The Dark Knight Social Commentary

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
Does the comissioner have a choice in leaving the Joker in a room with Batman to be un-lawfully beaten? Yes, but he chooses the easiest and most brutal way of getting the information he desperately needs at the time.

actually, Gordon saw him put the chair there and ran to the door, indicating he wasn't going to let him do as he pleased with The Joker.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage

I'm not sure what I think of the boat scene, part of me is more inclined to think they would have blown each other to bits.

one of the more predictable scenes in the movie (the others were easily assumed if you know batman lore - Gordon becoming commissioner (instead of the fate he suffered midway thru the film) and Dent being rescued at the end and Rachel getting the very short end of the stick (how else do we get to Two Face?)

reply to post by Essan


Hmm, guess you failt to realise two things:

A) it's a film.

B) satire is evident in many mediums.

reply to post by Crakeur


actually, Gordon saw him put the chair there and ran to the door, indicating he wasn't going to let him do as he pleased with The Joker.

He allows him to beat him in the first place was my point. He deliberately leaves the room, defends Batman’s actions, and only goes in to break it up when it goes farther than it should, trouble is it went too far the minute he left the room.

I’m no Batman expert though I enjoy the fandom, so those other things were a surprise to me, other than Gordon becoming the commissioner. I didn’t notice Dent’s coin or name being that of the villain Two-Face until he became Two-Face.


[edit on 22-7-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Look, Its obvious that TDK is a Pro-Bush allegory of the Bush Presidnency. Obama is represented by Dent, and Mccain is represented by gordon.

Bush is the anti-hero, the guy noone likes who does whatever it takes to keep his city (the usa) safe. He spies on its citizens, violates thier civil liberites, and scares the living crap out of them to keep them on the straight and level. He wont go so far as to outright torture someone, but he will scare the # out of them and give them a minor beatdown. But he wont let the "white knight" (Dent/obama) or the Cop (Gordon/Mccain) get thier hands too dirty, because he doesnt want them to be seen as the same as himself. When the (white knight) is shown to finally be too weak to handle the cost of his heroism Batman (bush) takes the fall for his and others crimes, giving the people someone to hate voluntarily, in order to ensure the job gets done. The joker is representative of terrosim of all kinds and the ultimately nihilistic mindset that creates terroists. He is unpredictable, he cant be bribed, and in the end you cant beat him without becoming a monster yopurself. But Batman (bush) is the one man willing to become the villian in order to save Gotham (the world)

Its all so obvious.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


Look, Its obvious that TDK is a Pro-Bush allegory of the Bush Presidnency.

I didn't see that at all, it doesn't seem pro anything, which is why I like it.

Like the moral/ethical situations I stated, no one in the film makes it clear the things the characters do are good or bad. No one justifies or unjustified most of the actions.

The only seen where morals are hit upon hard is the boat scene.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

 

Look, Its obvious that TDK is a Pro-Bush allegory of the Bush Presidnency.

I didn't see that at all, it doesn't seem pro anything, which is why I like it.

Like the moral/ethical situations I stated, no one in the film makes it clear the things the characters do are good or bad. No one justifies or unjustified most of the actions.

The only seen where morals are hit upon hard is the boat scene.

Thats funny, cause the movie seemed pretty pro-batman and anti-joker to me.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


Yes but the Joker wasn't the only one doing immoral or unethical acts, he was simply the central force putting them into play.

I think the main message was to bring up the old question of "When fighting a monster do you become one yourself?" I believe such a statement was brought up in the film as well. And with Dent's transformation that seems like the more logical point the film is trying to get us to question.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

 

Yes but the Joker wasn't the only one doing immoral or unethical acts, he was simply the central force putting them into play.

I think the main message was to bring up the old question of "When fighting a monster do you become one yourself?" I believe such a statement was brought up in the film as well. And with Dent's transformation that seems like the more logical point the film is trying to get us to question.

really? Because to me the questionw as more "what type of monster will you become in order to fight the monster" Dent traied to fight them without becoming one himself and failed. Batman won by becoming the monster that was necessary. I think one of the themes the movie was hitting on was that its not possible to fight monsters wihtout being changed, but it is posible ot control exactly what type of monster you become.
Again in many ways I see it as allegory for the Bush administration, DOing extremely unpopular things that make you hated because noone else is willing to pay the cost.

you're both saying, more or less, the same thing. I do think you can find similarities between the movie and politics but I think you are taking them too far when you start comparing Obama to Dent. The movie was written well before Obama became the Democratic hopefull that he now is. Hell, a year ago, people were barely aware of him.

Originally posted by Crakeur
you're both saying, more or less, the same thing. I do think you can find similarities between the movie and politics but I think you are taking them too far when you start comparing Obama to Dent. The movie was written well before Obama became the Democratic hopefull that he now is. Hell, a year ago, people were barely aware of him.

Even better. That means two-face is Kerry. WHich actualyl makes more sense.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


wouldn't kerry be horse face?

sorry, I couldn't let that one pass me by

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed



"what type of monster will you become in order to fight the monster"

No, because Dent was not previously a monster, the other definition is more fitting. He was Gotham’s “White Light”.

Batman won by becoming the monster that was necessary.

Batman didn’t win, he didn’t loose either. He caught the joker, but lost people he loved and huge bits of himself. In saving the people he betrayed them and also had to lie to them. The film had no winner. If anything the Joker won, he gained more than anyone else did, including making Dent a monster.

Bush administration

Depends on if you think what Bush does is in the best interest of the people. I don’t think any of the characters represented political figures, simply political ideals played into their character development and the way their character was used in the story.

All in all every person interprets it differently.

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke


Your post really saddens me. All humans are animals and just because these people are criminals doesn't mean you have the right to go around treating them cruelly (unless, of course, you're the Dark Knight).
As far as your government comments go.....oh really? If you honestly think that then....well, you should definitely get out more and open your mind a little. Governments, in general, do not give a flying fantastic hoot about you or your well-being. You are nothing more than fodder for their conflicts.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

 

"what type of monster will you become in order to fight the monster"

No, because Dent was not previously a monster, the other definition is more fitting. He was Gotham’s “White Light”.

Which is why he failed. He wanted to take on guys like the joker legally, untill they took something he cared about. At that moment he decided to become a monster to save his love. Even though The Batman stopped him there, the decision to become a monster was made, he just let the joker decide which type of monster he became. Batman on the hand, chose to be the monster he is.

Only the supporting cast, those who dont fight on the front lines themselves were able to retain thier humanity. IE Alfred, Lucius and Gordon.

Batman didn’t win, he didn’t loose either. He caught the joker, but lost people he loved and huge bits of himself. In saving the people he betrayed them and also had to lie to them. The film had no winner. If anything the Joker won, he gained more than anyone else did, including making Dent a monster.

Of course Batman won. He stopped the joker, saved the city (even from thier own crisis of faith) He had to betray the people in order to save them.Thats the whole point, the nice guys dont win the war. They just become casualities. Its the self made monsters who do what the people dont that let them sleep easy in thier beds.


Oh and more evidence for ther "bush is Batman" interpertation.
Batman hides his tue face by pretending to be stupid, uninformed, and to sleep through important meeting. Sound like the perception of anyone in politics you ever heard of?

[edit on 7/22/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

[edit on 7/22/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

 

wouldn't kerry be horse face?

sorry, I couldn't let that one pass me by

Well, Flip-flopper, two-face. Its a pretty close analogy.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


Batman hides his tue face by pretending

Again, this can only be concluded is you view Bush as pretending. This is your own view of Bush mixed with your interpretation of the film, fine with me.

Of course Batman won.

Well I guess that is your interpretation of it. I’m just saying I personally don’t feel he won in a sense of winning over the bad guy.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


Only the supporting cast, those who dont fight on the front lines themselves were able to retain thier humanity. IE Alfred, Lucius and Gordon.

I agree with you there, but I think the film kind of pin points that they kept their humanity at a cost.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage


Again, this can only be concluded is you view Bush as pretending. This is your own view of Bush mixed with your interpretation of the film, fine with me.

You ever heard any of bush's seeche from his first, (unsuccessful) run at Governor? He sounded like the Ive League educated businessman he is. The second time? He sounded like the good old boy we all know today, ridiculous speech patterns and all.
Now, either bush got a partial lobotomy, or he decided it was better to present himself as an earnest, if tragically uneloquent man, than as a slick talking easterner.

Of course Batman won.

Well I guess that is your interpretation of it. I’m just saying I personally don’t feel he won in a sense of winning over the bad guy.

Bad guys in jail, people are alive, city is saved. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


Bad guys in jail, people are alive, city is saved.

Plenty of bad guys, including the mob, left to stir the pot.

Many people died. I don't think those alive balance the situation out.

The city is saved, yes, for that day and yet it will never be the same after what the Joker did, neither will the society that inhabits it. As is the case when terrorist successfully commit disasterous acts.

You do know batman is not a "real" superhero dont you?

He doesnt have super powers only super wealth.

He is the elites superhero lol.

That said he is still my fav superhero.