HELL

I believe there is no divine entity of any sort. The word hell was and ancient (egyptian or greek?) word that was used in reference to a pit that they burned bodies in. This is probably the source of the burning abyss(sp?) that so many people conjure up when they hear the word. Therefore without ultimate evil, ultimate good could not possibly exist.

The world needs balance.

Slight digresion, exactly how bad could hell be exactly? People have gone through unspeakle tortures and torments for decades. Could hell be any worse than what these peole have suffered on earth ?

PS. I don't believe in heaven or hell or god for that matter.

What I mean is that hell never existed. People then would say "He will die and go to hell". Well they meant it literally. They would burn in hell, a hole in the ground. But they would not burn for eternity.

So hell was on Earth.

It does exist.

JH, you who have never been out of the realm of relaaity can say this with
such confidence?

I had a freind who died at the age of 15, he died instantly of a heart attack, so all that time about two years later
i used to think he was around me and roaming the earth, he told me all his life that he did not believe in God. So about a year after
becoming christian a had this dream of visiting him in hell, aaliteral place of darkiness.

he hated it to death and asked me over and over "how can i get out of here", the feeling in thre was so real aand dark
it scared me to death as well, i simply replied to him, "remember when on earth when you said you don't believe in god"

he looked at me with shame on hi face and said "yes i remember"

i woke up and fealt scared to death about that place for about the next two days.

It was one of the most horrid dreams ive witnessed.



peace.

I doubt there is a heaven or hell, one would be eternally boring, the other eternally awful. There may however be states of mind or consciousness that help to create our initial post mortem existence and shape it's landscape. These are not fixed eternally but progressive and forward moving as we continue to experience and evolve spiritually.

There is a God, Heaven, and Hell. People who are evil are damned to torment in Hell. Heaven is bliss. You are in paradise for eterinty.

And you didn't try to get your friend out of hell, Truth????

That's a serious and somewhat shocked question, actually. Wiccan practices do teach ministering to lost and tortured souls and the Catholics I know do believe in having masses said for the soul (I've paid to have masses said for dead friends.) That's one thing I've always liked about the Catholic religion; the teachings of hope even after death.

...not enough to BELIEVE in the religion or convert, but it's one of many things I've admired about the religion.

Um truth, i have never heard of heart attacks at that age, nor of insant death from them at any age, what were the circumstances of his death to cause heart attack at that age.

XAOS

Well he was born with a heart problem all his life.

one year he went in for surgery for his heart, the surgery went well, afterwards
he was let out of the hospital and he went home. About a week later he was in his room when
he just stopped breathing, they found out later that they let him out of the hospital too early.

man i get shakey talking about this.

about three years later i had this scary dream i still cannot forget about hell.

I hope to god hes not there, but the place was so real.


The only thin i know is that he did not believe in a god, and can only pray hes in heaven.

peace.

Here's a site that traces through the scritures to define the origins of Hell, how it came to be and what is expected of it...And how the concept of it has changed with "popular misconceptions" over time.

Also, take note that I've resourced the information there & I've confirmed that it sticks quite strictly to scriptures, the known histories of religion & the social engineering that takes place even in modern times.

what-the-hell-is-hell.com...

P.S. Be sure to have your volume turned up at a reasonable level to hear the audio clip that loads as the homepage first comes up...


[Edited on 9-1-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

Well, keep thinking im joking.

Look md, this is no joke, nor ever will be, those truly will not believe until
they have suffered eternal seperation from him after death.

St john bosco had aa vividly horrible dream of hell in his writings.

that dream i talk about i had was so dreadful ill never forget it.


Now was hell created by the NT?

No it was not, infact we have mention to it in the OT.

Isaiah 14:9

"" Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirith up the
dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth, it hath raised up from their thorns all the
kings of the nations ""


14:15 Isaiah

"" Yet thou shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit ""


This was way before the catholic church even existed.


This place is real, i have witnessed it in a dream how bad it feels, but feel free to think what
you will on this issue.


peace.

sorry about your friend truth.

also, perhaps hell depends on what the person believed would happen when they die. Or its based on the collective unconcious belief of the human race.

A millenia they believed hell was different, so they went there. Now we have our belief of hell.


XAOS

Originally posted by Truth

It does exist.

a year after becoming christian a had this dream of visiting him in hell

That was just you stupid dream for #s sake!
That is your proof of heaven god and all this other # existing?

he hated it to death and asked me over and over "how can i get out of here", the feeling in thre was so real aand dark
it scared me to death as well, i simply replied to him, "remember when on earth when you said you don't believe in god"

he looked at me with shame on hi face and said "yes i remember"

This means only one thing truth. You are so OVER FECKING OBBSESSED WITH RELIGION that your braine can not cope with it very well and has to unload all the # when you sleep.

If truth believes that his friend exists somewhere then he is happy, if his friend may be able to be saved from eternal torment then he is even happier why interfere with his happiness just because you are unhappy with yourself. What he believes is real to him, what does it matter to you?

XAOS

Originally posted by Papa Karlo
This means only one thing truth. You are so OVER FECKING OBBSESSED WITH RELIGION that your braine can not cope with it very well and has to unload all the # when you sleep.

Well at least we know Karlo is willing to talk things out in a friendly manner and definitely does not have a stick up his ass


I believe hell exists. Just because it was a put where people were burned a long time ago does not mean that there is no place where people will be eternally punished. People probably just thought that fire is the worst torture possible, and since people were burned in this pit called hell, they applied the name to where people get burned for eternity, so they believed. "Eternal hell"= eternal burning = eternal punishment for sins.

Well, truth, you also said god talks to you. After that, how can we believe you? Sure, you may have dreamed of that, but I also dreamed of me being spider man, doesn't make it true. Duh!

Truth-Sorry I didn't get back on this thread. Really interesting discussion.

Anyway, how can you prove that like-James the Lesser said- it wasn't just a dream? Can you really interpret somthing your unconcious mind makes up as a...well, truth(to be ironic). You may have been suffering and greif-stricken and had nightmares about your friend dying and going to hell, because you were afraid for him. You were afraid for him because he didn't believe in god.

Just because one does not believe in god, does not automatically qualify them for "hell". They could still be a good person and go to "heaven", couldn't they? Why would some divine being, so forgiving and all wise, sentence somone to hell for not believing he exists? Even if they were still a good person.

That is why my mind cannot grasp the idea of a god, hell or heaven. They make no sense. Why would "god" want you or any of us to serve him? What good does it do him? That makes life all the less purposeful. I'd like to think life has a purpose, and we are supposed to, say discover the secrets of the universe, or somthing to that effect. Not just serve some unknown divine being because people say he exists.

Think about it....

Let's say you are God, you created me and everything that exists. I see everything that exists and myself. Then I turn my back and say..God (you) doesn't exist..
wouldn't you be a little pissed off? Would you say.."Sure come on into heaven because it's what you want when you didn't do a thing I wanted you to do!" with a big smile on your face. If you deny your maker I think your maker is gonna be pretty pissed about it.

God isn't as merciful as people today think..

Whether his dream was real or not is a moot point. It's a matter of opinion. He believes it was really hell and that's what he'll believe. If it will stear him in the right direction to do good in the world, then what the hell! (get it? lame joke)

Maybe I'm an incurable optimist, but I choose to see God as slightly less... petty than that. I feel a being with such scope, power and perspective might be able to understand the concept of doubts and confusion. Jesus was fairly tolerant of Doubting Thomas, after all.

And if God says, sod you, you don't worship me and I'll send you to Hell to burn?

I will not be *threatened* into worship. I do not offer love and reverence in response to *ultimatums*. You should follow a religion because you believe in it with all your heart and you know it is right. Not because you're afraid of punishment. I have nothing but scorn for a deity who say "Worship me or suffer eternal torment." I wouldn't put up with it from a human, and I'm damned if I'm lowering my standards for a deity. I expect God to behave better than humans, damn it. Fortunately, I see God as genuinely loving and forgiving, not a petty tyrant.

Thats because most just dont understand god. if you do not believe in him he
has (no) choice but to seperate you from him for eternity..

would you let a robber in heaven?

yet if you did wouldnt heaven become just like earth?

which is hell?


Those who choose not to believe cannot spend eternity with him because we are to prideful and think we
created ou selves and are evil deeds consist in us because of this.


god never says " you dont worship me you burn in hell "

he simply lets you decide and after death if you choose not to believe you (choose) (seperation from eternity.

is god supposed to say..

You did not believe in me and laughed and mocked those who did, come on in to my kingdom?

Those who dont understand god are always those who attack him.

peace.