The Questions U.F.O. skeptics can't answer

Originally posted by NoRunRichard
Wrong. Skeptics repress in their minds the fact that extraterrestrials exist and are visiting Earth.

Ummmm .. and you know this how? Can you read minds? If not, then please don't presume to tell people what they are thinking or what they are doing with their minds. That is most certainly outside your sphere of knowledge.

Besides which, in order to repress such knowledge .. which would be like repressing a memory, since that is basically what all knowledge in a person's mind is - facts and events they remember - they would first have to HAVE that memory or knowledge. And I'm sure they will quickly inform you that they do not have, and never have had, any knowledge of the reality of aliens visiting Earth.

Look guys .. in case you'd forgotten, I'm not even a skeptic. I've seen a UFO, I know they are real; the only difference between me and some believers is that I'm not 100% convinced that what I saw was an alien craft. I don't know what it was, I'm quite willing to believe that it was an alien craft, but I don't KNOW that it was.

But here I am, more believer than skeptic, and yet I can clearly see the skeptics' point of view - there is not sufficient evidence to PROVE that aliens are visiting Earth.
We have no specimen, dead or alive, no ship, no DNA, nothing at all physical that can be examined.

I'll say this one more time: In order for science (and then universities and schools, and then the public) to accept the existence of any physical creature or machine, such as an alien or an alien spacecraft, science has to HAVE one that they can look at, examine, test, and analyze. It's true for woodpeckers, giant squids, Bigfoot, etc. etc. etc. WHY should it be any different for aliens? WHY should the standard of proof for the hypothesis "aliens are visiting Earth" be any less than it is for anything else?

(edit to fix quote)


[edit on 25-8-2008 by Heike]

Uh oh! A couple of skeptics about to gang up on one little believer. Oh boy, I can see them salivating over victory already. Please Norun, don’t stress yourself too much.

Just remember that Mankind is deeply primitive, a conqueror in nature. Mankind would rather wait and see how it can conquer the universe instead of understanding and accepting it, even with the risk of ruining everything. See how the most fervent skeptics gleefully vent the human scientific prowess but become enraged at the thought of more advanced extraterrestrial lives? It’s not about kneeling to Ets, just a matter of cohabitation.
Even if you don’t believe in aliens, there’s something going on with the Ufo/Et phenomenon that needs serious investigation until complete disclosure. If Ets don’t exist, some very lucky and peculiar earthlings are trying to pose as like, propelling themselves on their “space” thrones above the masses(aware of all the theories already). We’re still going to have to face that.

For a fraction of a species of some little planet that is a spec of sand in the desert trying to cover up the infinite space and all its probabilities, there must be something extremely DIABOLIC about that species that could measure up to this infinite universe.

I just popped into the thread again and found your following comment
interesting Savior.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Government cover-up theories aside, there has never been an alien body or crashed saucer presented to the public.

You mean that there has never been an alien body presented to the public by the government? Because an alien has been presented to the public some 12 years ago, and even one that was alive for that matter.

Now comes the part I could never understand. When a wistleblower comes forward the demand for proof starts immediately, which is obviously the right thing to do. But in the rare case like I mentioned above the wistleblower has proof in the form of video. Then the proof gets attacked viciously and the video is dubbed "hoax" by the majority of skeptics, with a weak explanation why it is a hoax. Then they just ignore the case.

So you do not know how any skeptic would react presented with such information.

Well in the case I mentioned above the skeptics indeed reacted: They claimed hoax and then ignored the case. So with this in mind one can come to the conclusion that an alien on video is not good enough, so what is good enough then?



[edit on 26/8/08 by Fastwalker81]

reply to post by Fastwalker81


What video?

Originally posted by rawsom
What video?

Most people already know about the video because it has been discussed many times on ATS. I'm talking about the Alien Interview Video.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you haven't seen it yet I suggest you watch the whole documentary on youtube. There is also an additional radio interview with the wistleblower who released the video to the public. Here is the link to the additional radio interview. The actual interview starts around the 35 minute mark.

Radio Interview

The alien interview has never been proven a hoax and after all these years nobody has come forward to claim responsibility for the video.

Highly interesting if you ask me.



[edit on 26/8/08 by Fastwalker81]

reply to post by Fastwalker81


Hmm, I'm not sure if I want to start a debate about this but there are certain curiosities in that video.

Why is it that there are clearly hours:minutes:seconds:splitseconds (1/100 seconds) but those splitseconds only go from 00 to 29 and then start all over again. What is this kind of measurement system?

Why do those medics have a t-shirt with hair on their hands clearly showing up, if it is supposed to protect this alien from microbes? Professional people in a biologically restricted area, wearing t-shirts?

What I have found out is that when people do hoaxes, they tend to leave clues for people. This only applies to excellent hoaxes, amateurs have no such sense of pride.

is this the video we are talking about?

Apparently, they are selling special editions and all kinds of other stuff. It also now has a copyright(c) and has been turned into a money-making-machine.


[edit on 26/8/08 by rawsom]

Originally posted by NoRunRichard

Wrong.

I really like the way you started your reply, i believe it sums up your entire post.

Skeptics repress in their minds the fact that extraterrestrials exist and are visiting Earth. Therefore their knowledge about extraterrestrials are not as up-to-date as that of believers

Thanks Dr NoRunRichard Freud. Its funny that you mention repression and memories, as the vast majority of Alien Abduction experiences are derived from repressed memories and are highly questionable, if not intinsically flawed. But dont blame me for this assessmnet, ask D.M Jacobs at the Internation Centre for Abduction Research

A Personal Note:

I try to stay as close to the evidence as I can. However, there is no possibility that I have avoided error. The majority of evidence for the alien abduction phenomenon is from human memory derived from hypnosis administered by amateurs. It is difficult to imagine a weaker form of evidence. Still, readers must be skeptical of what I say and of what all others say in this tangled arena of alien abductions, hypnosis, popular culture, and memory. Abduction researchers are mainly amateurs doing their best to get to the truth knowing that objective reality may elude them.

ICAR
I really love the quote "that objective reality may elude them". I am sure you can relate to that, and this evidence, or lack thereof.

a lot of things are missing in their knowledge of extraterrestrials, they consider these things frivolous.

Yes, what is lacking is infact knowledge, as the evidence believers accept is not knowledge of anything that defines it as being true and so accepted into the general consciousness as knowledge. Assumptions, hypotheticals, faith based assertions and aggressive denials of any constructive alternative explanations, is also not knowledge, but you do seem to have alot of that BTW. As for frivolous, how is this: The Roper Report.
This is the basis estimates saying that abductions are in the Millions. In fact these estimates come from this system of deduction, Hopkins, Jacobs and Westrum interviewed 6000 people, they found 119 people who answered in a way the Hopkins, Jacobs and Westrum interpreted as being supportive of an ET/abduction experience. Read that again. That is right, the 119 people did not directly claim to have had an experience, from the answers they gave, Hopkins et al interpreted as such, that they did experience an abduction. They then went on to estimate that millions of Americans had in fact been abducted by aliens from these 119 interpretations. Its studies like these that are grasped as real evidence by believers. This is just one example of evidence(the claim that millions of people experience abductions) that is consistently thrown about as a fact. When the fact is, it is an interpretation of answers that supported a hypothesis of alien abduction.

The same goes with their beliefs, they have no belief in extraterrestrial existence and visitation. If they say they do that's hypocrisy because they will argue for more proof.

Can you prove this. LOL.

You're inclined to believe my posts are getting funnier? Oh yes, that's right, you guys stand on your heads down under.

Yes I am inclined, and as you previously stated, sceptics argue for more proof, but in this case you have kindly supplied another riduculously funny post that supports my belief, thank you.

Sorry I don't agree to any rationalizations contrary to what I am saying in this post.

You have a great nack for stating the obvious.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Well, if only Einstein could see the infinite irony of said stupidity actually quoting him.

Originally posted by rawsom
Hmm, I'm not sure if I want to start a debate about this but there are certain curiosities in that video.

Yeah I kinda agree so I'll try to answer your questions and we can leave it at that.

Why is it that there are clearly hours:minutes:seconds:splitseconds (1/100 seconds) but those splitseconds only go from 00 to 29 and then start all over again. What is this kind of measurement system?
I think you are talking about the frames here. I cannot watch the video from work so I'm not 100% sure.

Why do those medics have a t-shirt with hair on their hands clearly showing up, if it is supposed to protect this alien from microbes? Professional people in a biologically restricted area, wearing t-shirts?

The wistleblower states the bio containment area is kept at the lowest designation, so no bio suits are necessary. You can compare this to a operating room in the hospital. Furthermore the medics are suited up the same as a surgeon would be in a operating room. That should be more then sufficient given the nature of the room (sterile) and the standard procedures carried out by medical personel before entering a sterile room. Watch an operating documentary and you will know what I'm getting at.

Apparently, they are selling special editions and all kinds of other stuff. It also now has a copyright(c) and has been turned into a money-making-machine.

I was hoping we could leave the money making approach out of this. It adds nothing to determine the authentacy of the tape and is a known method employed by some skeptics to plant the seed of doubt.

Originally posted by atlasastro
I really like the way you started your reply, i believe it sums up your entire post.

It sums up just this particular post and it also sums up what what I think you are, a jester in a dunce cap You like funny things, then there you have it.

Thanks Dr NoRunRichard Freud. Its funny that you mention repression and memories, as the vast majority of Alien Abduction experiences are derived from repressed memories and are highly questionable, if not intinsically flawed. But dont blame me for this assessmnet, ask D.M Jacobs at the Internation Centre for Abduction Research

A Personal Note:

I try to stay as close to the evidence as I can. However, there is no possibility that I have avoided error. The majority of evidence for the alien abduction phenomenon is from human memory derived from hypnosis administered by amateurs....

Alright hypnosis is done mainly by amateurs but there are real professionals who are in this business. And out of this some are real abductions that cannot be denied. But in my opinion these same hypnotists, amateurs and professionals, are part of the coverup. Also they are not into publicly revealing their findings to avoid skeptic ridicule and threat from authorities. Abductees are being told to keep quiet. This is just an opinion but is plausible and highly likely the reasons and this is what I believe.

Yes, what is lacking is infact knowledge, as the evidence believers accept is not knowledge of anything that defines it as being true and so accepted into the general consciousness as knowledge. Assumptions, hypotheticals, faith based assertions and aggressive denials of any constructive alternative explanations, is also not knowledge, but you do seem to have alot of that BTW. As for frivolous, how is this: The Roper Report.
This is the basis estimates saying that abductions are in the Millions. In fact these estimates come from this system of deduction, Hopkins, Jacobs and Westrum interviewed 6000 people, they found 119 people who answered in a way the Hopkins, Jacobs and Westrum interpreted as being supportive of an ET/abduction experience.....

Yes 119 is representative of the total abductions, not in the millions. I am not one of the believers who believe in millions of abductions. But some abductions are real.

Can you prove this. LOL.

Like I said before the proof is in all the posts the skeptics entered in this thread. You can base your reasons in what they're saying here. An example is what thrashee said "I'm not the one clinging to a belief in here." The job of a skeptic is easy, just stick to the premise "You know that there is nothing out there that proves alien existence and visitation" and "Prove it scientifically" and you're safe. Just play within these bounds and you can counter anything a believer states.

Yes I am inclined, and as you previously stated, sceptics argue for more proof, but in this case you have kindly supplied another riduculously funny post that supports my belief, thank you.

What? Everything is funny to you, jester.

You have a great nack for stating the obvious.

You've got to believe that. You're a skeptic, ask yourself what turned this forum into a 1,300-post thread.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Well, if only Einstein could see the infinite irony of said stupidity actually quoting him.

You're insinuating for special treatment in here. I don't see you as any different from the skeptics in here.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

[edit on 26-8-2008 by NoRunRichard]

Originally posted by Heike

Originally posted by NoRunRichard
Wrong. Skeptics repress in their minds the fact that extraterrestrials exist and are visiting Earth.

Ummmm .. and you know this how? Can you read minds? If not, then please don't presume to tell people what they are thinking or what they are doing with their minds. That is most certainly outside your sphere of knowledge.

Uh, don't tell me what to say in here, Heike, you're trying to limit my sphere of knowledge and belief in this already 1,300-post forum. The motives are very obvious a long time ago.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Originally posted by NoRunRichard
Uh, don't tell me what to say in here, Heike, you're trying to limit my sphere of knowledge and belief in this already 1,300-post forum. The motives are very obvious a long time ago.

It's hard to limit a sphere of knowledge where none exists. Belief and knowledge occupy different spheres.

Furthermore, how exactly does one go about limiting another's sphere of knowledge? Do they strap them to a chair, hook them up to the Memory-Washer, and start erasing knowledge?

I think you are affording us an unlikely amount of control over your own mind, which I'm quite sure you would agree is strong enough to handle opposing views without itself being contaminated or damaged.

Right?

reply to post by polomontana
What you say is logical and true. The problem I am having is that from the beginning we all have been led to think extra-terrestrial (meaning outer space and/or from another world). Just because we first saw the crafts in the air, we assume the crafts must be from some where else (meaning outer space and/or from another world). Why? Human nature I suppose.

Let us all get out of that box and consider every thing logically.

Do or do we not have excellent radar capabilities?
Can we or can we not with radar, see from so many feet above the earth to miles and miles above the earth?
Do we or do we not have the ability to monitor the outer space around us?
Would we or would we not see anything approaching us from the outer space?
Are we or are we not constantly watching the sky?
Let us all get out of that box and consider every thing logically.

Is or is not the progress of civilizations hampered by negative social issues?
Are we or are we not less advanced as a civilization because of negative social issues?
Should we or should we not be far more advanced as a civilization?
Do we or do we not advance further with everyone working toward a common end?

Are there extra-terrestrial (meaning outer space and/or from another world)? Yes.
Are there extra-terrestrial (meaning outer space and/or from another world) that would visit Earth? No.

Let us all get out of that box and consider every thing logically.

Could there or could there not be another civilization (mono-minded, mono-linguistic) in our mist or beneath our feet or from the inner space?

Originally posted by Nayam
reply to post by polomontana
I hope you are not expecting montana to answer you, he has not posted on ATS since 8/22/08.

As far as one of your observations/comments

Are there extra-terrestrial (meaning outer space and/or from another world) that would visit Earth? No.

This is not exactly accurate. While there is no hard "slap me with an alien" proof, it t=does not mean that it could not happen. The odds of an alien species picking out our litttle plannet out of all of the other planets is not good, I don't want to play roulette at that table. So you see thou it is possible it is not probable, which is a slight difference.

If Life exists elsewhere and one believes they cannot travel here thats based on your limitations of Galactic Travel here on this Planet.
Debunkers and Skeptics who truly feel not a single being can travel to Earth because they are like us unable to travel through Dimensions and Universe/s beyond ones Human understanding.

Lets be honest just because Nasa at leat Publically cannot travel to another Dimension and Solar System within a flash of an eye does not mean that their are not people more spiritually and technically advanced.

I believe both exist and they are coming to Earth now and in our Ancient past .

I think its easier to believe they cannot get to Earth for one reason.

Because to think they can and are would shake the foundations of Science and Humanity for good.

Understand we are not only not alone in this Universe but their are people on other Planets etc that have eons ago figured out how to do what we have yet to do.

Its like one saying we are the Center of The Universe when in fact we are a little pie.

Originally posted by Cmdraleon

Its like one saying we are the Center of The Universe when in fact we are a little pie.

I'll accept that civilizations with technologies advanced far beyond our own might be able to zip around the galaxy at will.

Why would they want to sample our little piece of pie? Surely there are more interesting and rewarding endeavors.

[edit on 17-9-2008 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
Why would they want to sample our little piece of pie? Surely there are more interesting and rewarding endeavors.

Well there could be dozens of reasons why they would want to come here. Why do we humans study animals? I for one would find it highly interesting if I was allowed to study some off world species and how they develop as a race in comparison to my own. If ET's exist and come here they could even learn things from us, even if they were much more advanced. Some people even believe we infact are the ET's, and thus didn't originate on this planet ourselves. If we have been brought here or were infact created/engineered by ET's then they would have every reason to come here. Or maybe they need something from us or from our planet like dna samples or raw materials.

Of course my above comments are pure speculation but when you think about it there could be many different reason why an ET race would want to come here in my opinion.

Would you go and have a look if you were asked to travel to another world where ET civilizations have developed? I certainly would.

reply to post by Fastwalker81
I pop in this thread every now and then and laugh. I can not believe you actually believe that to be authentic footage... The alien is an obvious puppet. Here is a video of a self proclaimed fake to show that it can be done...almost as good
www.youtube.com...

and the other puppet

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by riggs2099
I pop in this thread every now and then and laugh. I can not believe you actually believe that to be authentic footage...

The alien is an obvious puppet. Here is a video of a self proclaimed fake to show that it can be done...almost as good

Hi Riggs how are you? Didn't see you around here for some time.

I never said I thought the footage was authentic. I do think there is a possibility that it is authentic.

I hope you don't consider the Youtube video you posted a good comparison. But I found it useful to compare for another reason. And you know, all the copycat video does is show the actual footage is hard to duplicate, especially by an amateur.

Care to enlighten me why you think the alien is a puppet by the way? Are you a puppeteer? Do you have an idea what such a puppet would cost to create? If you have evidence that the alien is a puppet please share it because the comparison you provided is entertainable at best.


[edit on 18/9/08 by Fastwalker81]

Originally posted by Fastwalker81

Well there could be dozens of reasons why they would want to come here. Why do we humans study animals? I for one would find it highly interesting if I was allowed to study some off world species and how they develop as a race in comparison to my own. If ET's exist and come here they could even learn things from us, even if they were much more advanced. Some people even believe we infact are the ET's, and thus didn't originate on this planet ourselves. If we have been brought here or were infact created/engineered by ET's then they would have every reason to come here. Or maybe they need something from us or from our planet like dna samples or raw materials.

Of course my above comments are pure speculation but when you think about it there could be many different reason why an ET race would want to come here in my opinion.

Would you go and have a look if you were asked to travel to another world where ET civilizations have developed? I certainly would.

That was a good post Fastwalker. And in my opinion the ET's are here to closely observe us, to understand what makes us tick with our kind of technology and to understand why we are different from them, to explain this further, why living things on this planet may be different from theirs and in order to know if we have the potential to be at their level of existence in the future. I am one of the believers who believe that the Mongoloid and the Caucasian peoples are a hybrid of the "gods" from other planets, that the gods in our bibles and religions are in fact extraterrestrials, just like you stated Fastwalker. Thanks.