker, add a proportion of chopped flexible fibre binding to the concrete mix (eg: straw/horsehair/glass fibre/etc) which will tie the concrete mixture together and be able to withstand flexing movements

Originally posted by furiousracer313
Me, a few friends, and cousins, want to build an underground base type of thing, enough to hold in between 10-20 people.

I would stay away from shipping containers. They only bear weight on their four corners and not all the way around. burying it would have the walls cave in on you.

deadbio, though rude, is correct in stating that this is dangerous.

Steel or concrete culvert pipe is your best bet. Expensive, but it would be strong enough because that is what it is built for.

Just a thought.

I have to agree that building the shelter yourself is the number one alternative.

I sort of think about that movie, "Blast from the Past".
During the cold war, the knowledge of how to hunker down was really practiced. With today's fabrics and technologies, we should be able to easily build superior shelters.

I still feel like a caveman craving his cave...

I understand how an engineers view might be for using containers covered in concrete might be unsafe but in all seriousness if they can do it with BUSSES then a shipping container would surely handle the weight better. Containers are usually stacked how tall on ships? they are build to withstand heavy loads.

Ark II Shelter Community

Thats pics of the ARKII built using busses and covered in concrete. they braced the inside of the busses during pour and backfill but the bracing was removed later. (im sure the dome shape roof helps distribute loads some)

Im all for having an over engineered bunker but the cost effectiveness of such a project can kill it for many.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by SHNIPE]

[edit on 5-8-2008 by SHNIPE]

Originally posted by infolurker
Yes, shipping containers sell for about 2k (check ebay, I was surprised that they are sold and delivered locally in the midwest.) but I am sure the delivery cost is another few hundred but this is pennies compared to standard construction. Also, check with your city. In most cities you cannot be denied the ability to construct tornado and bomb shelters.

In order to use a Container, you will need to re-enforce it considerably. Someone also would need to have knowledge of wielding and concrete. However you would need more than one for that amount of people. Not to mention- how long would you be underground. There is Enviromental issues at the local level to consider (not that I care about that myself.).

Originally posted by SHNIPE
Containers are usually stacked how tall on ships? they are build to withstand heavy loads.

The container weight sits on the frame of the unit, not on the top and bottom surfaces. Each container is also marked for the wieght that it can handle- usually on the doors. Remember these were used in a harsh enviroment so- they can be rusty.

Originally posted by furiousracer313
Me, a few friends, and cousins, want to build an underground base type of thing, enough to hold in between 10-20 people.

Maybe it would be better to buy an old silo? Missile Bases


Things to consider: Is this a Fallout Shelter? Long Term Use? How much room do you really need? What about fresh air and recyled air? How far underground? What about power? Water? Are you protecting from Bio or Chem? You need to know what your purpose is.



[edit on 6-8-2008 by ShadowMaster]

Isnt the idea of being underground so no one knows where you are? You asked about city laws/rules about this sort of thing. I'm going to guess that at least one or more people may see you digging a giant hole to drop a connex into. Also, if its in a city, you have piles of items burried under you, water, sewer, electricy, just to name a few. By the time you go about getting all of this stuff marked, talking with the city about its legality, and then actually start production, half of the county will know where you are. Heck, someone may video it and stick it on youtube.

I like the idea of an underground bunker, fortunately for me, I wont need one, lots of caves in the mountains near me. But before you dive into this and start dropping alot of time and money, you should really think about your future? How long will you be living there or nearby? Would you be better served buying out of area property and developing that so its slightly farther from view?

I think you are on the right track as far as wanting a shelter, but before you go nuts, step back and decide the best long-term course of action.

Hi, my name mike and i live in Louisville, Kentucky and I agree with you on wanting to build a underground base or shelter like yourself! I want to build a 3 to 4 story one because all of the # going on in our world!! Like a war to come, an asteroid, or this New World Order that Bush is talking about. Building such a massive shelter would mean more room for my children and family to live comfortably while all the chaos is going on up above. Because living in such a tight space would be just too much!! for 30 days or more. I have been in contruction going on for 9 years now and i have alot of experince in electrical, plumbing, masonary, welding, and other things of that nature with a school degree to back it up! I have a lot of friends and co-workers who will gladly give me free material to go toward to building what ever i want. i have 5 years in Electrical and 2 and a half in Sheet metal and 2 years in steel fitting under the General contractor i work for. I have carefully planned out how this base will play out like making natural air using plant life in a controled environment, water filteration, food storage, a huge green house for food croping and for comfort, electical magnetic generator for electricity (that i found on the internet website) entertainment room, and much, much more.... I can go on for hours on this. But anyway, this might be some ideas for you? I have already have land to build this on and will be starting on this soon!! I now have to get a loan to dig a hole on my land to get it started. Be sure to build yours using concrete with half inch rebar, 2 to 4 foot steel beams, rubber for the base of the floor and walls, sand or slate to fill in between the conctete wall and the dirt, and most important is to make your base deep as mush as possible ( at least 40 to 50 feet or better) to withstand any destruction from up above before beginning your first floor. Any Commens are Welcome!!

if I would build something like this , I would build a GEODESIC DOME - technically a sphere inside the earth. However, for let say 15 people you would need at least a radius of 7-8 meters for this structure.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.geo-dome.co.uk...


however, I am not sure what kind of permission you would need for this kind of "house" .. but the price would be at least 2x times the price of a similar sized house on the ground. God luck and send pictures


edit: i do not talk about 2x times the price of an wooden house , that is a oversized garage not a house

[edit on 8-8-2008 by sty]