Compair and Contrast: (Urantia Papers and Terra Papers)

while you're at it why don't you throw in the "Alien Interview" historical text tha the alien talks about.

the conflict between the "Old Empire" and "The Domain" etc...

it definitely falls within these lines.

-

Originally posted by Incarnated
Here is a link to the text online.

Thank you It makes it so much easier when you have then downloaded

But you took so long to answer I found them here...

www.truthbook.com...



With DownloadThemAll plug in on Firefox it's not so bad

So Now where is this "Alien Interview"? I have five terabytes to play with

"NEED INPUT" - Johnny Five

[edit on 24-7-2008 by zorgon]

I have the Alien Interview in PDF form on my computer but don't know how to post it as a link - otherwise it is available for $5 to download now from the Editors site (alieninterview.org) instead - I can email my copy to someone to post if they know how -

I find it a very interesting read for sure and find it parallels the Terra Papers nicely -

I love the idea of substituting names in Urantia, like Bush - too funny! Actually it's what I mentally substitute when I look at the bible now - is aliens for angels and god, then it makes a lot more sense.

But I still say the Urantia is too religious - male Father God??? I started out my search for knowledge forty years ago with a premise that Creator of All That Is must be both male and female - not one or the other. 'Existance' does not have a gender. So when it is put in male terms, it again wreaks of the bible which I believe is full of errors and again, in my opinion, loses credibility on that basis.

I do not agree that God is male and Jesus was exactly as portrayed, etc. It's just not substantiated - I do not agree that Jesus 'in fact' existed. Not as is portrayed - not as the only begotten son of god, etc. just doesn't make sense. It was only a few hundred years ago in comparison to thousands of prior history that the Terra Papers refers to - pre 'bible' and religion.

Religion isn't something from God - its something to herd people into a common belief (actually a 'cult' is people sharing a common belief, which qualifies the churches as a cult) created by ? to divide and manipulate us. Works well, don't you think?

Originally posted by kshaund
I have the Alien Interview in PDF form on my computer but don't know how to post it as a link - otherwise it is available for $5 to download now from the Editors site (alieninterview.org) instead - I can email my copy to someone to post if they know how -

I find it a very interesting read for sure and find it parallels the Terra Papers nicely -

I love the idea of substituting names in Urantia, like Bush - too funny! Actually it's what I mentally substitute when I look at the bible now - is aliens for angels and god, then it makes a lot more sense.

But I still say the Urantia is too religious - male Father God??? I started out my search for knowledge forty years ago with a premise that Creator of All That Is must be both male and female - not one or the other. 'Existance' does not have a gender. So when it is put in male terms, it again wreaks of the bible which I believe is full of errors and again, in my opinion, loses credibility on that basis.

I do not agree that God is male and Jesus was exactly as portrayed, etc. It's just not substantiated - I do not agree that Jesus 'in fact' existed. Not as is portrayed - not as the only begotten son of god, etc. just doesn't make sense. It was only a few hundred years ago in comparison to thousands of prior history that the Terra Papers refers to - pre 'bible' and religion.

Religion isn't something from God - its something to herd people into a common belief (actually a 'cult' is people sharing a common belief, which qualifies the churches as a cult) created by ? to divide and manipulate us. Works well, don't you think?

well a young civilization just learning to become "space worthy" .. would indeed need to be "divided" on all levels... in order to overcome that and "unite" AND APPRECIATE that "unity" to the fullest extent.

cant really appreciate something you have been deprived of... just look at little spoiled rich kids.

i think it's manipulative and devicive to divide us with skin color (genetics) .. language, and religion... but i think it's our job to repair those crevices and unite on all those levels... which.. if you look around you... everybody's interbreeding.. everybody's learning English or Chinese.. and the religions are being taken "down" one by one... Islam being the first.

so however harsh the solutions seem.. they're being undertaken.

-

Originally posted by kidflash2008
"The Terra Papers" seem to be taken from Von Daniken, Zecharia Sitchin, and George Lucas (his Death Star makes a guest appearance). I did not read 'The Urantia Papers", but they seem to be a from of Christian dogma and Scientology.

Actually, the Terra Papers predate Star Wars by 2 years. George Lucas actually consulted the Indian tribe where the papers came from to get material for his new project.

Originally posted by uva3021
But spirits, ghosts, the superpersonal, or the infinite are nonexistent or unattainable on Urantia itself

That's a Gross Error in understanding. All you have to do is read paper 77 the midway creatures to read all about the "spiriual" landscape of Urantia.

Originally posted by zorgon
"NEED INPUT" - Johnny Five

Originally posted by kshaund
But I still say the Urantia is too religious - male Father God???

It's very clear you didn't even read the book with this error. This error is a personalized bias you've put over your own eyes to blind you from seeing the real world. It never said the top God of the urantia book was a male father God. It said that is the way the time space creatures come to see God on such planets as ours.

If you didn't want to see the real statements made in the book, why did you bother to skim over the book looking for your "error" that shows you live in error?

Originally posted by Incarnated

Originally posted by uva3021
But spirits, ghosts, the superpersonal, or the infinite are nonexistent or unattainable on Urantia itself

That's a Gross Error in understanding. All you have to do is read paper 77 the midway creatures to read all about the "spiriual" landscape of Urantia.

Originally posted by zorgon
"NEED INPUT" - Johnny Five

Originally posted by kshaund
But I still say the Urantia is too religious - male Father God???

It's very clear you didn't even read the book with this error. This error is a personalized bias you've put over your own eyes to blind you from seeing the real world. It never said the top God of the urantia book was a male father God. It said that is the way the time space creatures come to see God on such planets as ours.

If you didn't want to see the real statements made in the book, why did you bother to skim over the book looking for your "error" that shows you live in error?

Making a judgment is not an 'error'. It is a personal choice. I don't need to read all the statements in 2100 pages to decide I'm not dedicating a week of my life to it, which is why I never read it before (I now recall after skimming through the pages) - I question the bible in the FIRST place, so the Urantia coming along in support of the bible story except adding brand new names never before mentioned in history and I get warning flags.

It is easy for me to see how people who have had belief in the bible would very much enjoy Urantia. I'm just not of that persuasion and if I read the book cover to cover would still not be because I don't buy the premise in the first place.

I prefer physical history because I don't want to risk losing my time in pursuit of my real way 'out of here' and am too cynical to believe good reigns supreme 'out there' - as above so below - and below (here) there is treachery everywhere and good people get run over by anyone without a spiritual core.

Any culture, terrestrial or not, that speaks of Father God just like the Bible does, is still spouting a 'side' of religion. That is my point I am trying to make. And I personally don't buy into religion of any form, regardless of where. Spirituality? Absolutely! But anything couched in a framework such as the Urantia in supporting the Bible, as I said before, I have to give it less credibility that written history.

I do not believe the bible as written, so when the Urantia relates to it, I indeed tune out. We have to have filters for our own truths, don't we? It's not an error to not buy into Urantia as you seem to assert, it's a choice.

Urantia is the only place I've ever seen such names, and asked before if anyone has seen them in our history anywhere? Ea and Enlil, on the other hand, do indeed appear throughout several histories and as I said before, if they are the 'God' in the Bible, then that makes either the Urantia completely wrong, or written histories completely wrong, doesn't it? Because Urantia doesn't mention brothers coming to earth and creating man (Adam - Adamus as Terra Papers explains), then it's not including that as even part of our history.

So who's right? And why? I say Terra Papers again because it has information in it that anyone can substantiate for themselves if they will do some research.

Can that be done with the Urantia (honest question here, because I would like to know if ANYTHING Urantia speaks of can be shown in any culture's history - aside from the Bible which hasn't been substantiated after hundreds of years).

In my world, there is no 'father god' - there is Creator of All That Is, period. Existance is without gender and does not need one to be referred to. Ra turned female religion into male religion (well documented) and the bible came well after that time, so to me Urantia cannot be based on real history and again, I throw out there as a thought, what if it was created by hundreds of years of feverent praying by people who believe in the bible and this was the result? Creating reality? Hmm? Zorgon! What's your take on that idea?

Originally posted by Psychopump

Originally posted by kidflash2008
"The Terra Papers" seem to be taken from Von Daniken, Zecharia Sitchin, and George Lucas (his Death Star makes a guest appearance). I did not read 'The Urantia Papers", but they seem to be a from of Christian dogma and Scientology.

Actually, the Terra Papers predate Star Wars by 2 years. George Lucas actually consulted the Indian tribe where the papers came from to get material for his new project.

Hey Psychopump - how do you know Lucas spoke to the tribe? I haven't heard that one before

I think one of the interesting papers in Urantia is where Jesus pulls Nathaniel aside to talk to him about the "Scriptures".

Paper 159 - See section 4

He tells him that the others are not ready to understand that the 'Scriptures' they revere are simply works of man and often aren't even written by the people whose names they bear.

He says they have been perverted and corrupted and used to control the people by telling them that the Bible is the divine, literal, infallible Word of God. He says they are withholding the truth and that God would never tell a man to go kill someone else for his beliefs.

Today a lot of fundamentalists still believe that the Bible is complete and infallible, despite the fact that it was pieced together at Nicea to paint a picture of what the 'Church' wanted it to say at the time.

Originally posted by kshaund
I have the Alien Interview in PDF form on my computer but don't know how to post it as a link... I can email my copy to someone to post if they know how -

[email protected] My email handles 20meg files but most can't send more than 3 megs... If its bigger send it by YouSendIt its free and has up to 100megs

I can post it on my site with the Terra papers

Originally posted by Incarnated

Originally posted by zorgon
"NEED INPUT" - Johnny Five

Obviously you haven't seen the movie... no bother...

What I mean is I have 5 terabytes of space for data collection...
This 'space' is non biased and nature abhors a vacuum...

When I read your posts I get the impression you are a Priest of Urantia... however your recent posts commenting on people's 'errors' as they voice their evaluation sends up red flags...

There are many people who can skim material and accurately make an assessment of a paper... a good example is in the bible... there are so many "Lo and beholds" and other fluff in there it is easy to get 'just the facts' in a quick skimming

And any good book has to get your attention in the summary at the beginning... no one will sit and read that much material if the first section does not get the point across...

In that sense the bible does okay... there IS a lot of action in Genesis

My only question on that is why no one will ever answer my question on how many animals got on the boat

Originally posted by emsed1
I think one of the interesting papers in Urantia is where Jesus pulls Nathaniel aside to talk to him about the "Scriptures".

Paper 159 - See section 4

He tells him that the others are not ready to understand that the 'Scriptures' they revere are simply works of man and often aren't even written by the people whose names they bear.

He says they have been perverted and corrupted and used to control the people by telling them that the Bible is the divine, literal, infallible Word of God. He says they are withholding the truth and that God would never tell a man to go kill someone else for his beliefs.

Today a lot of fundamentalists still believe that the Bible is complete and infallible, despite the fact that it was pieced together at Nicea to paint a picture of what the 'Church' wanted it to say at the time.

And your point? That the Urantia provides all these stories doesn't make it authentic - which is the question, I believe - and again I ask (Incarnanted?) are the names in Urantia anywhere in our history? Even once, anywhere?

Hey Zorgon - nice to see you
I sent the Alien Interview to your email - good luck! It's 300 pages (half is Editors Notes to her statements)

I thought you knew how many animals went on the ark! Two ...
each... I actually think they were in testtubes and not in the flesh -

Is that blasphemous? OoOops.....

Again, I also wonder if the source of the Urantia is actually the manifestation of prayers - it would explain everything (to me) as to why it is so similar to the Bible and has new names (made up based on ?) and a slightly different twist on things.

This is purely speculative on my part, but I think it is a genuine question - could that be? The channeled Urantia is an advanced thought form created by people in the first place?

However, it has also been a few days and Incarnated hasn't made an appearance (though it is the weekend ) but I truly would like to know how people view this?

I have read the Urantia Book years ago. It just doesn't sit right with me somehow. For one thing, it seems too "Christian" to me. One problem I have with it is the concept of "thought adjuster" or whatever it's called. I can't see anyone wishing to cease to exist. It's my believe that our spirits are eternal. I had the book and it's a massive tome!

The Terra Papers feel closer to home to me. It is more mundane and not spiritual (to me). It doesn't have many religious terms. I feel that it does present some truth to our history.

Interesting thread OP!

I read the Terra papers but now just getting around to reading the Urantia Papers.

I believe there is a lot of truth in scriptures (hebrew, revelations...and so on). That there is a lot of truth in these stories passed down. But along the way the "darkness" got involved in swaying the truth and trying to make a wrong seem right and a right seem wrong.

I also think mistranslation is also the case when some gaps in the stories are noted (like with the Terra papers). But eventually there will be people who put all of this together and speak the truth...sort of like this thread

I keep checking back here to see if the OP has replied to thread she started - but alas - no -


If simple questions about the Urantia cannot be answered, and simple questions about the Terra Papers can....

Again I ask - can any of the Urantia be shown substantiated anywhere in our history? (I'm guessing the answer wil be 'no')

If it can't be substantiated even in the slightest, why give it credibility AT ALL? That's how easy it is to lead the masses down any rabbit hole - give them a big book and just sit back and watch -

As a proponent of The Terra Papers, but one who has only read excerpts of the Urantia book(s?), I will only address that which I know as a comparison...

I noted in one post (but have not read all posts in this tread, so this may have been addressed), the Terra Papers is NOT a "channeling," OOBE information, or information given in an abduction. It is a recounting of what was given directly to the Hopi by a (presumed) Blue who was rescued in 1947 from a UFO crash - before the military showed up to eliminate evidence.

Since the Urantia stuff is "channeled," I tend to give it less weight, since it is conceivable that it was "manufactured" and delivered by some technology, such as V2K (Voice to sKull).

To say that the Papers are "one man's story" is a bit disingenuous, given that elements of it show up in Star Wars, and George Lucas was mentored by Joseph Campbell who spent time with the Hopi, learning their "myths." And likely their story of Bek'Ti and what (he? she? it?) taught them made its way to Lucas (The Terra Papers predates Star Wars...) via Campbell.

So we might presume there are others who would tell the same story as Robert Morning Sky.

As for the Papers' "roughness," remember that what you see is a paper written for a college course, typed on a manual typewriter, by one who was both young and not a professional writer. (To assist in following the story, I diligently compiled a glossary, found (twice - because of issues with editing tags) here: www.abovetopsecret.com... .)

My personal belief is that the Papers represent the closest to the truth of our planet's history as we have access to.

One last point about the Papers... As I read it, I could tell that a great deal of information was left out. I could feel that there was a great deal more that could have been said, but because Morning Sky was allowed only to address things that were already "out there" (specifically, Von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods), he was constrained in what he could offer.

He had to petition the Hopi Elders for permission to write what he did, as Bek'Ti gave the information to the Hopi in trust, as thanks for nursing (him/her/it) back to health and hiding (his/her/it) from the military when they swooped in shortly after the rescue. The information was to remain secret to all but a few - until it came out elsewhere.

That's my personal take. Your Universe may differ.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by Incarnated

 

"The Terra Papers" seem to be taken from Von Daniken, Zecharia Sitchin, and George Lucas (his Death Star makes a guest appearance). I did not read 'The Urantia Papers", but they seem to be a from of Christian dogma and Scientology.

The Terra Papers predates Star Wars and Sitchen, and was only allowed to be released by the Hopi Elders because of Von D's work entering the public domain. Von D came to his conclusions through research, and the fact that the Papers support much of what he wrote only goes to show that information out there DO support the Papers...

Originally posted by MockedUnicorn
While i havent read the Urantia book, I read the Terra Papers last friday and i have to say.......

......it sounds to me like a completely made up work of fiction.

The author stretches the origins and meanings of words and names in a way that even someone with basic knowledge of origins of words would see that its complete nonsense.

Interesting... Aside from the fact that Morning Sky did a great deal of research into word origins (and I will admit I found one word I think he did a bit of reaching on), I have had a great interest in etymology, and could easily see the relationships he offered. "Eridu" can easily be seen to have changed through usage to "Earth..." As one example.

The entire work is supposedly from an oral story told by an alien grey to a tribe of native americans, yet it is very precisely detailed in a way that doesnt hint at an oral story.

Nope. A Blue. And it was not oral. It was offered holographically.

The entire story seems so contrived that i have a hard time believing a single word of it. ......

I admit that I rolled my eyes in the initial pages, but once I got to the end, and found that ALL my WHYs in this Universe were answered in that paradigm, I could not discount the initial information - which from an "alien agnostic" paradigm had the eyes rolling.

.....although i wish that SOMEONE would be able to come out with some proof of ETs...

With a concerted effort involving the military to remove all evidence...this will be difficult. And with the MSM not reporting (as a rule) any details on national news broadcasts, the information is effectively lost on the overall populace. (Local stations will periodically have testimony on, but approach it with derision usually, and then it disappears into the information black hole.)

ps. Whoever said that about the L ron Hubbard movie thing, i agree. For some reason, i kept thinking about battlefield earth.

That comment was relative to the Urantia work, not the Papers. Still... What did Hubbard know...?