Where is the F-23 (PAV-1@Dayton PAV-2@Northrop?)

a reply to: nwtrucker

I do indeed, since it's more likely that the '23 would have gotten off the first shot due to it's lower RCS. In WVR, you need only look at how F-5's regularly wax F-15-16-18's in WVR. You use the strengths of your machine against your opponents weaknesses and try to minimize their strengths against your weaknesses. I'd say a '23 driver would make judicious use of the vertical in a WVR fight, especially if it was a F-120 powered model..I guerss we can agree to disagree

a reply to: nwtrucker

TV has its uses, but even vs 4.5 gen like the Typhoon it is limited use if the F22 doesn't get the shot off. You bleed a lot of speed since you are diverting thrust from forward propulsion to attitude propulsion. At low speeds it can be an advantage but then you are a sitting duck while you try to accelerate again.

I used F22 vs F23 because the YF has not flown head to head with other aircraft. The YF22 has larger control surfaces and instantaneous pitch rate was similar, instantaneous roll rate was slower by a bit.

a reply to: EBJet


I'd rebut they'd likely be compared with the same power plant. The reverse would likely be true if the 22 had the F-120 as well.


If my VERY limited understanding is correct, neither's missiles would be effective against each other-EW- which would almost assume a WVR event...Same power plants? I doubt any significant advantage in the vertical for either...back to TV being the edge....agree to agree to disagree....

originally posted by: Flipper35
a reply to: nwtrucker

TV has its uses, but even vs 4.5 gen like the Typhoon it is limited use if the F22 doesn't get the shot off. You bleed a lot of speed since you are diverting thrust from forward propulsion to attitude propulsion. At low speeds it can be an advantage but then you are a sitting duck while you try to accelerate again.

I used F22 vs F23 because the YF has not flown head to head with other aircraft. The YF22 has larger control surfaces and instantaneous pitch rate was similar, instantaneous roll rate was slower by a bit.

Understood. If using TV and bleeding that speed, you'd damn well better get that shot off. Even then, 1 V 2 there's the second plane to worry about. Complete tactics change?