Of course we are being watched, we are activists

Of course we are being watched, we are activists

I keep reading on ATS that certain people are being watched, of course we are being watched!
We are activists, militants the modern day Luddite wanting to smash to-day's all seeing all powerful government machine, in fact the whole planet is being watched.
Consider this, if Gary McKinnon can hack into the Pentagon with a cheap high street computer just think what the CIA and FBI are capable of doing with their billions of dollars, its more than likely every time you turn on your computer many of these agency's are alerted!
Google is big brother, pleas see link!



The population in the UK is 60 million, for every 17 people there is 1 surveillance camera and they are hellbent on adding more, their are so many camera's in the UK that you can be followed home from any given city centre.
Big brother is watching you, see link.



Can I ask you all a question?
How do we know ATS is not watching us?

With the introduction of Bio-metric software things are only going to get worse, if you don't have bio-metric software in the near future you probably won't be able to purchase food or goods, well, is that the introduction of Revelations mark of the beast?
And when the s###t hits the fan and they start rounding us all up, I ask you, will we be so brave then?

Greetings.

Gazbom.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by gazbom56]

The vid in the first link is - it would seem (and not surprisingly) - "no longer available."

But you are right. We are being spied upon. Big time.

So all these people who are claiming that they have suspicions of being spied upon are likely correct, despite the nay-sayers who keep coming along saying that "it's just real estate agents" or "maybe a disgruntled lover..."

I have strongly suspected that I am being watched. But, years ago, I had experiences that showed conclusively that I was. Why now, with my awareness and vocal presence on this site, I wouldn't be would make no sense.

As for bravery, I also decided years ago that life has no meaning if I go placidly along when things are wrong. It will likely get me killed, but better that than slavery.

Must I repeat myself again? You aren't that important. You honestly think that the government of this country cares what you do? Power does what power wants, and the power in question has about half a year left in office. If you were truly a threat, a cursory look back at those who were previously judged dangerous would tell you all you need to know about what would happen. J. Edgar Hoover would have crushed you like bugs, and the nation would have cheered him on for ridding the world of such obvious Communist sympathizers.
If the old COINTELPRO operation still existed, and it judged you to be a genuine threat to [insert vague diabolical agenda here], you would be dead. And not in some ridiculously circuitous way, like putting trace amounts of mercury in your coffee over the course of years or something. A random thug would walk up to you in a dark alley and shoot you. It might be a mugging gone wrong. It might be a thrill kill. If you're the sort of person who's know to be disreputable, it'll be self-defense--you jumped him with a broken bottle, babbling something about the Rothschilds, and who could blame the poor man for defending himself? All it would require was one agent and a phone call, and nobody would be the wiser.
Militants? Modern day Luddites? Give me a break. If you honestly believed half the crap you and you kind wallow in, you'd be shouting it on the streets and taking your proof to the courts--or maybe just fleeing to the hills. Did you know that if you have evidence of a crime, withholding it is in itself a crime? It is your duty as a citizen to report wrongdoing--and it was negligence on the behalf of the citizen that allowed the corruption in our government to reach this level. Do your part. If you have any knowledge that the rest of the world doesn't, if you have any faith at all that you are right, if there is anything to your claims beyond self-aggrandizing bull# and Matrix quotes... do your part. Don't just posture on the internet. Be seen. Be heard. Spread your truth. Maybe you might even convince me--heaven knows the world would be more interesting.

I don't doubt that there are ordinary citizens being watched. i highly doubt i am one of them. lol and if they are, then so what.. that doesn't change what i know to be right in my heart.

the owners could very well be part of some secret spy system for all i know , but even still, we have a place to come and talk about these things and as far as i see, you are still around.

the reason that all this surveillance by cameras and through the internet is going on is bc largely, the public doesn't really care......... it'll just get worse, yes. we know this. if this is a problem for anyone, either don't speak your mind or hey, just turn off the computer. what other answer is there at this point?

Originally posted by Makoto
Must I repeat myself again? You aren't that important.

Ahhh. Do please tell me how it is that you know this.

Do please explain how YOU know who is important and who isn't.

I roll my eyes.

EDIT to add: You say it's a crime to withhold evidence... Ok. So you see evidence that the people to whom you would make the report (the government) are about to kill millions, enslave the rest, and you do what? The average Joe doesn't see all the pieces out on the table. They don't believe the statements made by experts and witnesses because they cannot wrap their heads around the enormity.

So... Crime to not report it to the criminals...? Geez.

[edit on 7/25/2008 by Amaterasu]

You do realize that there has to be some limit on the size of your conspiracies, right? The notion that every single person in any position of power is a shill for some vast shadowy cabal is logistically impossible. There simply aren't that many complete and total bastards in this world--there are a lot of them, I'll grant you that, but nowhere near what you seem to think. Even taking other methods into account, consider how many people you're talking about; all the people who would need to be bribed or intimidated. It's literally impossible. Not impossible as in "This is too horrifying to believe;" far scarier things are basic tenets of my philosophy. Not impossible as in "This challenges my comfortable little sheep world;" if I were that fragile, I'd never have deconned.
When I say "impossible" here, I mean impossible as in "Anybody silly enough to propose this would be laughed out of the Illuminati."
I mean impossible as in "Even trying this would involve more resources than most countries possess vanishing into thin air."
I mean impossible as in, "If even one in a thousand people asked to play a role in this refused or had an attack of conscience after the fact, you would have to choose between a constantly growing pool of people with eyewitness accounts of the conspiracy, and a trail of bodies stretching across the centuries that even the most incompetent person, 'sheeple' or not, could follow to you."
I mean impossible as in, "With so many scumbags under one roof, it would be statistically impossible for the organization not to dissolve into infighting and backstabbing like every other such group has throughout history."

[edit on 26-7-2008 by Makoto]

Originally posted by Makoto
You do realize that there has to be some limit on the size of your conspiracies, right?

Oh, I'm sure there is. But I also am sure that the more radical, vocal, and - dare I say it - intelligent individuals are of high interest to those who would keep sheeple...sheeple.

And a site like this, which is growing by leaps and bounds, is a site *I* would keep an eye on, if *I* was of the sort who had plans to take over the world and the resources to do it with. *I* would also be scrutinizing specific members: those who spoke in ways that might wake up the ones I want kept asleep.

And given that there seem to be many who would do the bidding of their masters and keep their mouths shut (by being promised money, status, power, privilege, whatever), I doubt there are issues finding people who would do the watching without spilling beans to the point that denial won't work.

The notion that every single person in any position of power is a shill for some vast shadowy cabal is logistically impossible.

Logistically? Really? You would be amazed at what making someone feel like they are "special," "superior," in the "in crowd," part of the "real power," amidst the "excitement," will do to their behavior. Really not a difficult thing to do.

Add to that telling them lies - like "She's a communist," or "He's a terrorist," and even IF they have some modicum of morals, they may believe they are doing "the right thing."

This explains the police beating up and killing the Kent State students, for one example (I know that was a while ago, but there are a number of more recent examples of police turning on the citizens). The police are told lies, and then there are some who are more than happy for the excitement, and others who feel "superior..."

There simply aren't that many complete and total bastards in this world--there are a lot of them, I'll grant you that, but nowhere near what you seem to think.

Heh. One bastard can watch a lot of people. And many believe they are doing "the right thing." Many get off on feeling superior. Many are being paid so well they can't back out. Many got in and are fearful of their lives if they pull out, too.

Even taking other methods into account, consider how many people you're talking about; all the people who would need to be bribed or intimidated.

Or lied to, or mind-controlled, or paid well, or made to feel "above" the general populace, or "brought into the inner circle," or otherwise manipulated... Lots and lots, I would estimate.

It's literally impossible. ...

When I say "impossible" here, I mean impossible as in "Anybody silly enough to propose this would be laughed out of the Illuminati."

Heh. Um, sure. Given that *I* can see how easily this could be accomplished, I am sure any Illuminatus - or Nazi - could do me one better.

I mean impossible as in "Even trying this would involve more resources than most countries possess vanishing into thin air."

No it wouldn't. They have placed the gears in motion long ago, moving us into accepting destruction of the foundations of our country, accepting the police raid, believing that "Terrorists" are out there plotting against us in big ways, and making money in such quantities that even paying the thousands one would need to keep tabs on all of us is a drop in the bucket.

With Echelon and other such systems in place, really very few need to keep watch. With telecom companies in the pocket... Thousands are all one needs. And let's say it's 10,000 (I am certain that out of over 300 million, ten thousand bastards would be easy to find). And you pay each $250,000 a year. 2.5 billion. Um... And I doubt there are that many, and I doubt they are all being paid that much.

But 2.5 billion is nowhere NEAR "more resources than most countries possess."

I mean impossible as in, "If even one in a thousand people asked to play a role in this refused or had an attack of conscience after the fact, you would have to choose between a constantly growing pool of people with eyewitness accounts of the conspiracy, and a trail of bodies stretching across the centuries that even the most incompetent person, 'sheeple' or not, could follow to you."

LOL! You don't need one person for each one thousand. One person for each million would probably be enough. With the Echelon system, you could weed out most people. With warrantless tapping, you could listen when you want. You wouldn't be watching the people whose life is spent on the Pokemon sites. You wouldn't be watching the people whose interests are all about cooking. But you WOULD watch ATS.

One person could run searches daily for keywords, view the posts in question, and see who is bringing them up. Easy. And once a pattern of a given individual is established... Then the personal watch begins if deemed necessary.

I mean impossible as in, "With so many scumbags under one roof, it would be statistically impossible for the organization not to dissolve into infighting and backstabbing like every other such group has throughout history."

Hahahahaha! Now this is downright silly. Scumbags still respond to "fraternity." And they are often out in the field. And just because one is a scumbag does not mean one does not kiss tail end to get ahead, and bosses are unfond of those who fight with others in their organization.

Most sociopaths are fully capable of functioning in society, appearing normal, and can easily deal with business settings.

And like I said... Many will truly believe they are doing the right thing. They will be told, "That Makoto there? (S)he's a terrorist! We have information that proves it, so keep a close watch and report back on anything subversive or unusual."

[sigh] You have a very naive view, it would seem, but then, you're only 20ish - if your year of birth is correct, and that might explain it.

You still haven't explained how people are shut up. No matter how much you pay, threaten, or lie, it's inevitable that somebody will betray you, either because they have an overdeveloped hero complex or because they decide there's more profit in squealing to the world.
Let's say I'm a puppet president for the La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo. I'm a good little game piece, I do what I'm told, and they give me power and influence and worldly pleasures galore. I bide my time, wait until I know for certain who's pulling the strings if I can, and then during an international address, I expose them to the world without the slightest warning--and I don't mean JFKesque vague insinuations, I mean going up in front of the nation and turning a routine State of the Union speech into a public expose of all involved, by name if possible. The nation, if not the world, dissolves into anarchy as the cattle begin to stampede, and the chess game of the ruling elite suddenly turns into calvinball. If I can name names, they'll be strung up within a month; if I can't, they're still cut off from their support structure, and one by one the New World Order topples.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by Makoto]

The police did not shoot the students at Kent State. It was a bunch of Ohio farm kids called into active duty in the National Guard, clueless and scared to death. To my knowledge, no one was beaten. Read the book some time. It is a fascinating insight into the mindset on both sides of the guns.

Face it - sometimes bad things happen for no real reason. The world is full of coincidences.

reply to post by Makoto
If instead of power the puppet masters had the fountain of youth and an elixer of immortality something an army of average people could not offer, it would explain why so many world leaders find the NWO impossible to resist. It also helps that people who believe in a higher power have no influence in politics.



[edit on 27-7-2008 by eradown]

Well, I suppose to me it depends on what you mean by "being watched." Many years ago (I was in junior high or high school and I am now 33) I remember someone telling me that certain books would be flagged if you tried to take them out of a library, and therefore your "file" would be flagged. I have no idea if this was true, but it seems to me that starting a file on a 15 year old because they took out "The Anarchist's Cookbook" with the hope of making use of peanut shells is a waste of resources.

With the advent of the internet I do belive that the PTB have an easy way to track where we go online, and it would be foolish to think they don't follow our activity on here. But in my case, I think that is where it ends. As someone above me put it, I am simply not "that important" to them. I go to work, pay my taxes, etc. I have never noticed anyone surveilling me- no vans, no men in suits taking pictures, no weird phone clicks, etc.

I think the difference is that I am not downloading information, nor am I disseminating it, or asking people to revolt, or anything of that nature. I come here and to other alternative sites simply because I seek the truth, for myself, and because I find conspiracy theories fascinating.

Another person recently posted a thread which you cited about her and boyfriend being watched. If I remember correctly, she said that they had been researching data on a variety of topics for decades, and had kept lengthy records on her computer. I am inclined to believe that she would be checked up on, because they would see her as more of "a threat." And I can't remember if she said this, but if she had stumbled onto some actual proof of something, as opposed to just other people's theories, that would make her more of a target.

I think that they don't care about people just looking for information- it is what those people plan to do with that information that matters.

Editted for spelling, and for an improper use of a pronoun. I'm done now.

[edit on 7/27/2008 by GetOutOfMyRabbitHole]

[edit on 7/27/2008 by GetOutOfMyRabbitHole]

Originally posted by Makoto
You still haven't explained how people are shut up.

You don't have to. In fact, there have been a number of people who HAVE spoken up. And y'know what?

Either they are threatened and they shut up;

They are "discredited" - as in untrue statements are passed around the media, or;

They are killed (weird accidents, "heart attacks" when their heart was healthy, "muggings," ad infinitum).

But the MSM will do all it can to not even bring their stories up. And without many people knowing the truth, it never reaches a tipping point. And if it doesn't reach a tipping point...it just doesn't matter to the PTB.

... and then during an international address, I expose them to the world without the slightest warning--and I don't mean JFKesque vague insinuations, I mean going up in front of the nation and turning a routine State of the Union speech into a public expose of all involved, by name if possible.

Wow. Believe me, if you were high enough to have access to an international address platform, you would be in it so deeply you wouldn't be calling foul.

Only the little guys might do that, and THEY will never have access to an international address platform.

You are pulling an impossible situation out of your nether regions and trying to pass it off as some plausible scenario. And you accuse ME of suggesting the impossible.

Naive, indeed.

Are we being watched? It's possible. Is ATS some sort of NSA or DIA project? That's also possible. How likely either of these two scenarios being the case is something we can't be sure of, or even ballpark a figure. Although, that second scenario we could probably throw out the window.

Makoto is right; we're just not that important. We pose no real threat. There is no organized, financed, trained, and idealogically conditioned group of operatives functing in ATS under various aliases that will pose a threat to the status quo.

We're a bunch of spectators in the grand scheme of things.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by Lucidliving]

I think calling all people that use this forum ACTIVISTS is a bit strong and over the top. YOU may be an activist OP, but others on here just have an interest in the subject matter and want to stay informed. Why do you consider yourself an activist? Are you actually 'out there' getting things done? What are you doing in terms of PHYSICALLY getting information/asking questions/informing the public on whatever subject matter you are reffering too?

Or are you just posting some opinions, which may well be accurate/innacurate, and then class yourself as an ACTIVIST? either perhaps because you feel it gives you some standing/credibilty or because it makes you feel better about yourself.
I'm not attacking you, i'm genuinly interested to know because there are thousands of people out there working their butts off and putting there futures at risk, on OUR behalf that are truly 'ACTIVE' in the pursuit of truth and spreading that truth, and bringing about justice to those that would bring about the end of our way of life.
To consider oneself among such company is a BOLD statement in my opinion!

Originally posted by Lucidliving
Makoto is right; we're just not that important. We pose no real threat. There is no organized, financed, trained, and idealogically conditioned group of operatives functing in ATS under various aliases that will pose a threat to the status quo.

Wrong. I do believe it has been written that the pen is mightier than the sword. And why is that? Because if you bring a perspective to others, and widely disseminate it, and it is embraced, the "other side" loses power.

Given that ATS has (I believe it's still true - and so I was told) the highest number of "hits" on the web, information brought up here is getting widely disseminated. So if one is writing things that threaten the PTB, on such a site, why WOULDN'T they be interested?

We're a bunch of spectators in the grand scheme of things.

Heh. Maybe YOU are, but I am on a quest to disseminate information and perspective.

Amaterasu, think about what you're saying. All the most powerful people in the world, and obviously most of the nastiest if what you believe is true, in one group, working toward one agenda, with no betrayal or infighting whatsoever? Everybody involved in this is enough of a monster to be complicit in the murder of billions, but not enough of a monster to see the profit in turning on the others? How did they get where they are today, if not by doing exactly that to others? How many sociopaths do you really think you can pack into one room without somebody getting the shaft? Most of the Nazis thought they were doing the right thing, too, and there was plenty of jockeying for position within the party nonetheless--and they were operating openly, with the entire country under their thumb. A society like the one you postulate would implode the moment one of the inner circle realized that he stood a chance of ruling the world himself.
EDIT: Oh, and by all means explain to me how such a vast trail of bodies would go unnoticed. I await a list of names, and accompanying inflation of the conspiracy to encompass everybody who provides a more sensible alternate explanation. I would predict that you'll implicate the entire global media, but you've already done that; obviously, every authority who contradicts you is part of the vast conspiracy, and you and your kind are the only people special enough to see the truth. And you say I have a childishly simplistic worldview?

[edit on 28-7-2008 by Makoto]

Originally posted by Makoto
Amaterasu, think about what you're saying. All the most powerful people in the world, and obviously most of the nastiest if what you believe is true, in one group, working toward one agenda, with no betrayal or infighting whatsoever?

Lessee... Bohemian Grove comes to mind. The Bilderbergers. And others. Do THEY let anyone know what goes on in their meetings and...er...rituals?

Nope.

Bohemian Grove has been infiltrated and footage shot. It's quite disturbing. And no one has gotten into the Bilderberger meetings. And no one is coming out and telling us what went on. We don't know.

So, yes. I HAVE thought about what I am saying. A LOT. And I conclude that yes. There IS "one group, working toward one agenda." Any attempted betrayal is likely suppressed. Any infighting is kept private.

Everybody involved in this is enough of a monster to be complicit in the murder of billions, but not enough of a monster to see the profit in turning on the others?

Unless YOU can tell me what that profit is, specifically, I'm going to believe that they feel there is far more profit in ignoring the plebes and dealing with their business amongst themselves. I mean, they are raised believing they are better than us. They are groomed. They have tons of money and the goal is to get all of ours.

Until you grasp that they don't care about us, you will continue in your naivety.

How did they get where they are today, if not by doing exactly that to others?

Most were born into the gang. Some few made (LOTS of) money and were enticed. And that about covers it.

How many sociopaths do you really think you can pack into one room without somebody getting the shaft?

Heh. If they think they're part of an Elite, better than those they step on, deserving of more, and are a big "club..." A whole lot.

Most of the Nazis thought they were doing the right thing, too, and there was plenty of jockeying for position within the party nonetheless--and they were operating openly, with the entire country under their thumb.

Well there ya go! If the world pretty much hadn't opposed them, they would have continued (well, they DID continue - quietly, here in places like White Sands, under Project Paperclip). I do not doubt that there are power plays and so on amongst these people, but I am sure that they still keep the goals they have set in mind. None think the answer is to throw themselves out into the sea of plebes, be stripped of their wealth for their guilt and complicity, and hope they bring down the rest.

The rest will deny it, and their media toadies will spin it just that way. (And yes, some media people have tried to speak out. They lose their jobs, can't work in the industry, or they have terrible "accidents.")

And it makes no difference.

A society like the one you postulate would implode the moment one of the inner circle realized that he stood a chance of ruling the world himself.

But that's just it... They all realize they never will stand a chance of ruling alone. To try is a death sentence. Naive, my dear. Naive.

EDIT: Oh, and by all means explain to me how such a vast trail of bodies would go unnoticed.

Sweetheart... There are trails of scientists' bodies who have been connected to this thing or that. They don't go unnoticed, per se. Some few look at the information and say, "Wow. There's a lot of scientists connected with Project (X) who are dying mysterious or untimely deaths!"

And they mention it on the internet... And the MSM, who may report a few of the deaths, NEVER makes the connection for the Average Joe. And so the Average Joe never thinks about it. And they never understand that there is a deeper level that that John Q. Physicist died, and so did Mary P. Chemist.

That's how.

I await a list of names, and accompanying inflation of the conspiracy to encompass everybody who provides a more sensible alternate explanation. I would predict that you'll implicate the entire global media, but you've already done that; obviously, every authority who contradicts you is part of the vast conspiracy, and you and your kind are the only people special enough to see the truth. And you say I have a childishly simplistic worldview?

Names? Of whom? Those in the conspiracy? Or...? And, no... Not the "entire global media..." Just a few well-placed individuals. Those who decide what to report and how to report it.

What authorities are you referring to relative to contradicting me? There's a list *I* would like to see.

And... Yes, dear. I do say you have a simplistic view.

Well, I've been lurking on this forum for some time now, and I've never felt compelled to join or contribute anything beyond what I'm about to contribute now, for precisely the reasons I'm shortly going to detail.

If there is such a wide-scale conspiracy in the works, it seems that its success depends largely on public collaboration to some degree or another. The public needs to be led to a state of apathy, more or less. That, or lead itself there. Apathy can originate from many different circumstances - people can be lulled into a false sense of security, placated by delusions of superiority, blinded by ignorance, galvanized by fear... Often, there is some combination of all these factors acting together to produce the effect so many people here believe they are seeing evidenced in public behaviour worldwide.

I'm limited to 4000 characters, so I'll be brief: the same basic mechanisms are still evident on these forums, at least insofar as they really matter. Posting quietly on an internet message board from the comfort of modern living quarters is not activism - it is doing precisely what the supposed conspirators want us to do. Preaching on a soapbox to one another, we the converted, while the rest of the public ignores and disbelieves in equal measure, isn't accomplishing very much of real world significance now, is it? If the "puppetmasters" want to encourage feelings of elitism, entitlement and fear in the public, what difference is there to them between elitism borne of geographical circumstance and elitism borne of "exclusive" knowledge? What difference between fear of terror, or fear of the NWO? The result is the same, to them. The only deviation between the two is that instead of turning to government for a solution, people here turn to one another. There is no more solution to be found here with any real impact. The fact is, these plans are based on the assumption that the public can no longer muster sufficient motivation and courage to organize into a proper counterculture - assumptions which are largely correct.

We all have too much to lose, and are desperate to hold on to as much as possible for as long as possible, so we don't really act on this exclusive knowledge, lest we lose it that much faster. Just the fact of taking real action is a guarantee that we will immediately lose at least some of those remaining privileges we hold dear, whether or not there is retaliation for our actions.

I am no different. I fear tyranny precisely because I have no interest in - or desire for - politics or power, cannot understand the childish motivations behind greed, and have only ever desired a quiet existence of no real consequence to anybody outside my immediate circle, wherein I would be free to do those few things that interest me, and just generally be left alone. And yet, despite so many people believing that the chance for such an existence is soon to be wrenched from everyone's grasp, I find that the only reasonable course of action I can conceive of is to escape as far away as possible, and hold off the inevitable for as long as possible. Cowardly? Perhaps. Temporary? Surely. Guaranteed? Not at all, even in the short run. But better than the alternatives.

If this conspiracy is truly as far-reaching as people seem to think it is, then who's to say where it begins, where it ends, who's responsible, who's free from it, and who the victims really are? For all we know every single last one of us has been manipulated to work within this agenda, even those of us who think we're above it at least on an intellectual level. By now, it's probable the conspirators themselves couldn't even halt what's been set in motion.

The tools for tyranny are in place, and there will always be someone ready to step up and take the reins, so perhaps the best any of us can truly wish for is a quiet, solitary existence, living off the land and our own independence, sacrificing all the "greater" things that humanity can accomplish.

???

Originally posted by CorprolithChicanery
I'm limited to 4000 characters, so I'll be brief: the same basic mechanisms are still evident on these forums, at least insofar as they really matter. Posting quietly on an internet message board from the comfort of modern living quarters is not activism - it is doing precisely what the supposed conspirators want us to do. Preaching on a soapbox to one another, we the converted, while the rest of the public ignores and disbelieves in equal measure, isn't accomplishing very much of real world significance now, is it?

Ah, but you're not seeing the whole picture. There are a phenominal number of hits here daily. Most are curious, undecided lurkers. They read and have thoughts, and tell their friends these thoughts and the facts or concepts that they are getting from here. They tell their friends about here. The friends look, and think, and so it goes.

The big difference in the Elite and what is going on here is that ANYBODY can read, be a part of, join, think about, etc. This is decidedly NOT true of, say...Bohemian Grove or the Bilderbergers or any of the other places where world planning is going on.

Believe me, I am not preaching to any choir members out there. I'm preaching to people like Makoto - who don't yet have a full picture of how things function in this world.

I am preaching to that curious dude(tte) that never really thought about things in the way I offer.

And I know the word is going out, and I am hoping the tipping point will be achieved before it's too late for the US of A and the world.

If the "puppetmasters" want to encourage feelings of elitism, entitlement and fear in the public, what difference is there to them between elitism borne of geographical circumstance and elitism borne of "exclusive" knowledge?

Well, that's not what we have here. Here we have knowledge out there for anyone to find. Anyone has access to what we offer here. (Unless they don't have computer access. But I can only hope most can get to a library at the very least.) Point is, this is the exact OPPOSITE of "exclusive" knowledge. It's a sharing of it.

What difference between fear of terror, or fear of the NWO? The result is the same, to them. The only deviation between the two is that instead of turning to government for a solution, people here turn to one another.

Um... Many minds working on problems, disseminating information, and even (!) talking to friends and families make for a higher likelihood of solution. What would you have? No communication? Each of us standing alone? This is a very BIG deviation. And many here stand fearless, and would motivate others to accept the truth and stand fearless as well.

And to be frank, I had a chuckle at the thought of its being somehow pointless to turn to one another for support and solutions. (And BTW... The fear of terror is a tool of the NWO. That "dichotomy" also elicited a chuckle.)

There is no more solution to be found here with any real impact.

Really? And where would be a better place then?

The fact is, these plans are based on the assumption that the public can no longer muster sufficient motivation and courage to organize into a proper counterculture - assumptions which are largely correct.

Maybe. And maybe we will go tipping point. Because that is what it will take. And I cannot guess whether it will happen before it's too late.

We all have too much to lose, and are desperate to hold on to as much as possible for as long as possible, so we don't really act on this exclusive knowledge, lest we lose it that much faster. Just the fact of taking real action is a guarantee that we will immediately lose at least some of those remaining privileges we hold dear, whether or not there is retaliation for our actions.

I say it depends on the actions taken.

I am no different. I fear tyranny precisely because I have no interest in - or desire for - politics or power, cannot understand the childish motivations behind greed, and have only ever desired a quiet existence of no real consequence to anybody outside my immediate circle, wherein I would be free to do those few things that interest me, and just generally be left alone.

Heh. I'm with you there (except for the fear thing - I HATE tyranny because I have no interest (etc.)). But I long ago realized that I cannot sit by and let the horror happen. I MUST stand against what is trying to unfold.

And yet, despite so many people believing that the chance for such an existence is soon to be wrenched from everyone's grasp, I find that the only reasonable course of action I can conceive of is to escape as far away as possible, and hold off the inevitable for as long as possible. Cowardly? Perhaps. Temporary? Surely. Guaranteed? Not at all, even in the short run. But better than the alternatives.

What? Standing up? Having cojones? Adding your voice? Fighting the evil? If that is your choice, so be it, dude. But know, I fight even for you.

If this conspiracy is truly as far-reaching as people seem to think it is, then who's to say where it begins, where it ends, who's responsible, who's free from it, and who the victims really are?

I admit that the edges are fuzzy. But I can assure you, the victims will be in the billions and not hard to spot, peering out of the camps, or being transported to the incinerators in those lovely FEMA caskets.

For all we know every single last one of us has been manipulated to work within this agenda, even those of us who think we're above it at least on an intellectual level. By now, it's probable the conspirators themselves couldn't even halt what's been set in motion.

My defeatist friend, you may be right. But taking words from history, Give me liberty or give me death. And if the Universe goes the way They plan, I will not be here, having laid down my life to try and stop it.

The tools for tyranny are in place, and there will always be someone ready to step up and take the reins, so perhaps the best any of us can truly wish for is a quiet, solitary existence, living off the land and our own independence, sacrificing all the "greater" things that humanity can accomplish.

If they have their way, you won't get that either. They will find you by your body heat. They will find you by your scent. They will find you by your electromagnetic signature. They will find you, and you too will be peering out the fences. You too will be starving. You too will be their experiments. You too will be forced into death-dealing labor. You too will see far worse than that.

Not me. Gimme lib or I'm outie.

There are now over 1 million Americans not illegals or Muslim Americans
but Americans who are ardent Patriots on the terrorist list

you have been spied on long before 911
the phone companies that broke the law in abetting the govt in doing this to you are protected now
and you can bet your bottom line your being watched

anyone who has talked about their guns on the internet in phone coversations
or in their emails
are suspect
those that have big plans to steal away into the bushes when the deal goes down they will find out to their dismay long before the deal goes down they will be detained strip searched and probed
your guns taken and plans squashed
So don't let your testosterone get you carried away