My Grandpa, a Freemason

First off, I would like to offer a small disclaimer. I can not answer too many question. It's not that I dont want to, but my grandpa is dead (more on that in a minute) and asking my family members questions is hard because of his untimely death, and the fact that the Freemasons are quite secretive. All I can offer is some details that I do know about my grandpas life that some may find interesting.

What I do know is that after he joined, my family became VERY wealthy and well respected in the town in which I live. No one in my family knows where the money came from, but who cares, it's money right? (No one in my family is really open to conspiracy theorys except me and my dad, but he doesn't like to discuss his dads life much.) Anyway, when my grandma was pregnant with their first child (my Aunt), the Freemasons tried paying my Grandma to leave the town. I really wish I knew more about this part, but noone will talk about it. All I know is she didn't. A few years later, my dad was born. I have never been told anything about payments for her to disapear this time so I will assume it didnt happen. I think my dad was a teenager when my grandpa was killed in a bad train accident. He was a n engineer and someone didnt switch the tracks over, and two trains collided head on. (To me this sounds like too big of an OOPS to be just an accident.)

A few other tidbits of info:
1. My family name is no longer revered like it was only 30 some years ago. (I have no idea what happend, but things changed after the accident.)
2. We no longer have the money we once did.
3. Noone in my family is a current member of the Freemasons.
4. My grandpa was a 32nd degree mason (I wont pretend to know what that means), and I have heard him rrefered to as a Shriner once or twice.

I know this isn't a huge amount of info, but I thought some of you may have found this as interesting as I do

reply to post by goldbomb444


What do you hope to gain by starting this thread? Are you seeking answers? Are you wanting speculation about the wealth? About his death? You've laid out his story, but it's not clear why you've posted it here.

Tell us what you'd like to discuss (or any questions you might have for the dozen+ Masons here) and we can get the ball rolling. Otherwise, you've given us anecdotes that don't add up to anything in particular.

I wish I knew where he got the money. I am a 32nd and I am still looking for the masonic gold. Was your grandfather a good man? I would assume there was no masonic conspiracy in his death as that sounds like an accident. Not knowing the area or the family I can't say for sure. You should do some more reaserch into the masons in your area. You could even find one and ask him about your grandfather. I am sure there is probably a bad mason out there, I just haven't met one yet.

One reason I posted this here is because I figuered some people are as interested in the Freemasons as I am and like to get as much info as posible.

I should have laid the questions I do have in a better format (like actually asking them )

1. Does anyone have any clue as to how belonging to a secret society such as the Masons could make someone respected and wealthy, even among non-masons?
2. What is a 'Shriner' and how high of a level is 32nd degree?
3. Does anyone else find the death sort of odd?
4. Any clue as to why the Masons would try to pay my grandma to dissapear with her first born child?

[edit on 29-7-2008 by goldbomb444]

Originally posted by goldbomb444
One reason I posted this here is because I figuered some people are as interested in the Freemasons as I am and like to get as much info as posible.

I should have laid the questions I do have in a better format (like actually asking them

)

1. Does anyone have any clue as to how belonging to a secret society such as the Masons could make someone respected and wealthy, even among non-masons?

Not that I am aware of. We as masons don't advertise much and most of my lodge is made up of working folks like myself. (waiting for the lottery winnings)

2. What is a 'Shriner' and how high of a level is 32nd degree?

The Shrine is a group like the masons. They raise money for children and have parades. Our group dresses up like clowns to comfort buned and crippled children. You have to be a Mason to be a Shriner. The 32nd is a degree in the Scotish Rite. Another group like the Shrine but different. You have to be a mason to one of them as well.

3. Does anyone else find the death sort of odd?

Not me.

4. Any clue as to why the Masons would try to pay my grandma to dissapear with her first born child?

No idea. I couldn't even begin to guess about this. It doesn't sound like anything the Masons would do. Did you get this info first hand?

[edit on 29-7-2008 by goldbomb444]

[edit on 29-7-2008 by network dude]

Originally posted by goldbomb444
One reason I posted this here is because I figuered some people are as interested in the Freemasons as I am and like to get as much info as posible.

I should have laid the questions I do have in a better format (like actually asking them

)

1. Does anyone have any clue as to how belonging to a secret society such as the Masons could make someone respected and wealthy, even among non-masons?
2. What is a 'Shriner' and how high of a level is 32nd degree?
3. Does anyone else find the death sort of odd?
4. Any clue as to why the Masons would try to pay my grandma to dissapear with her first born child?

[edit on 29-7-2008 by goldbomb444]

Masonry prides itself on taking care of the widows and orphans of masons. If these 'masonic payments' happened after his death it may have been part of the charity of taking care of widows and orphans.

There is no way to become wealthy through freemasonry. Respect is something that is earned and not given so being highly respected was hopefully because he set a good example for others.

The 32nd degree is given in the Scottish Rite. When you become a mason you go through three degrees and you can join other organizations to go through more degrees but it's certainly not required.

The Shriners are also an appendant body to masonry, that is to say you must be a mason to be a shriner. They are most known for their massive charity work supporting the Shriner's Hospitals for Children, which are located around the country and take care of children absolutely for free.

I do not find the death odd. Railroading is a dangerous occupation, particularly so in the older times. It sounds like an accident.

Finally I don't believe the masons would ever ask anyone to leave town. If this is true then it is from some unsavory characters that would certainly be ousted from masonry if they tried something like this.

I hope this helps!

About the paying thing, I got it from my father, who got it from his mother. I guess he fought tooth and nail to not have to move her. My dad made it sound like she lived in the town secretly...

Originally posted by goldbomb444
I should have laid the questions I do have in a better format (like actually asking them

)

It helps.

1. Does anyone have any clue as to how belonging to a secret society such as the Masons could make someone respected and wealthy, even among non-masons?

Masons are taught to be upright in their dealings with all men equally. It would be considered bad form for a Mason to cheat, wrong or defraud any non-Mason, and an expellable offense if he did any of the same to a brother Mason. When properly applied, the teachings of Masonry "make good men better". If your grandfather was a good man, honorable, treated his fellows fairly and lived his life well, helping others as best he could when the situation permitted, it is right that he'd receive respect in the community.

2. What is a 'Shriner' and how high of a level is 32nd degree?

Masonry has a number of side organizations--two of which are the Shriners and the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite confers degrees from 4°-32° to all its members, and there's an honorary 33° given to some members who've served Masonry above and beyond the call of duty, as it were. It used to be the case that to join the Shriners you had to either be a 32° Scottish Rite Mason or a Knight Templar of the York Rite Masons (the top degree of that side organization). The Shrine has since changed that such that any Master Mason (3rd degree) can join, without having to first progress through any other side order.

3. Does anyone else find the death sort of odd?

Not really. One switch in a train yard is all it takes. Mass & momentum... sheer physics... account for the result. The results of the mistake are huge, undoubtedly, but the mistake itself is very small.

4. Any clue as to why the Masons would try to pay my grandma to dissapear with her first born child?

Never heard of such a thing happening, so I couldn't really say.

[edit on 7/29/2008 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by goldbomb444
About the paying thing, I got it from my father, who got it from his mother. I guess he fought tooth and nail to not have to move her. My dad made it sound like she lived in the town secretly...

Do you think your dad would be willing to provide more details? I wonder if it's a rumor or an impression rather than a fact.

What time period are we talking about when all this went on?

Originally posted by goldbomb444
One reason I posted this here is because I figuered some people are as interested in the Freemasons as I am and like to get as much info as posible.

I should have laid the questions I do have in a better format (like actually asking them

)

1. Does anyone have any clue as to how belonging to a secret society such as the Masons could make someone respected and wealthy, even among non-masons?
2. What is a 'Shriner' and how high of a level is 32nd degree?
3. Does anyone else find the death sort of odd?
4. Any clue as to why the Masons would try to pay my grandma to dissapear with her first born child?

[edit on 29-7-2008 by goldbomb444]

1. i am a poor college student who is a 32nd degree master mason, Shriner, and officer in my lodge. lol i haven't gained ANY wealth (in the money sense that is) from masonry.

2. Shriners are an organization which pretty much deals with charity even more. which includes the Shriner's burn centers and hospitals for kids free of charge. they were the fez's and drive around in little cars at parades. also cant forget the shrine clowns lol.

3. No, not really.

4. lol wut? i doubt that any lodge would try to pay someone off to leave a city or town. that doesn't make sense why someone would do that in the first place. i don't see any masons motive behind an action like that.

Originally posted by emsed1

Originally posted by goldbomb444
About the paying thing, I got it from my father, who got it from his mother. I guess he fought tooth and nail to not have to move her. My dad made it sound like she lived in the town secretly...

Do you think your dad would be willing to provide more details? I wonder if it's a rumor or an impression rather than a fact.

What time period are we talking about when all this went on?

I guess the actual attempt at the pay off would have been around 50-60 years ago. Like I said, my dad really doesnt like to talk about it much. My grandma REFUSES to mention it. My Aunt is a little more open and may say something (she is the one that told me most of the little I do know about him) From what I can gather, the Masons around here sounded pretty shady...maybe things have changed since then?

Originally posted by goldbomb444
From what I can gather, the Masons around here sounded pretty shady...maybe things have changed since then?

Any group is only as good as its members. Likewise, the nature of any lodge is at best a reflection of the city/town/community from which it draws those members.

Also worth mentioning that because most people don't know what Masons are doing behind closed doors, they often jump to wrong conclusions, often mistaking secrecy with evil or nefarious doings.

So by any accounts... its possible there were shady dealings in that time in that place with that group of men, or its equally possible that non-Masons believed that there were shady dealings going on with that group of men because they didn't know otherwise. Either is possible.

Assuming there is nothing strange about the Masons, than it is no diffrent than working at Mcdonalds and than having them pay someone off to leave town. I am forced to belive it has something to do with having a child...

I don't think McDonald's would want to pay somebody to move either.

It would be interesting to find out the whole story...

A few more thoughts...

Originally posted by goldbomb444
1. My family name is no longer revered like it was only 30 some years ago. (I have no idea what happend, but things changed after the accident.)
2. We no longer have the money we once did.

I'm reminded of current copyright law... In the US, under current law, anything created, written, painted, whatever in a fixed medium is automatically copyrighted by the author/creator for the duration of his life + 70 years. That 70 year extension always seemed excessive to me. I'm all for preserving the creative rights of creators, but passing those rights to heirs who may never have to lift a finger to contribute back to society seems wrong.

Likewise, your grandfather may have been a well loved & respected man. He probably worked hard to provide for his family, and did the best for them that he could. But when he died, you shouldn't expect the same reverence for those he left behind. They're not him, to put it bluntly. He found a way to gain influence and wealth for his family, but if nobody carries on in his absence, I'd expect both to dry up rather quickly after his passing. No conspiracy, just the nature of things.

I too am a free mason, and find it worrisome that there are still people out there that think we are a secret society. The only things that are secret are those signs and passwords that we use as modes of reconizing one another. However, even those are published on the internet I've seen them many times.

Being a mason has nothing to do with the amount of money you have. Being a mason is about what is in your heart and how you act to your fellow man. My father is a high-level officer in my state's Grand Lodge. I made twice as much money as he did last year, yet they still welcome him to Lodge meetings, and he is attempting to become the state's Grand Junior Warden, a precursor to becoming Grand Master.

I have only been a Master Mason for 5 months now, but as I've told many brothers I've felt like I've been one my hold life because of how my father raised me. Now on ocassion I will have the pleasure to sit in lodge with some wealthy individuals. I've sat in lodge with Senators, Representatives, Governors, and very wealthy business owners. However, they all treat me with the same respect and reverance as they would with any brother, and those that don't aren't true masons at heart.

My father has a saying that I've heard many times since my raising, "There are true Masons, and there are card carrying Masons. Which one do you want to be?"

If the lodges of the world were made up of True Masons, there would be no negative comments to be made about Freemasonary, it's those men that join but don't live the values and morals that it teaches you that gives Freemasonary a bad image in the world today.

Interesting. I'm not sure what happened with your grandfather, but it is defintely something I would look into if I were you.

i can tell your grandad was a well tried and travelled man, he met people on the level and acted upon the square in all of his dealings. the 32* is just an extension of the blue lodge. FACT: the highest degree in masonry is the third degree that of the master mason. in the old days a mason had to be a 32* scottish rite mason or knight templar to be a shriner. but since i 2006 the onlt requirment to be a shriner is to be a master mason in good standing with ones lodge.

you have to pay money to attain a higher degree the higher the degree the more you have to pay so i seriously doubt a poor college student would be a 32nd degree unless he had a wealthy benefactor most likely his father who would also be at least 32nd degree ;-) 32nd degree im sure your talking 10s of thousands you have to pay.

To the anon, not sure of the exact amount, but it's not tens of thousands to receive the 32nd degree. Generally speaking, the number of 32nd degrees on here attests to that.