Regardless who wins, the US will collapse

The bigger it is, the harder it falls.

We all know this proverb. It perfectly reflects the USA, having spent 50+ years growing extremely rapidly on the back of the entire world. Cheap petrol and dollar position.

The govt through those years of prosperity and growth knew that it is not something that would last forever- eventually petrol will rise and run out and the dollar will weaken . they took this opportunity to create a wonderful military. Who can compete when the mighty dollar (printed paper) can buy anything around the world? specially petrol and scientists?

Now as the world loses confidence in the dollar and petrol prices are skyrocketing, we are witnessing the fall of an empire. Neither candidates will be able to change that. the economy is suffering and it is a normal thing, infinite exponential growth is impossible.

I am not saying the US will be reduced to 3rd world status but it will certainly become a less prosperous, more quiet on the world stage and its aspirations of global domination and interference will disappear.
Other countries will suffer of course, being so reliant on the US economy, but much less. It is like falling from the 1st floor and the US from the 10th. In the end the disparities will disappear. China too will suffer a lot and may not become the superpower it wants to be.

The only one that may come out as a big winner is Russia. Having its economy relatively protected by what goes on in the west, immense quantities of natural resources and a strong military they have built within their means. But I do not fear Russia, they may learn from the imperalistic mistakes Rome and the US made and use their wealth for the good of us all.


Maybe then we will see the birth of democracy in the US.
And hopefully Peace in the world.

Originally posted by TheOracle
But I do not fear Russia, they may learn from the imperalistic mistakes Rome and the US made and use their wealth for the good of us all.

Hi TheOracle, I wonder, do you really have the impression that the current leaders of Russia use that wealth on the moment for the good of all Russians?
I ask you this because if they don’t use that wealth for the good of all Russians now, how do you expect then that they will use their wealth for the good of us all.

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by TheOracle
But I do not fear Russia, they may learn from the imperalistic mistakes Rome and the US made and use their wealth for the good of us all.

Hi TheOracle, I wonder, do you really have the impression that the current leaders of Russia use that wealth on the moment for the good of all Russians?
I ask you this because if they don’t use that wealth for the good of all Russians now, how do you expect then that they will use their wealth for the good of us all.

Because on the current model , the USAs wealth is distributed to the rich. After all goes south they understand that the country has been effectively robbed by corporates and will reverse such moves in Russia. It actually already started with the "nationalisation" of oil companies and other sectors. I have this feeling that America only cares about money. Corporates decides elections, people do not want social programs and plainly refuse to help their own brothers and sisters with taxes. The russians have a more pronounced sense of pride of the motherland and fellow russians.

Originally posted by TheOracle
Because on the current model , the USAs wealth is distributed to the rich.

I am a Dutchman you know, so I am not really authorized to judge about things that happens in the USA or another country, but I have a right to speak of my thoughts and those thoughts says that I think that what you said here is true.
But doesn’t that count also for all countries?

Originally posted by TheOracle
I have this feeling that America only cares about money.

That doesn’t absolute count for the American people as a whole in my opinion, but there is sorely a certain group within America that only cares about money just as it also is in any other country.

Originally posted by TheOracle
The russians have a more pronounced sense of pride of the motherland and fellow russians.

That counts for the American people to, no doubt about that.


[edit on 28/7/08 by spacevisitor]

America started the decline in 1913 when Wilson and the congress took us off the gold standard.The judicial branch failed to stop this as they should have.
With the federal reserve bank being able to print money with nothing to back it we became doomed as a nation.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

Now they are printing like mad in order to destroy the dollar.When the dollar fails our corporate government will jump in to save us with the amero.
All you'll have to do to get saved is join the north american union and let them shred the constitution.If you don't think the sheep will give away all thier freedoms you need to look at what thier doing right now.Bush,a right wing republican commits crimes and Pelosi a left wing democrat protects him.Bush wants fisa passed so he can spy on the people and pelosi rams it through the house.There is no longer a right or left,dem or repub.The only party we have today is the corporate band wagon party.Most americans are
willing to think Obama is going to save them or McCain is going to get us back on track.Most americans still haven't figured out that they can't make $1000 a week and spend $2000 a day.Even those that have figured it out think the government can do it.The majority of americans are to busy watching american idol to be bothered with thinking about anything more than where to get the money to buy that new chinese tv set.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

The collapse of the USA is far out of sight. Every great empire comes to an end, but America is quite young and has yet to squeeze out the best it has. We may have some tough times ahead of us, but we always come back stronger.

The MSM has people convinced we are doing extremely horrible, the true story is otherwise.

Greetings Oracle.

I think the global economy is on the cusp of meltdown. I think the US economy will suffer, is likely to hit ITSELF hard, and as before, will recover. U.S. itself? I don't think it will ever collapse. The U.S. has several, SEVERAL problems, some shared by other countries, some unique to itself. Not posing the following toward you: I think there are several people worldwide that drool at the thought of the U.S. in absolute turmoil and dispair. I don't believe I'll ever live to see it. Perhaps the family cohesive unit has been rent somewhat in the past years, perhaps the global view of America has been politicized into a nation that is agressive, rather than protective. Perhaps the United States future administrations will say to hell with the rest of the world and take care of their own, I don't know. I don't think many people realize how integral the U.S. in their own national economies. I don't guess that matters much now.

I believe there is a spirit, a sense of adventure and fortitude that is sleeping, but not lost. I guess we will see.

Good thread.


Cheers

I agree with the Oracle to a certain extent
I however also believe that the U.S.A. is not going to fall into third world status I believe that North Americans will rise to the power never before seen on earth

that power will be derived from Canada under the N.A.U.

the collapse of the United States of America is eminent but a North American peoples will rise out of the ashes

the deal is signed the deed is already done
2010 will see the dawning of the North American Union
before this election or just afterwards the economy of the United States of America will implode

the opposition to the North American Union will be reduced by the fears of the Americans those that persist will be rounded up and locked away

There can be no New world order until the United States of America is imploded.

The corporations are doing quite well in the USA. And they are international, not at all tied to the Anchor hung around the necks of the American public.

The Federal Government will not fail. In some ways I wish they would. They will simply fail the people. They will maintain and increase their stranglehold. No good will come of this. None.

The corporations are doing quite well in the USA. And they are international, not at all tied to the Anchor hung around the necks of the American public.

The Federal Government will not fail. In some ways I wish they would. They will simply fail the people. They will maintain and increase their stranglehold. No good will come of this. None.

So, you claim the US will collapse but you don't think it will be as bad as a third world nation? Isn't a collapse worse than a third world nation? I mean, at least those countries have some semblance of government. If ours was to collapse, i.e. no more United States, i'd think anarchy would be worse than the third world.

IF the US were to collapse, i agree that it wouldn't be influenced by the 2008 election. Great Empires, and that's what the USA is, decline over very long periods of time. The collapse would be more like a long drawn out sigh. So i could see the USA no longer being composed of all 50 states by the time of my death in approximately 50 years time. But not before that.

To another poster, how could the USA's decline have begun in 1913 when we've made the vast majority of advancements SINCE then? The United States has been one of the leading scientific nations, the wealthiest nation, the freest nation, the land of most opportunity, etc. How is that a decline? I agree that things have been on the decline over the past 8 years but certainly not since 1913.

And let's be honest, nobody really started talking about how horrible things were going since GWB took office. Clinton was reaching out to Russia and China, getting blow jobs in the oval office, the economy was making money. Bush I was a one-term president who showed Hussein what-for, but didn't have any intention of liberating anyone. We were in a little baby recession and still living high off Reagan and his "tear down that wall!" speech we've been hearing so much about, thanks to Obama in Berlin.

Every sovereign nation has experienced ups and downs and even though i'm concerned about the major issues we are facing right now, i don't think they're enough to collapse the country.

America's time in the forefront may be drawing to a close, and that's okay with me. It's not our world to lead or to destroy. Maybe it's Russia's turn to really drive the bus for awhile and if that's the case, i'll be concerned. But not afraid. Why be afraid?

I don't quite know how to tell you this, fellow citizens... but AMERICA IS NOT YOU! Stop identifying with it like it birthed you and gave you your wildest dreams come true. This is brainwashed zombie madness and it has got to stop. We are the same as They and Them and Those and The Other. We're all PEOPLE, and the only borders, flags, segregations, labels, and biases towards this group or that group or whatever exist as ideas PLANTED in your mind. You were not born with America burning in your heart. You were indoctrinated. You were manipulated. You were wiped of one self and given another. Take your true identity back, take it away from the shallow choices given to you by the Corporate Machine to keep its precious power supply in place!

Destroy the system! Power to the People...the People.... THE PEOPLE!!!

Annnnnd how ya doing, homegrown terrorism watchdogs? Getting ready for some Wranglin'!? Yeehaw, just like the old West, huh?

Peace.... and I mean peace, because war will not destroy a system that thrives off war.

Amen, Oracle. As much as we don't know it and are disgusted by the thought, we need this.