The Dark Knight: NWO Propaganda

This is the first thread I've ever started, so I hope I chose the right board.

I just got back from watching The Dark Knight. Having heard that it was a deep movie, using the comic motif to address political and moral issues, similar to V for Vendetta, I was excited. But that excitement's turned to shock and disgust; it's a 180 degree turn in ideology from V. This movie doesn't expose fascism, it defends it. The Dark Knight is blatant NWO proganda!

I should say "SPOILER ALERT", but this has little to do with plot. Still, if you're worried about having the movie ruined by a few details, see the movie first and come back later...

Okay -- at one point in the film, Batman turns on every cell phone in Gotham, and uses them to spy on 30 million people. Despite some hesitance, Fox agrees -- they need to find out where the Joker is, and that supersedes all moral (or Constitutional) considerations.

The parallel is, of course, Bush's eavesdropping program, which violated our 4th Amendment rights and separation of powers, in removing all judicial and congressional oversight from this executive action.

It would be great if the movie really discussed the moral implications of this decision, but instead The Dark Knight unanimously concludes that Batman is fully justified in spying -- so long as it's only done this once, and by someone trusted.

This is the overarching message of the film, and we're hit with it over the head time and time again: Sometimes we need a vigilante, sometimes the justice system and self-governance aren't enough, and a "real hero" emerges to save us from our own moral limitations. Someone with the strength of will to do what needs to be done. It comes up time and again, whether during the interrogation scenes (which are obvious references to Gitmo), or the D.A. dragging a suspect into a back alley (what's habeas corpus?). It's even the tagline at the end of the film: Sometimes the hero we "deserve" isn't the hero we "need."

Even more relevant to ATS members is another conclusion at the end of the film -- that the truth about what happened must be kept secret from the public, that it's better to spin a useful fabrication than cop to reality. Better to keep those ignorant fools in the dark than deal with their disillusionment.

The Dark Knight could be a commercial for the New World Order -- trust your leaders, even when they break the law, even when they spy on you, even when they lie. Ignorance is bliss; sleep well little children.

And if you don't think it works, just check some of the other ATS threads. I looked first to see if anyone else was complaining about this, and instead found this thread full of people who swallowed the pill. Check out Shazam's comment, which serves as a nice summary:

I always knew it. Bush is Batman. He's hated because he's strong enough to be hated, while still doing whats necessary to defeat the jokers of the world.

"

Right. There's also this thread, that calls the movie a "conspiracy theorist's wet dream." I'd call it instead a nightmare.

My only question now is, who made this film? Was it just a set producers who subscribe to the fraudulent "NeoCon" worldview, or is this movie another gambit in the Cultural Cold War?

You might have something there. I noticed now that some movies nowadays are blended in with the reality of this world, so in a way it's not suprising. But people aren't paying any attention to some of the signs that are out there in these movies. The only difference with movies and reality is that people are deluded to the fact that movies are fiction and not real.

But I would like to say that you have a good eye. The government probably okays it as being acceptable and to make sure that their agenda isn't too obvious when it's released out into the open.

So I'll give it a star and flag on this one.

[edit on 21-7-2008 by Shrukin89]

LOL. Do you read the comics?

The whole sonar surveillance thing is a nod to the Brother EYE system/satellite that Batman created to spy on his fellow superpowered heroes. Needless to say, the whole thing backfired on him and the poop hit the fan.

Coming from a Batman fan, I wholeheartedly disagree that Batman is pro-NWO. If anything, he's a paranoid conspiracy theorist like us ATS.

catinthebox -- did you actually read my post? I didn't say that the government funded the movie, I merely suggested the possibility with the last sentence. What the movie does is promote an ideology that supports the NWO worldview. If you disagree with that, prove me wrong.

d2che -- I haven't read the comic books, nor have I even seen "Batman Begins." I'm just looking at this movie as an isolated piece of art, like 30 million Americans will this summer. I'm glad that the comic book batman is a conspiracy nut like us, but this film itself is definitely pro-unitary executive...in other words, fascistic. And while I don't really believe in the alien disclosure theories around here, the movie's final notion, that the citizens of Gothem are better off not knowing the truth, sounds all too familiar.

Originally posted by timiathan
catinthebox -- did you actually read my post? I didn't say that the government funded the movie, I merely suggested the possibility with the last sentence. What the movie does is promote an ideology that supports the NWO worldview. If you disagree with that, prove me wrong.

why bother posting this at all then, horror movies promote ideologies that killing is right, when in the psychopaths mind, its just a movie

catinthebox I cant stand your profanity.

Timlathan haha thanks for spoiling the movie for me. Well only joking. I will look for some of these evidence when I head to the cinemas this week with the girlfriend.

why bother posting this at all then, horror movies promote ideologies that killing is right,

Are you serious? Horror movies don't do that at all. That's why they're called horror movies...they're "horrible." The killers are the "bad guys" and it's the main characters we relate to, who are only trying to defeat or avoid them. In the vast majority of horror movies, "good" prevails in the end, as the killers are brought to some kind of justice.

In The Dark Knight, the political commentary is that it's okay to subvert the laws that are at the foundation of our society. Those with power do what they want, and those without are only thankful for being saved.

Can you really not see the difference?

Originally posted by timiathan

Are you serious? Horror movies don't do that at all. That's why they're called horror movies...they're "horrible."

You're kidding me right? i loooove sidestepping points

The killers are the "bad guys" and it's the main characters we relate to, who are only trying to defeat or avoid them. In the vast majority of horror movies, "good" prevails in the end, as the killers are brought to some kind of justice.

In The Dark Knight, the political commentary is that it's okay to subvert the laws that are at the foundation of our society. Those with power do what they want, and those without are only thankful for being saved.

Can you really not see the difference?

Yeah sure , I get your point, my analogy that was off the top of my head was #ty.

The laws that are the foundation of our society? they were made by people who broke them, TO MAKE THEM, they did what was right by doing wrong things. Well I'm not sure about Canada, but i know for a fact they did it in the USA, they were traitors. And all's The Dark Knight does is say what's true, people with power do what they want, and those without power cannot object with any results most of the time. Christopher Nolan probably took that from real life and used it, it happens here, so why not use it for a movie with the same premise, except theres a key difference between real life and the movie. IT'S A MOVIE, IT'S AN IDEA, A COOL IDEA TO HAVE IN THE MOVIE, BATMAN HAS TO TAKE THE FALL TO MAKE EVEYRTHING RIGHT, you dotn see that in real life, you jsut see the spying, and that happens in too many movies. Batman makes it right in the end, get over this

just thought I'd drop by and say that I noticed the all the propaganda too. It amazes me that people don't see it, it's thrown in our faces throughout the entire movie. I guess the special effects and its "epic" length have distracted everyone from the subliminal brainwashing techniques at use in The Dark Knight. At least I can rest assured that it wasn't just me that was aware of it. Now that people are posting their thoughts of the movie on the internet, I see there are many other people who were offended at the abundance of neo-con ideology.

Dude you hit the nail on the #ing head man! So many people missed it. It's sick how they use film to control the mind rather than freeing it. They sneak it in so well, that kids hold on to the views rather than question. Our government and its leaders are superheroes.

reply to post by timiathan


I became suspicious of Batman, as a symbol, in the 90's. First time I'd ever seen a movie advertised with just a logo on a black background. The cereal: black box with a bat logo on it. Guy I know had 5 unopened boxes on his shelf, and he's lactose intolerant. He was their demographic. A 20-30something male, Coast Guard part-timer, worked administration in a NY hospital...good little consumer. Good little aphid. I realized that this guy made all of his choices just as he'd "chosen" the batman cereal box again and again and again. Stimulus - response. I coined the term "chooser". A slang insult for people who accept without thinking.

I went to see the Dark Knight in the hope that it had been reclaimed by the comic geeks. I hoped it would be more of a Sin City and less of a propagandistic device. I was so wrong it floored me. I am still trying to wrap my mind around the brilliance of the messages woven into this movie. It's a masterpiece. There's so much.

The two-headed coin. Render unto Caesar. The reference to Caesar she makes at dinner. Bush attending the first Olympics ever like a Roman Emperor. The Bat logo now looking like a triangle with hints of a second inverted triangle in it -- but then again like a militaristic medal, like an admiral's wings. The fact that rather than heads or tails the dichotomy becomes object or slightly obscured version of object. The idea of choice versus "something else." What do you do with THAT? The idea that the Joker represents both choice and chaos, which implies that order is the relinquishment of Ego. We think of the alternative to Ego being a God-state....Heaven or whatever. But here we get (and accept) a darker version...again, a subtle shift. Guy with horns and demon wings flying around Gotham "guarding us."

Then of course there's the blatant statement that uber-wealth equals power and freedom. The seriousness of Bruce W. saying, "one fund-raiser from THESE friends and you'll never have to worry about money again." The look is chilling. He's telling the guy, "screw re-election, this trumps that." And sure enough Dent is more afraid of them (the trust-funders) than the mob. Why? Because not only are they outside of the law, they simultaneously control the law. They are the ultimate power -- the secret unseen hand.

The premises this movie is founded on blow me away. It's like herding cats trying to organize it all. I asked a die-hard Batman fan what she thought and she said she didn't like it -- yet she couldn't verbalize why. It's like being molested in your sleep. You know something is wrong but you can't quite put your finger on it. She gave a bunch of reasons that didn't add up. When I said that I felt it was loaded with propaganda I watched some part of her tune in very carefully as though somewhere in her subconscious a huge AHA!!-moment was occurring.

I'm not a conspiracy-theorist. I don't hang out on Jeff Rense's site or any others like it. I'm not a Bush-hater per se since I've never met the guy, though Plimpton 322 admittedly makes me nervous. What I do know is that something is inherently wrong in the world. If you haven't noticed then maybe it's because you aren't supposed to.

We need to stay awake.

I think a lot of the Dark Knight was showing how Batman's actions were problematic, how he crossed lines in troublesome ways that should not have been crossed. The main idea was to not abandon your long held, defining moral codes when fighting an enemy ( I.E., the Constitution defining the moral code of the United States, our single most important document, and it's relation to the "War on Terror"). "Fight not with monsters lest ye become one" idea.

Batman was repeatedly pressed to break his "one rule", that of not killing, even when it would have been easy to do so and would have stopped the Joker. But that was the point of the Joker, to get Batman to break his longstanding moral code and become a killer, a broken symbol of justice. Harvey Dent actually does abandon his moral code of working through the justice system once tragedy befalls him, going off on a streak of revenge murdering anyone connected to his betrayal, and this is shown to have deadly, clearly morally wrong results. All forms of torture are presented as an unsuccessful tactic and dangerous. First, Harvey's alleyway mental torture sequence is stopped by Batman as something dangerous and outside of Harvey's typical honest means of working through the justice system. Once Batman becomes enraged enough to commit torture himself by dropping Maroni off a fire escape for information on the Joker, the effort proves fruitless. Batman is told the same information the Joker presented on the t.v. message; to take off his mask to stop the Joker killings. When Batman loses control, locking himself in the interrogation room to the dismay of Gordon, he beats up the Joker only to have him laughing the entire time. The Joker intentionally switched names to get Batman to kill Rachel by choosing saving her over Harvey (Joker: "killing is making a choice . . . and that's the point, you'll have to choose"). Joker gives Batman the desired (faulty) information because that was his plan the whole time. Once he incites the guard to beat him up, we find that the Joker used this situation to put the guard in a compromised situation, held hostage with a piece of shattered glass Batman caused in the previous scene. Torture is shown to repeatedly fail, and commonly a result of these characters losing control of themselves in fits of rage.

The sonar system is mentioned by Lucius Fox to be clearly wrong. ("This is WRONG." ) Hardly a message of support even if the protagonists end up using it. When they do use it, it only results in the location of the Joker but fails to show the hostages are disguised in the clown masks about to be shot by the impatient SWAT team under Gordon. Batman then has to use the technology against the police who want to rush into the situation without relying on more traditional intelligence gathering to save the hostages from being shot by the Police. Also, the sonar fizzles out and causes the Joker to ambush the blinded Batman, trapping him. So the moral problem is laid out before the sonar is used, and then is shown to also be highly problematic in practical use. Fox resigns, a consequence of the sonar use (real consequences something unseen with the current wiretapping problems in this country), and Batman told Fox to type in his name when he was finished (when the situation was resolved) not telling him what would happen. We learn later this causes the machine to be destroyed. Batman's plan was to ensure the machine was destroyed regardless of Fox's judgment.

What people need to realize is the idea that if your protagonists are doing something clearly wrong, even if your protagonist is a superhero, the story behind them may not be supporting their actions just because they are the protagonist. The story can also be critiquing these actions, or even showing how they fail. Ultimately, I believe the Dark Knight is critiquing many moral choices Batman has made in his fight against the Joker, critiquing the "War on Terror" as well.

Whoever stated this post is right on. Total and complete NWO propiganda w/out a doubt. Everything from Batmans "friends" that can supply the DA with all the cash "he'll ever need" from his "type" of friends. Then the DA goes on to say that the mob dosent scare him 1/2 as much as the people who donate all the huge cash for his future carreer. The message...the mob ant #, we conttrol the mob. Were the ones to be feared. And honestly, I could go on for litterally pages and pages of obvious NWO propiganda (not to mention all the 911 imagary all over the place!!!), but really, if you havent studied this stuff, its just not going to make a whole bunch of sense to you. Basically though through association and fear, one can be controlled. This is what this movie is about. And dont get me wrong, this is a great movie, but sadly, its nothing but NWO propiganda to the hilt. If you dont get it, just think of Batman and all his govt buddies as the NWO, and all the crimials and people are the sheep, and how they must make some "tough choices" inorder to better the world and humanity...Understanding what thier doing just makes me sick. Is anyone else that has studied this kind of stuff starting to get sick of this mind controll/subliminal crap???? How long are we all going to take this for? The facts all lead to one road that goes back to the most ancient of times. Sadly we have all been dominated through propaganda like Batman for thousands of years. This is just the newest and best so far.
Thanks for listning. : ) peace.

You guys are stuck to the script too much and believe thats the anagram of reality. In reality, (it could really be that) Bush (as Batman) who creates terror (the joker). Don't stick to the facts of a film and concur it's 100% true...remember, there are some details that can't be explained and some that can't be trusted.

Somehow my post was deleted from this thread. Either that, or there are two identical threads wandering about so let me just make this short and sweet.

You must have missed the end of the movie. Lucius Fox [Morgan Freeman] logged out of the massive sonar program and the entire system was self destructed after they caught the Joker.

Let me also remind you that this movie is the work of science fiction. Don't go saying "NWO PROPAGANDA!!" just because they show science fiction military technology. Is it NWO propaganda when he cuts a bullet impact out of a concrete wall and pretends to scavenge a finger print by re-constructing the bullet? No. It is just an awesome movie. Were the crazy technology concepts of the original batman movies NWO propaganda?

It's no secret they are listening to your phone calls, and listening to your conversations while your phone is off. It's no secret they can turn on your web cam and have a peek at who is behind the keyboard. It's also no secret that they have satellites roaming the skies that can peer in your windows. I'm really sorry that you turned this brilliant movie masterpiece into a 'tool of propaganda' merely because they show some awesome concept of technology. I really hope this didn't ruin the movie for you or anyone else and would sincerely recommend the Blu-Ray.

It's a movie.

Jeeeeeeeeez.

This is beyond stupid.

Movies are allowed to go where the script takes them.

It's a script. Batman had to do whatever he needed to to defeat the Joker. He was taken down to the Jokers level. That's what the whole movie was leading up to.

It is definitely a pro-Bush film.

But that's rare in Hollywood.

Trust me, at the end of the day, it's a beautiful movie and it's really the Jokers movie. It ought to be called Joker Returns.

Heath Ledger, boy what an impressive job. Such a tragedy.

Batman can't be Bush in the movie because Batman didn't kill a single person. The Iraq Ministry of Health has stated 151,000 of its citizens have died violently as a direct result of the U.S. initiated war on its country. That list doesn't include wounded. Nor is it a record of how many have died in Afghanistan. Also the eavesdropping machine was destroyed at the end. Not kept online permanently. So any idea that any NWO would use this movie as a vehicle for their own propaganda seems a bit off to me.

A more apt comparison of any NWO ideas being placed upon the public would be the movie Team America: World Police in which the protagonists willfully destroy cities without regard for the consequences yet use their own self-righteousness against a foe as an excuse for their actions.

Also the movie An American Carol goes with the idea that questioning authority during a time of war is wrong.

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Frith]

This is a good thought. However, Hollywood likes to check into what people are talking about to make a movie more appealing to a crowd.

The writers who write all these scripts are as ingenius as they are crafty. It would be hard to say that they would intentionally put things in a plot to numb us or give us a glimps of what might happen, but given how much backing conspiracys have in a global forum, they would be goot to entertwine into a storyboard (see Nation Treasure or movies like that).

I'm not sure if it's a known conspiracy if it is one at all. Gone in 60 Seconds was a great car movie with many theft scenes, Ocean's 11 was a great crook movie. They would hire people to explain how they'd over come that objective.

It is posible, but I don't think it's as probable as it may seem. I think hollywood writers are just stating that out technology is as much a bad thing as a good and showing how it could be used against us.

And symbolism (as far as saying this person acted like Bush or whatever), it is a template that can be put anywhere.