Similarities With Hitler's Staged Provocations?

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Wow, you can creatively edit other people's posts, seemingly picking certain comments at will and leaving all the rest of the important information that was pertinent behind.

I applaud you in your agenda of attempting to side-rail anything important being stated within this thread.

*Back To The Regularly Scheduled Thread Topic At Hand*

This isn't about the survival-of-the-fittest or my-prejudice-is-better-than-yours. What I'm trying to do is take the fear and blame factor out of the equation and access the facts with a level head. That means I have to assume -- since all man is inherently evil (that conclusion is based on thousands of years of history) -- that no matter what viewpoint is being promoted here, it's tainted.

That's my quantum perception of the matter. I hope you don't easily dismiss it as if I'm part of some conspiracy cover up or pro-Bush campaign. If you look deeper, you just might discover an even deeper-level conspiracy. But that may require being able to see beyond our normal 3rd and 4th dimensions.

And thanks for the inspiration. I've just changed my signature.

reply to post by Matrix1111


You know, I think without fear, going straight to logic and using intelligence to logically tear apart the details, which is how I got to where I did with the facts. The problem with particular bit of facts, is that it is a fear driven form of manipulation that both particular instances, the fire in the Reichstag and September 11th, in that the reaction is the same. People use no logic, and fear in a time like those particular instances, and they run like lemmings through the fight or flight mentality.

This particular instance, of these two events is particularly important to understand that fear was a motivating factor in the manipulation factor. Whether Hitler or Bush had hands in particular in the events unfolding is actually irrelevant if you take away the fear factor as the control mechanism, as it was a part of the process.

Remember, directly after September 11th, people were polled :

Would You Surrender Some Your Rights To Feel Safer?

This being an important question, especially in the fact that the majority of people answered yes.

My answer would have been no, not only no, but Hell no.

If I were there at either event, I would have been watching to see if there was anyone suspicious doing something out of the ordinary, vehicles out of place, or someone walking away from the buildings instead of running, only because I know that this is much deeper than just a building catching fire or three building collapsing and a "terrrorist" event, because I never bought into the possibility of a bunch of would-be America-haters from Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, as being the only part of the puzzle.

I know for a fact, that this goes back to more facts than a "us vs them" mentality, it goes back to the C.I.A. funding militant Middle Easterner's during a surrogate war with Russia, and a foreign policy shift where military/Government pulled out funding, weapons, and support, and this is still only a small part of the cogs within the cogs.

No, I don't think you're a part of the process to cover-up any of this, however, I feel if you had explained your stance, it sure would never have had the appearance of it to begin with, instead of just deleting bits of what I said.

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001

This is a great book, that shows a more in depth part of the history in that the Middle East was a part of the surrogate war with Russia during the Cold War, and this is one of the many reasons they are pissed at the United States of America. There are many other books out there like this one, and many many others I can or can later reference here, but only chose this one at this time.

Even Charlie Wilson's War shows to some extent some of the involvement through the fictional move based on real life, that we wanted to fight the Russian's through the surrogate means in order to be indirectly involved, because it was the Cold War.

While I hate the fact that fear is a motivator of some, I do understand it is, and in this particular thread, it is a large part that needs to be shown here as a motivating factor of the after the facts clues that lead to the laws that shifted and changed immediately after these events took place.

As evidenced supposedly by the Nazi's slipping out of Germany through submarine's, this is indicative of a fear driven reaction, is it not?

Now, if, and I say if, the rumor-mill that is stating Bush bought property in Paraguay, is true, isn't this indicative of the fear driven reaction?

Wheras Buenos Aires opened it's doors willingly to the Nazi's, because of pre-prepared deals through banking and property deals, and then later was forced to give in to a extradition-treaty with America, Paraguay does not have such a treaty with America.

I'm not saying that the rumor of Paraguay is true, only using it as an example here in fear driven reactions.



[edit on 24-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
9/11 truly was the "New Pearl Harbor," just like the neocons predicted:

www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216859998&sr=8-1

This seems to me to be the most likely scenario that explains Bush Jr.'s involvement in the 911 conspiracy, if there is any involvement. He knew it was coming but did nothing to stop it. But it's all conjecture being used by various spin machines for various ulterior motives. That's the nature of history.

You should read the entire "Day of Deceit" review. Not only did FDR and his war advisors know everything about Pearl Harbor in advance, the U.S. actually provoked Japan into attacking by sending warships into Japanese territorial waters to surround them and cut off their oil supplies.

Bush may or may not have been directly involved, but Cheney and Rumsfeld sure the hell were. Stand-downs don't occur and buildings don't get demolished without inside knowledge at the highest levels.

Originally posted by Grock
Hitler's rise to power in Germany displays a remarkable manipulation of events to develop and explain evil objectives. The Reichstag Fire of February 27, 1933, is a prime example of such behavior. Although it is unclear who actually started the fire, it is undeniable that the Nazis capitalized on the event and manipulated it entirely to their own advantage. Claiming that the fire was a left-wing onslaught against the established state, Hitler persuaded President Hindenburg to sign a decree "for the Protection of the People and of the State." This enabled the state to exercise whatever powers it so wanted in the name of public safety. (Ring a bell?) Certain crimes became punishable by death...

I agree with the comparison, the Nazis made great use of propaganda and false flag operations to manufacture the consent of Hindenburg and later the people. In some case that involved engineered events like the Reichstag Fire and Operation Canned Goods. In the latter case the attempt was clumsy, but they still played it to great effect.

Noam Chomsky, writer of a book called Manufacturing Consent, said of 9/11 when asked who did it, or some such phrased question, 'who knows, who cares.' That bothered me for a long time. But he is right. 9/11 happened and whether it was committed by the US government, the CIA, Mossad or followers of Osama Bin Laden, the media and the US government have used it to marginalise muslims and to wage war against muslim nations. No matter who did it, the result remains the same, and there lies the true threat.

In that respect I agree with other posters who have compared it to Pearl Harbour. There is evidence that intelligence was received warning of an attack against Pearl Harbour and that intelligence was ignored. If there seems to be any sort of consensus over 9/11 it is that the event was anticipated. Just there is evidence that Oklahoma City was anticipated and just as, according to Jim Marrs among others, that Kennedy's assassination was anticipated.




[edit on 24-7-2008 by KilgoreTrout]

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by Matrix1111

 

You know, I think without fear, going straight to logic and using intelligence to logically tear apart the details, which is how I got to where I did with the facts. The problem with particular bit of facts, is that it is a fear driven form of manipulation that both particular instances, the fire in the Reichstag and September 11th, in that the reaction is the same. People use no logic, and fear in a time like those particular instances, and they run like lemmings through the fight or flight mentality.

This particular instance, of these two events is particularly important to understand that fear was a motivating factor in the manipulation factor. Whether Hitler or Bush had hands in particular in the events unfolding is actually irrelevant if you take away the fear factor as the control mechanism, as it was a part of the process.

Remember, directly after September 11th, people were polled :

Would You Surrender Some Your Rights To Feel Safer?

This being an important question, especially in the fact that the majority of people answered yes.

My answer would have been no, not only no, but Hell no.

If I were there at either event, I would have been watching to see if there was anyone suspicious doing something out of the ordinary, vehicles out of place, or someone walking away from the buildings instead of running, only because I know that this is much deeper than just a building catching fire or three building collapsing and a "terrrorist" event, because I never bought into the possibility of a bunch of would-be America-haters from Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, as being the only part of the puzzle.

I know for a fact, that this goes back to more facts than a "us vs them" mentality, it goes back to the C.I.A. funding militant Middle Easterner's during a surrogate war with Russia, and a foreign policy shift where military/Government pulled out funding, weapons, and support, and this is still only a small part of the cogs within the cogs.

No, I don't think you're a part of the process to cover-up any of this, however, I feel if you had explained your stance, it sure would never have had the appearance of it to begin with, instead of just deleting bits of what I said.

Here's the ATS instructions about commenting while quoting someone:

"If you need to quote a member's post in your reply, please ensure you edit down the quoted amount to the minimum needed to make your point. Overly large quotes or minimal replies are subject to warnings or deletion."

I'm sure you think every word of yours is important. But that's another matter I'm not allowed to get into. (Also ATS rules.) Out of respect to your viewpoint, though, I didn't delete "bits."

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001

This is a great book, that shows a more in depth part of the history in that the Middle East was a part of the surrogate war with Russia during the Cold War, and this is one of the many reasons they are pissed at the United States of America. There are many other books out there like this one, and many many others I can or can later reference here, but only chose this one at this time.

Even Charlie Wilson's War shows to some extent some of the involvement through the fictional move based on real life, that we wanted to fight the Russian's through the surrogate means in order to be indirectly involved, because it was the Cold War.

The Cold War had an aggressor/instigator. Who do you think it was? We can discuss the tactics of proxy wars later. But I just want to know where you're coming from ideologicially.

While I hate the fact that fear is a motivator of some, I do understand it is, and in this particular thread, it is a large part that needs to be shown here as a motivating factor of the after the facts clues that lead to the laws that shifted and changed immediately after these events took place.

As evidenced supposedly by the Nazi's slipping out of Germany through submarine's, this is indicative of a fear driven reaction, is it not?

Now, if, and I say if, the rumor-mill that is stating Bush bought property in Paraguay, is true, isn't this indicative of the fear driven reaction?

Wheras Buenos Aires opened it's doors willingly to the Nazi's, because of pre-prepared deals through banking and property deals, and then later was forced to give in to a extradition-treaty with America, Paraguay does not have such a treaty with America.

I'm not saying that the rumor of Paraguay is true, only using it as an example here in fear driven reactions.

But your conspiracy is big on fear. It seems to follow a readymade terrorist formula of propaganda. The same kind Hitler used against the Jews or the kind Communists used during the Cold War to drum up loyalty in far off places (speaking of proxy wars).

Okay, I'm assuming you think there is a good guy in all this 911 conspiracy stuff. Who is it? Let's skip to the car chase.

reply to post by Matrix1111


My conspiracy?

Um, last time I checked, I was not conspiring to shut down Constituitional rights, nor was I involved in the actual process of the conspiracy.

Conspiracy is the word used to de-rail people into not believing someone who might actually have a clue through discrediting them.

I prefer the word collusion.

Good guys? It's not the propaganda addicted World Government.

Good guys? It's not the hate driven Middle East.

I only see the citizens themselves, being caught in the middle of a whole lot of idiots in power.

My conspiracy indeed.

If I had any options in this, Bush and Cheney would be tried for war crimes, as well as any politician linked to Halliburton, and any other war-profiteering idiot I could get hands on.

Not based on conpsiracy though, based on collusion, an actual chargeable offense.

Dictionary.com : Collusion

Wikipedia : Collusion

This still fits into the process of the staged provocations and similarities, as Hitler colluded with his henchmen as well through propganda means.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by Matrix1111

 

My conspiracy?

I meant the conspiracy being voiced in your thread.

Looks to me like you got yourself worked up and are ready for war. The question is, who's pushing your buttons? The answer is beyond the obvious.

Go ahead, be someone else's puppet, if it makes you happy. But it would be smarter not to get suckered in unless you're absolutely sure you know the game.

Back to the topic at hand with the original thread's intent.

Yes, I see very many similarities between the Reichstag building, and September 11th.

The Reichstag fire was a pretext towards wars for Hitler.

The attack of "terrorists" of the Twin Towers in NYC, was a pretext of war for Bush.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Okay, let's clarify the logical facts base on this theory:

1. Bush is a secret nazi

2. Bin Laden was part of the 911 plan and his whole declaration of jihad against the US was a pretense.

3. This means al Qaeda is a secret nazi network working in conjunction with Bush.

4. The US milita groups, being nazis, are also part of the pretense.

5. The goal is to:

a) destroy the current Islamic leadership
b) destroy the US Constitution
c) destroy the West
d) set up a world nazi dictatorship

6. Finally, using the VRIL flying saucers that Hitler had developed right at the end of WWII, this nazi network will pretend to be aliens here to save the world from self-destruction. They will show up on the White House lawn and convince the world it would be in our best interest to allow them to "fix things." Martial law will begin and "undesirables" will be relocated to concentration/extermination camps that are already set up around the world. Hitler will be taken out of deep freeze (Cryonics) and establish the 4th Reich.

Some great posts and points made here, i appreciate the input and feel a little safer knowing that im not alone in my suspicions concerning these similarities.

Matrix, I have 1 question for you, while i see what you are saying and understand your reasoning behind them, I am unsure whether you agree with my OP or disagree. The similarities you point to create a nice tangent (which probably deserves a thread of its own) but that tangent leaves me unsure exactly as to where its going...

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Excellent point. well said.

Originally posted by deltaboy
I don't see any Jews being pushed around and force to wear the Star of David.

Neither did most of Germany's citizens.

Originally posted by Grock
Some great posts and points made here, i appreciate the input and feel a little safer knowing that im not alone in my suspicions concerning these similarities.

Matrix, I have 1 question for you, while i see what you are saying and understand your reasoning behind them, I am unsure whether you agree with my OP or disagree. The similarities you point to create a nice tangent (which probably deserves a thread of its own) but that tangent leaves me unsure exactly as to where its going...

Yes, it deserves a thread of it's own. It's the logical conclusion I come to using your OP and the views of others here that support your view. It puts all the pieces together. Be my guest and use it. I personally haven't come to any conclusions what I believe on the matter. There isn't enough evidence. There's only conjecture and allegation so far. And many contradictions.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
The Prescott Bush youtube is interesting. It makes a good case against Bush being a supporter of Hitler. But how does that help solidify your 911 conspiracy charge? Wouldn't Prescott Bush being pro-Hitler mean he was anti-jewish? And wouldn't that mean that Bush Jr. would also be anti-jewish? If so, then wouldn't Bush Jr. want to support the terrorist groups that are anti-jewish? Wouldn't Bush Jr. work together with bin Laden and help plan 911 even? Yes, this 911 conspiracy is getting bigger and bigger.

Just because Hitler was anti-semitic, doesn't mean his followers had to be. They were/are more interested in the fascist state. If Bush were anti-Muslim, do we then equate all of Americans who have supported him as anti-muslim also?

Why does talking about the fascism of the Nazis always devolve into anti-semitic rhetoric? Yes, it was part of it. No, it does not define fascism.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Matrix1111
The Prescott Bush youtube is interesting. It makes a good case against Bush being a supporter of Hitler. But how does that help solidify your 911 conspiracy charge? Wouldn't Prescott Bush being pro-Hitler mean he was anti-jewish? And wouldn't that mean that Bush Jr. would also be anti-jewish? If so, then wouldn't Bush Jr. want to support the terrorist groups that are anti-jewish? Wouldn't Bush Jr. work together with bin Laden and help plan 911 even? Yes, this 911 conspiracy is getting bigger and bigger.

Just because Hitler was anti-semitic, doesn't mean his followers had to be. They were/are more interested in the fascist state. If Bush were anti-Muslim, do we then equate all of Americans who have supported him as anti-muslim also?

Why does talking about the fascism of the Nazis always devolve into anti-semitic rhetoric? Yes, it was part of it. No, it does not define fascism.

I'll consider your point. Hitler did agree to work with Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini even though he and his Muslim followers weren't Aryan. Each faction 911 conspiracy could be using each other for their own aims and plan on killing off their allies later in a Lenin/Stalin manner.

[edit on 7/25/2008 by Matrix1111]

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Back to the topic at hand with the original thread's intent.

Yes, I see very many similarities between the Reichstag building, and September 11th.

The Reichstag fire was a pretext towards wars for Hitler.

The attack of "terrorists" of the Twin Towers in NYC, was a pretext of war for Bush.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Exactly.

Originally posted by Grock

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Back to the topic at hand with the original thread's intent.

Yes, I see very many similarities between the Reichstag building, and September 11th.

The Reichstag fire was a pretext towards wars for Hitler.

The attack of "terrorists" of the Twin Towers in NYC, was a pretext of war for Bush.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Exactly.

Thanks for noticing that.

The similarities are so overwhelming obvious to some and not to others.

It's called Casus Belli, which is Latin.

Casus Belli : Latin for Justification of War

It's all posturing within Politics where saber-rattling and screaming at the top of someone's lung making accusations gets the populace behind one Politician or another. A simple version of this is the mud-slinging that happens during a Presidential run for office.

One Presidential nominee cals the other one something slightly derogatory, and then the other has a valid reason to attack them back in the limelight.

Posturing, saber-rattling, and accusations, ah well politics as usual in Washington D.C., Nazi Germany, Rome, and Sparta.



[edit on 26-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

This thread may hit a little to close to home for most to believe or even speculate about. This couldnt possibly be true... could it?

Usually in emergencies, the majority wont realize something is wrong, until it is too late...

What really gets me about here eerie this is, is the fact they both capitalized on their respective events fairly simultaneous with the events themselves.

Im not saying that they were orchestrated by their respective parties (though there are plenty of those theories floating around) but they were MOST CERTAINLY utilized to the fullest extent both immediately and thoroughly by their respective governments for the cause of self righteousnessness, self aggrandizement and the persecution of "them" that caused these events (which we all know in both cases may not have been the case at all, and so therefore possibly fabricated events).

They both look exactly the same to me...

How does that saying go? Those who are unaware of history are doomed to repeat it?

Here are some interesting sites concerning this topic:

911 Reichstag Fire - whatreallyhappened.com...

this one is good - www.commondreams.org...

and you definately want to check this one out -
www.oilempire.us...

Anyone still doubting the similarities?