Science Proving 'Global Flood Myth' true - Dating for Prehistoric Civilization Legitimized!

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt

1. The Carolina Bays -- TWISI NOTE: I am going to ask his opinion on the reasons for the diffuculties and disagreement from many quarters about dating these.

Alternative explanations have been proferred and the date these features appeared also seems in doubt. They do look like the results of an impact event though. IMO.

2. Evidence of the ecological disaster exists in a thin layer of sediment that has been found from Alberta to New Mexico. The sediment layer contains high concentrations of iridium, fullerenes and other compounds associated with space rocks and impacts. The concentration of the iridium in the sediment layer dating back to 12,900 years is several times higher than normal. It also contains compounds called "fullerenes" with extraterrestrial gases in them, as well as glasslike carbons that require extraordinarily high temperatures to form. It is a very discrete, well-defined layer.

Agree this may be indicative of an impact evident

3. A group of US scientists that include West reported that they have found a layer of microscopic diamonds at 26 different sites in Europe, Canada and America.

Agree this may be indicative of an impact evident

4. Coincided with the last catastrophic animal extinction, more than three-fourths of the large Ice Age animals, including woolly mammoths, mastodons, saber-toothed tigers and giant bears, died out.

Only in North America All the large ice age mammals of Africa, for example, survived. And there is no evidence these extinction occured overnight (according to fossil record) - it appears to have been a matter of several thousand years with some species disappearing before others (woolly mammoths became extinct - so far as we know - about 4,000 years ago) and these extinctions also coincided with increases in other megafaunal populations. An impact may have precipitated climatic changes that led to declines in population, but that is by no means the only explanation.

5. Samples of diamonds, gold and silver that have been found in Hamilton and Clermont counties in Ohio and Brown County in Indiana have been conclusively sourced through X-ray diffractometry in the lab of UC Professor of Geology, Warren Huff back to the diamond fields region of Canada. You might think of this as chemical fingerprinting.

I don't know enough to comment on that

6. Evidence of ice age civilization in Gobekli Tepe in Turkey that ended very suddenly. The entire site was entombed under tons of earth.

There is no evidence that it was entombed naturally. Nor that such entombment occurred withing thousands of years of the supposed impact event. Therefore this seems wholly unrelated.

7. Evidence by William Scott Anderson of ocean diatoms found directly under the boulders deposited when the ice sheets melted in Wisconsin.

Again I don;t know enough to comment. I'd have to read his paper and andy subsequent responses in scientific journals.

8. Evidence of Lake Missoula, Altai and Agassiz megafloods.

There's no evidence these occured at the same time though - indeed the evidence points to several releases of water from Lake Missoula (btw one of my favourite book titles is David Alt's Glacial Lake Missoula and it's humongous floods

Pleased to see mention of the Altai flood though - not one that's received much prominence Both the Missoula and Altai floods occurred at a time and in a place where they may well have been experienced by modern humans and possibly given rise to long lasting mythic stories (I think so!) There is, however, no reason to believe either were caused by an impact event.

More on the Altai Flood here:

www.mines.edu...

Some have argued this may have been the source of the Noah's Flood story (though I disagree)

Hello all,

While I don't disagree for the most part with the list, here are the ones I do and why.

4. Coincided with the last catastrophic animal extinction, more than three-fourths of the large Ice Age animals, including woolly mammoths, mastodons, saber-toothed tigers and giant bears, died out.

Duh!!! That's like saying that during the last major animal extinction many animals died. That goes without saying. Also, whereas there may have been an extinction, there is no evidence it had anything to do with an impact 12,900 years ago/10,900 BC. See the following:

Radiocarbon evidence of mid-Holocene mammoths stranded on an Alaskan Bering Sea island

Holocene dwarf mammoths from Wrangel Island in the Siberian Arctic

Mastodons Driven to Extinction by Tuberculosis, Fossils Suggest

Smilodon fatalis

Saber-toothed cats

North American Short-Faced Bear

Bison (Bison antiquus)

Stag-moose

WOOLLY RHINOCEROS - COELODONTA ANTIQUITATIS

Camelops hesternus - Western Camel

Glyptodon

Giant Beaver

Extinct Giant Deer Survived Ice Age, Study Says

Panthera atrox - American Lion

American Lion - mentioning cave lion Panthera leo spelaea

6. Evidence of ice age civilization in Gobekli Tepe in Turkey that ended very suddenly. The entire site was entombed under tons of earth.

Except Gobekli Tepe doesn't qualify as a civilization as such and there is no evidence found of any residential structures. Also, it has been proposed that it was abandoned due to water supply drying up.

Gobekli Tepe

8. Evidence of Lake Missoula, Altai and Agassiz megafloods.

No evidence that the three events happened at the same time.

Altai flood - 13,800 to 12,000 BC

Glacial Lake Missoula and the Missoula floods - suggesting 10,000 BC

Lake Agassiz and River Warren - 9,500-9,000 BC and 7,900-7,200 BC

cormac

ESSAN/CORMAC - I agree with your skeptical appraisal of Gobelki, I personally tend towards the idea that it was ceremonial and the inhabitants migrated due to warring or for enviromental reasons.

I will ask Marusek why he holds that assertions, as well as how he came to his conclusions on the the timeline for mass extinctions and the megaflooding of Missoula, Altai and Agassiz. Perhaps he will share his data sources.

I am pleased to see that some kind of consensus it being reached, however tenuous, around comet impact possibly being the cause of the end of Pleistocene era. Obviously the 'truth will out' in the course of time, barring a conspiracy to silence it , and it would be a good thing if we could agree at least on that possibility.

My personal goal with this thread is to open the door enough for those of us who would like to have specutlative threads about pre-historic civs, global flooding etc. that we can engage in a dialogue w/o getting shut-down with the old saw horse of "based on what we know it is impossible" out of the gate. But to be able to get past that and go on to have thoughtful and thought-provoking threads with intelligent skeptics like yourselves.

If we can find a way to agree that legitimate, scientific theories are rewriting what has been considered conventional wisdom, that would be a great step in that direction and I think make the Lost Civ. forum a more interesting place.

I live in hope... and hope I'm not deluded.
Cheers!

CORRESPONDENCE MARUSEK PT. 3
IN RESPONSE TO SKEPTICISM OF -

I paraprashed Essan's comments as they were the most cogent of the last two skeptics that addressed Marusek's list of what he considers evidence of his "Global Flood" Theory. (NOTE: When I say 'they' I am referring to those who are skeptical of his theory.)

TWISI SAID - "The timeline for mass extinctions: their assertions being that they occurred only in North America, saying all the large ice age mammals of Africa, for example, survived. And there is no evidence these extinction occurred overnight (according to fossil record) – that it appears to have been a matter of several thousand years with some species disappearing before others (woolly mammoths became extinct - about 4,000 years ago) and these extinctions also coincided with increases in other mega-faunal populations. While they finally agreed that an impact may have precipitated climatic changes that led to declines in population, they feel the record indicates that is by no means the only explanation."

MARUSEK'S RESPONSE

Much of the mass extinctions of large mammals occurred in the Northern Hemisphere at the time period. This is probably logical because the origin of the flood water is North America. I believe Australia suffered a mass extinction around 50,000 years ago. Although woolly mammoths became extinct about 4,000 years ago, as I recall, the mammoths disappeared from almost the entire earth except for one location near Russia where a small group survived for several millennia until they died out about 4,000 tears ago.

TWISI SAID - "The mega-flooding of Missoula, Altai and Agassiz: they believe there is no evidence that the three events happened at the same time. And further assert that the evidence points to several releases of water from Lake Missoula, but they were all gladdened that the oft overlooked Altai received some notice, but believe the evidence points to multiple release from it over a period of thousands of years.

MARUSEKS RESPONSE

I suspect the timing of these events are debatable. I remember reading about J. Harlen Bretz who proposed the Missoula mega-flood theory. www.detectingdesign.com... This is one article discussing his struggle. He was ridiculed for almost a half century until his theory was finally accepted. When they say that "evidence points to multiple releases from it over a period of thousands of years." It might be interesting to have them detail the evidence. I suspect the evidence falls under the category "theory".

Here is a LINK for the data he references.

TWISI SAID - "Golbeki: One skeptic chimed in with, “there is no evidence that it was entombed naturally. Nor that such entombment occurred within thousands of years of the supposed impact event”, taking the position that it seems wholly unrelated to the Global Flood Myth Theory".

MARUSEK RESPONDS -

One of the articles on the Golbeki wrote:

'Schmidt and I descend a ladder to the floor of the dig, where the ancient dust is banked against the T-stones. He continues: “The really strange thing is that in 8,000BC, during the shift to agriculture, Gobekli Tepe was buried. I mean deliberately – not in a mudslide. For some reason the hunters, or the ex-hunters, decided to entomb the entire site in soil. The earth we are removing from the stones was put here by man himself: all these hills are artificial.” '

So Schmidt concluded that early man completely buried this city, hauling tons and tons of soil to cover it up. From my perspective, the site was entombed and a natural cause is more reasonable than a man-made cause. I would say this is one area to keep an eye on as further research is disclosed.

TWISI - "I have a question as to your opinion about the dating of the Carolina Bays. It seems no one can agree on the timeline, and I cannot get clear gist of why that is."

MARUSEK'S RESPONSE

I think there is still debate about whether the Carolina Bays were caused by an impact. If the craters were cause by comet fragments rather than an asteroid, there would be very little physical evidence of the impactor because most of the impactor would dissolve away, as a gas. I suspect that the reason why the dating of the Carolina bays is vague is because the sites haven't been analyzed sufficiently.

END OF CORRESPONDENCE

I am not comfortable lifting these exchanges in their entirety so, I will now paraphrase him in closing; it is his belief that the evidence supporting his theory has doubled since he published it in 2003. He does acknowledge that while the pieces do not fit perfectly, they seem to be coming together. It is his belief that time will further prove the 'Global Flood Myth Theory' correct.

Most people are putting WAY too dramatic a spin on the impct event itself.
Its not like the event balsted the entire ice cap away, or broke it free??

The ice cap over north america at that time was up to 5k thick in places. When the comet broke up the main portion of the blast was absorbed by the ice, it might have even melted a little of it off. As the hundreds of thousands of larger pieces continued down range, still containing much of the energy of the original object, they would have impacted still being very hot.
I havent seen any speculation as to how far to the south anything would have been killed by the blast itself, but the massive jet of hot air and debris would have continued on till impact. With the larger peices even making it to the ocean.
This started wild fires in the dry forests that bordered the ice and the savanas farther to the south.
These fires would have raged unabated for months, if not years.
The ensuing climatalogical chaos surley would have triggered massive thunder storms from the mixing of hot and cold air and the moisture from the ice cap melt off(small insignificant amount).
These thunder storms would have in turn started fires in areas, far away and unaffected by the initial event.
And north america was very dry at that point in history and would have lit up like california on a hot june day.
A couple of months ago 1 series of thunder storms started 800 fires in one day. There are still fires burning that started on that day.
Now after burning for a few months or maybe even years, the ash and soot generated by the fires would have coated the ice caps, this light coating of darkish material would have acccelerated the melting of the ice cap, they melted off in hundreds of years not the thousands it would have taken other wise.
This accelerated melt off triggered the flip into the next ice age, by shutting off the atlantic conveyor.

There were animals that died as a direct result of the intial explosion, but the overall extinction event took generations to come to a head, through loss of habitat and chnges in climate.
And when people argue that the extinction of megfauna didnt happen in africa, WTF, have you not actually looked at the fossil record. It did just not to the same degree. Its location straddling the equator helps insulate it from dramatic shifts in climate.

More later got to back to work

reply to post by punkinworks

Most people are putting WAY too dramatic a spin on the impct event itself. Its not like the event balsted the entire ice cap away, or broke it free??

Hey Punkin - Thanks for taking the time to respond. If I may, how do you know what you stated above? The whole point of what we are discussing here is Marusek's Global Flood Theory -- which he said would be possible if a COMET hit the N.A. ice sheet during the end of the Pleistocene era -- and combining that with the evidence now coming forward that such an event did indeed happen.

He went into detail about how a cometary impact could affect the ice sheet and in turn cause flooding on an almost global scale, and details how it would impact the Northern Hemisphere with mass extinctions.

Also, keep in mind that what we -- BFFT and I -- are positing is that most of the human population would have been living on the continental shelf in the Northern Hemisphere and the devastation to these civilizations would have been sudden and catastrophic if indeed a portion of the ice sheet broke off into the ocaen.

(BFFT also brought up a most excellent point, IMO, when raising the question of underground water shifting as the land mass responded to the shifting weight of the ice sheets and the overall impact(s) from the comet and cometary fragments.)

I can see that you are taking a very decided stance about what the actual results of the cometary impact was, and wonder if you would share with us the sources that give you such firm, comprehensive and defintive postion.

EDIT TO ADD:

And when people argue that the extinction of megfauna didnt happen in africa, WTF, have you not actually looked at the fossil record. It did just not to the same degree. Its location straddling the equator helps insulate it from dramatic shifts in climate.

You need to ake that up with Essan and cormac. Guys?

[edit on 5-8-2008 by TheWayISeeIt]

Question what would happen if the comet/ asteroid was a large chunk of ice? Would it possiably melt instead of burn up, ran for a long time from the atomizing of the water, and cause massive flooding? If such a asteroid hit would it leave a crater or would it leave a lake or remain frozen a look mor like a glacier still hiding from us today?

reply to post by patrickrpg


Here is the theory we are discussing that describes in great detail what would happen iof s comet hit the ice shelf/cap over N.A. in that period. This link and others are on the first page of the thread too:GLOBAL FLOOD THEORY THAT IS PROVING OUT

A myth is all that the great flood is, many civilizations were growing during the same time as Noah's myth and have no recorded history of any flood or is there a break in the recoding history of these civilizations. Forget god and the bible its not possible for that amount of water to be released from are atmosphere for 40 days and nights. The main thing to focus on is the Myth cause that's all it will ever be. I Suppose Gliese 581C also had a great flood, i don't think so. I guess you could travel 20 light years and find out, I'm sure myths are universal.

Posted by Icon
PLEASE PEOPLE OPEN YOUR EYES, THE TRUTH IS STARING YOU IN THE FACE!!!

UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT OF THE COMETARY IMPACT / MASSIVE CATALYSM / GLOBAL FLOOD MTYH:

James Marusek brought to my attention an article that was published yesterday. It seems Allen West has attained samples from some of the Carolina Bays -- the dating and cause of which has been under much speculation in this thread.

"What we have found is, several big Carolina bays are lined with diamonds," he said. "This is the first time extraterrestrial materials have been found lining the bays."

West has found diamonds inside the carbon spherules and trapped in the glasslike carbon. He says that suggests, but does not yet prove, that an extraterrestrial impact created the bays.

"Even though the diamonds are the strongest of those 14 markers, it's the collective weight of all 14 of them that's important," West said. "It's very difficult to argue that all 14 of them, in the same layer across two continents, is accidental. It wasn't accidental when the dinosaurs went extinct, and it's not accidental now, we think."

LINK TO ARTICLE

This is pretty exciting as the pace of the data coming together to support cataclysmic cometary impact ending the Ice Age is pretty fast and furious... by academic standards.

My memory works fine, thank you very much. Why do you think I highlighted this part?

comet-impact-causing-end-of-ice- age/mass extinction theory actually PROVED IT

It PROVED no such thing. The Ice Age was already in decline it, at best, helped it along.

I am suggesting that since every post YD era culture has a tradition of an ancient cataclysmic flood myth that they are based on the same event. I do not think I am alone in that suppostion as all of the accounts relate to a PREHISTORIC EVENT and pretty much TELL THE SAME STORY.

Your suggestions and suppositions are irrelevant to the facts.

Even your latest article says:

He says that suggests, but does not yet prove, that an extraterrestrial impact created the bays.

So it's still in the realm of speculation and theory and not fact. And even if it is confirmed that the Carolina Bays were created by impact it still doesn't PROVE that it CAUSED the end of the ice age/mass extinction.

cormac

cormac -

I think we are getting into the sitcky-wicket of cross-posting here, so I am going to do this once and carefully. Your quoting me above with a partial sentence misrepresenting the point I was stating -- I said:

the skeptics who went to the comet impact/implosion region found the evidence they were going to use to debunk Bunch, Wittke, et al's. comet-impact-causing-end-of-ice- age/mass extinction theory actually PROVED IT.

The intent being: what the skeptics believed would disprove the cometary impact theory instead proved it out. i.e ET nano-diamonds from Ohio. The very same ET nano-diamonds they are now finding in the Carolina Bays.

cormac- So it's still in the realm of speculation and theory and not fact. And even if it is confirmed that the Carolina Bays were created by impact it still doesn't PROVE that it CAUSED the end of the ice age/mass extinction.

The whole point of this thread is marrying the emerging data of the once thought impossible cometary impact over N.A. that brought on the end of the last Ice Age in sudden cataclysm (which on further investigation keeps being supported) with James Marusek's Global Flood Myth Theory. Which, to reiterate, was published in 2002 -- five years before the evidence began to emerge that there was indeed a cometary impact/detonation over the N.A. ice shelf.

If you look at the earlier portions of this thread you will see that he is one of the world's foremost experts in impacts and keeps fancy company. Furthermore he outlines in his theory what kind of global devastation would occur if it were ever found that such a comet impact did indeed occur in that timeframe. ALL OF WHICH EXPLAINS WHY HE THEORIZES THAT THE GLOBAL FLOOD MYTH IS BASED IN FACT AND ALSO WHY EVIDENCE OF ANCIENT CULTURES WOULD BE BURIED DEEP IN THE OCEAN FLOOR.

cormac- Even your latest article says:

"He (West) says that suggests, but does not yet prove, that an extraterrestrial impact created the bays. "

West also states:

"Even though the diamonds are the strongest of those 14 markers, it's the collective weight of all 14 of them that's important," West said. "It's very difficult to argue that all 14 of them, in the same layer across two continents, is accidental. It wasn't accidental when the dinosaurs went extinct, and it's not accidental now, we think."

So the excitement here is that science is indeed proving out -- see the title, notice the tense -- (I will take the hit on the "!" though, it should have been "?") Marusek's theory as ever mounting evidence is emerging that there was indeed a massive comet that would have caused global flooding and catclysm in the timeframe we are discussing.

Respectfully.

Exactly. If an impact caused the Caroline Bays and brought about the end if the last glacial, it must have occurred at least 20,000 years ago.

The ice sheets had been in retreat long before the temporary resurgence associated with the Younger Dryas.

reply to post by TheWayISeeIt

Your quoting me above with a partial sentence misrepresenting the point I was stating

Because that was the part of the sentence that had no business being there. You are trying to show that an impactor was possible. Fine, it's possible. But there is no evidence that the impactor was proven to be the cause of the end of the Ice Age, which is what that sentence suggests.

Your wording of that sentence leaves much to be desired. Either that, or you were intentionally trying to slip one by, hoping nobody was paying attention.

cormac


[edit on 9-9-2008 by cormac mac airt]

reply to post by cormac mac airt


cormac, I quoted the whole sentence, and then for clarification, the intent. I am not trying to sneak anything past anybody.

I also doubt anyone else is sharing in that conclusion as I am having to hyper and re-articulate every tiny thing because you are in some kind of nitpicking-nasty-cause-you-got-no-point kinda mood today.

Meanwhile, I'll be back later with many examples of evidence of marine animals that have been and found, around the world that could only have been created by immense, recent, oceanic tidal waves. I do this in the hopes that a dialogue can be had here.

Cheers!

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
Meanwhile, I'll be back later with many examples of evidence of marine animals that have been and found, around the world that could only have been created by immense, recent, oceanic tidal waves. I do this in the hopes that a dialogue can be had here.

Cheers!

I look forward to discussing your evidence

There is no evidence for the 'global flood' in the geologic record of New Zealand (we are part of the world too, and as such research from here shouldn't be excluded!). There are periods of inundation associated with tectonics and eustasy, but no sudden catastrophe.
Interestingly and on a side note, the Younger Dryas is in question regarding its signature in New Zealand.

reply to post by Essan

I look forward to discussing your evidence

I bet you do. And I know I am remiss in putting some up, I got caught on another thread during my 'ATS time' today. And it is harder going than I thought, as I was, and am running, into a lot of creationist sites -- I should've seen that coming -- and I know that will not do here.

Neverthless, I am slowly compiling data that will. Anon.

Okay – here we go, in trying to stay away from YEC sites and references (which was incredibly difficult... those people are reallydetermined) we get to evidence of massive flooding that would have inundated the habitable coastal regions of the world using academic papers that measure isotopes, etc.

I will also include a few of the more accessible ‘anomalies’ as well to make this more fun to read that it was to research ('')

Let’s start with evidence for massive flooding at Approx. 11, 500 YBP in what is considered the most habitable regions due to the jet streams during the end of the YD Era i.e. Caribbean/Cuba, India and the Mediterranean.

‘GLOBAL’ FLOOD

Hills point to catastrophic Ice Age floods

Fields of low hills that cover parts of inland Canada and the northern United States may seem quite distant from the watery world of Atlantis. Yet a Canadian geologist proposes these hills formed from huge Ice Age floods that sharply raised global sea levels and could have spawned myths of a swamped continent.

"There's nothing in recorded history that matches the size of these floods," says John Shaw of Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario, who has estimated the extent of the floods from the size of the ridges.

According to Shaw, heat from the Earth (TWISI NOTE: Or from a massive comet that impacted into the ice shelf creating massive heat beneeth the surface of the ice. See: Marusek’s theory for detail. ) formed huge lakes of meltwater that remained trapped beneath the North American ice sheet. As the sheet began to retreat near the end of the glacial age, the water broke through and flowed in torrents down to the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Ocean. While flowing under the ice cap, water would have surged in vast, turbulent sheets that sculpted and scoured drumlins. Each flood lasted until the weight of the ice cap once again shut off the outlet of the covered lake, Shaw says.

Through simple calculations described in the September GEOLOGY, Shaw estimates that 84,000 cubic kilometers of water must have discharged during the creation of one large drumlin field in northern Saskatchewan. Upon reaching the ocean, this flood would have raised global sea levels by 23 centimeters during a few days or weeks, he says.

And also take into consideration the ‘land tsunami’ aspect of the water getting to the ocean and then the impact it had when it arrived. This is not a gentle 23 centimeter rise.

SAME ARTICLE ALSO SAYS

GULF OF MEXICO – CARIBBEAN – CUBA

Shaw's hypothesis echoes ideas raised 14 years ago by a group of oceanographers who studied the ancient remains of one-celled animals buried under sediment on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico. The ratios of oxygen isotopes in these organisms suggested that sometime around 11,500 years ago, a large amount of freshwater entered the gulf, says Cesare Emiliani of the University of Miami in Coral Gables. On the basis of the isotope studies, Emiliani and his colleagues theorized that a sudden influx of meltwater from the ice sheet could have rapidly raised sea levels, sparking myths of a great deluge.

LINK

Another study of the Gulf of Mexico showing the same dating:

"Evidence for the surge comes from two sediment cores extracted from the northeastern Gulf of Mexico. Oxygen isotope ratios in the fossil plankton suggested that the surface water there became notably fresh around 11,600 years ago-creating a so-called 'meltwater spike' in the fossil record. After this time, the relative abundance of warm-loving forams increased." (The Coevolution of Climate and Life by Stephen H. Schneider and Randi Londer 1984, pages 85-86)

INDIA –

Evidence was found in 2002 of a submerged city and was initially dated to 9,500 yrs old years old. LINK

Further research and dating came back with the astonishing:

A round of further underwater explorations was made in the Gulf of Khambhat (Cambay) site by the NIOT team from 2003 to 2004, and the samples obtained of what was presumed to be pottery were sent to laboratories in Oxford, UK and Hanover, Germany, as well as several institutions within India, to be dated by Optically Stimulated Luminescence (OSL) and thermoluminescence dating techniques. These pieces returned dates ranging from 13000 ± 1950 BP up to the oldest at 31270 ± 2050 BP, leading to NIOT's chief geologist Badrinaryan Badrinaryan stating that they had uncovered the earliest-known pottery remains in the world, from about 31000 BP

LINK

Constraining the timing of the most recent cataclysmic flood event from ice-dammed lakes in the Russian Altai Mountains, Siberia, using cosmogenic in situ

Our precise surface exposure ages suggest that all boulders were associated with the most recent out of a number of cataclysmic floods that occurred at 15.8 ± 1.8 ka. The field location of the boulders implies that they were deposited by the largest late Pleistocene flood that drained the Chuya-Katun Lake completely following initial dam failure. A published reconstruction of the late glacial paleoenvironment in the vicinity of the former ice dam indicates that dam failure was likely a result of climatically induced downwasting of glaciers. The failure of the ice dam provides more evidence for the timing of widespread warming during the late glacial in southern Russia.

LINK

And I will end this post with some of the ‘fun’, unexplained marine anomalies I so rashly promised earlier.

WHALE BONES IN MICHIGAN & CANADA!

The discovery of fossil whale bones in Michigan has been a source of some embarrassment for the conventional geologic story of the history of the Great Lakes region, and the notion that the area has remained above sea level for 290 million years since the end of the Pennsylvanian period, as whale fossils are obviously evidence that the land was submerged beneath the sea.

LINK

Okay, have at it. I’m totally burned out right now, but as soon as I can get my will to live back, I will post more data that still needs to be sorted into a cohesive fashion

[edit on 11-9-2008 by TheWayISeeIt]

(bbcode)

[edit on 13-9-2008 by Jbird]

Through simple calculations described in the September GEOLOGY, Shaw estimates that 84,000 cubic kilometers of water must have discharged during the creation of one large drumlin field in northern Saskatchewan. Upon reaching the ocean, this flood would have raised global sea levels by 23 centimeters during a few days or weeks, he says.

I'm not sure how to calculate the math, but considering 84,000 cu km of water is only 3.7 times the volume of the combined Great Lakes I don't see how it could raise GLOBAL sea level by 23 cm/9 inches. Also, 9 inches of water over more than 9 days is LESS than one inch per day, not exactly a flood by normal standards.

A round of further underwater explorations was made in the Gulf of Khambhat (Cambay) site by the NIOT team from 2003 to 2004, and the samples obtained of what was presumed to be pottery were sent to laboratories in Oxford, UK and Hanover, Germany, as well as several institutions within India, to be dated by Optically Stimulated Luminescence (OSL) and thermoluminescence dating techniques. These pieces returned dates ranging from 13000 ± 1950 BP up to the oldest at 31270 ± 2050 BP, leading to NIOT's chief geologist Badrinaryan Badrinaryan stating that they had uncovered the earliest-known pottery remains in the world, from about 31000 BP

Although there still remains much controversy and a nationalistic promotion of the alleged finds.

Marine archaeology in the Gulf of Cambay

The discovery of fossil whale bones in Michigan has been a source of some embarrassment for the conventional geologic story of the history of the Great Lakes region, and the notion that the area has remained above sea level for 290 million years since the end of the Pennsylvanian period, as whale fossils are obviously evidence that the land was submerged beneath the sea.

From your own link:

Carbon 14 dating of samples taken from the Michigan whale bones by Harington produced enigmatic results; the age reported for the sperm whale was less than 190 years; the results for the finback whale were 790 - 650 years old, and the right whale was dated as being between 810 and 690 years old. (Holman, 1995, p. 207) Perhaps these results reflect some kind of recent contamination.

So the dating doesn't even put it back more than 1,000 years. Without evidence to the contrary it's just as possible some varieties of cetaceans managed to use the St. Lawrence River to get to the Great Lakes.

cormac