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Are you a female Freemason?
page: 1share:
We read a lot about male freemasons but I'd like to hear from females who are freemasons and their perspective?
Are you a female freemason? What is your perspective on Freemasonary? Why did you join? What do you think Freemasonary has to offer to women/young women? Do you see your role as a Freemason as different to males Freemasons or not?
Thanks in advance for any replies from Females Freemasons.
Also, if you are not already a Freemason (but you are a woman) would you be interested in joining? Do you think Freemasonary appeals to women? Or have you any comments on women in Freemasonary.
www.owf.org.uk...
www.womenfreemasonsusa.com...
www.google.com... ions/Fraternal/Freemasonry/Women's_and_Mixed_Freemasonry/
www.womenfreemasonsusa.com...
www.bessel.org...
www.mason.be...www.hfaf.org...
[edit on 19-7-2008 by UFOpsychiczebra]
[edit on 19-7-2008 by UFOpsychiczebra]
Are you a female freemason? What is your perspective on Freemasonary? Why did you join? What do you think Freemasonary has to offer to women/young women? Do you see your role as a Freemason as different to males Freemasons or not?
Thanks in advance for any replies from Females Freemasons.
Also, if you are not already a Freemason (but you are a woman) would you be interested in joining? Do you think Freemasonary appeals to women? Or have you any comments on women in Freemasonary.
www.owf.org.uk...
www.womenfreemasonsusa.com...
www.google.com... ions/Fraternal/Freemasonry/Women's_and_Mixed_Freemasonry/
www.womenfreemasonsusa.com...
www.bessel.org...
www.mason.be...www.hfaf.org...
[edit on 19-7-2008 by UFOpsychiczebra]
[edit on 19-7-2008 by UFOpsychiczebra]
I just wanted to pop in here and clarify. Theoretically, women cannot become Freemasons, as Freemasonry is explicitly a fraternal order - i.e. a
brotherhood, men only.
Wikipedia
From the official site of the Freemasons of California:
Not trying to knock your thread here at all... I just think it is important to clarify that "officially" women cannot be Freemasons. There are Masonic groups that do allow women, but they are generally outside of the organization generally known as Freemasonry.
From the Grand Lodge of British Columbia:
Traditionally, only men can be made Freemasons in Regular Freemasonry. Many Grand Lodges do not admit women because they believe it would break the ancient Masonic Landmarks. However, there are many non-mainstream Masonic bodies that do admit both men and women or exclusively women.
Wikipedia
From the official site of the Freemasons of California:
Membership is open to men age 18 and older who believe in a Supreme Being and meet the qualifications and standards. Men of all ethnic and religious backgrounds are welcome.
Not trying to knock your thread here at all... I just think it is important to clarify that "officially" women cannot be Freemasons. There are Masonic groups that do allow women, but they are generally outside of the organization generally known as Freemasonry.
From the Grand Lodge of British Columbia:
he Grand Lodge of British Columbia does not recognize as regular Freemasonry any self-styled body that initiates women. That said, there are several organizations calling themselves Freemasonry that do initiate women.
Actually you're wrong.
www.owf.org.uk...
www.womenfreemasonsusa.com...
www.google.com... ions/Fraternal/Freemasonry/Women's_and_Mixed_Freemasonry/
www.womenfreemasonsusa.com...
www.bessel.org...
www.mason.be...www.hfaf.org...
[edit on 19-7-2008 by UFOpsychiczebra]
www.owf.org.uk...
www.womenfreemasonsusa.com...
www.google.com... ions/Fraternal/Freemasonry/Women's_and_Mixed_Freemasonry/
www.womenfreemasonsusa.com...
www.bessel.org...
www.mason.be...www.hfaf.org...
[edit on 19-7-2008 by UFOpsychiczebra]
reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra
Sorry but talk to any true hardcore Freemason..and women are NOT part of the brotherhood, and will never be. Just like minorities. You can look up anything you want online..but if ever getting the chance to see a blue room meeting..and you WILL NOT..see a female in there...EVER...
I know it may ruffle your feathers and contradict the things you read and see...I'm just going by my experiance over the past 10 years...its still a MEN only (and whites only) type originization....its just the way it is....
Sorry but talk to any true hardcore Freemason..and women are NOT part of the brotherhood, and will never be. Just like minorities. You can look up anything you want online..but if ever getting the chance to see a blue room meeting..and you WILL NOT..see a female in there...EVER...
I know it may ruffle your feathers and contradict the things you read and see...I'm just going by my experiance over the past 10 years...its still a MEN only (and whites only) type originization....its just the way it is....
There are masonic organizations for women, such as Eastern Star for adults and Job's Daughters for girls. They both hold their meetings at masonic
lodges/temples, and use the same room. However, it is not the same thing.
reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra
Actually, the poster your responding to is quite right. There can not be, at this point in time, any recognized women freemason - and I do not think it will change any time soon. There are orders which practice the masonic rites which involve men and women, but they are not recognized by the mainstream male freemasons and we are forbidden to have masonic relations with them. This is a matter of varying dispute within recognized freemasonry, but again, I seriously doubt it will change in my lifetime.
A women (or man, in some rites) in co-masonry, LDH, or any of the other orders are not masons by the defintiion which mainstream masons use. They are irregular or clandestine masons. They exist because as masons have discussed before we don't stop anyone from proclaiming they are masons, and we never will.
That is just my opinion, but I'm comfortable saying it reflects the vast majority of regular masons.
Actually, the poster your responding to is quite right. There can not be, at this point in time, any recognized women freemason - and I do not think it will change any time soon. There are orders which practice the masonic rites which involve men and women, but they are not recognized by the mainstream male freemasons and we are forbidden to have masonic relations with them. This is a matter of varying dispute within recognized freemasonry, but again, I seriously doubt it will change in my lifetime.
A women (or man, in some rites) in co-masonry, LDH, or any of the other orders are not masons by the defintiion which mainstream masons use. They are irregular or clandestine masons. They exist because as masons have discussed before we don't stop anyone from proclaiming they are masons, and we never will.
That is just my opinion, but I'm comfortable saying it reflects the vast majority of regular masons.
Any blue lodge that admits women is considered irregular and clandestine, regular masonry does not recognise them any more then if you got a bunch of
friends together and called yourselves "masons".......the Eastern Star is the appendant body for women.
This is the same old let's let girls in the boys scouts, and girls in the girl scouts thing. It just would change the purpose completely of trying to build better "men"....and men's roles in their community.....This is a fraternal order.
This is the same old let's let girls in the boys scouts, and girls in the girl scouts thing. It just would change the purpose completely of trying to build better "men"....and men's roles in their community.....This is a fraternal order.
reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra
A bit of support for you UFOpsychiczebra, although it's not much and it is continuing the thread derailment for which I apologize.
There are three types of masonic organizations for women, they are not the same but get mixed up a lot.
1. Eastern Star, Jobs Daughters etc. These are quasi-masonic organizations - regarded as part of the masonic "family" of organizations in the US (but quite irregular in many other parts of the world). Members of such organizations are not freemasons in any sense of the term - the rituals are quite different.
2. Co-Masonry. This is mixed masonry (obviously includes women by definition ) and is a highly irregular form of freemasonry. These organizations practice the first three degrees of Blue/Craft masonry and I believe have their own equivalents of Appendent Orders.
3. Womens Freemasonry. This is, again, irregular masonry as (has been stated earlier) women cannot be masons by any Regular standards. They use identical ritual to their male equivalents and certainly have a parallel series of appendent orders available to its members. However the UGLE in a statement of 10th March 1999, acknowledged the regularity and sincerity of women’s Freemasonry although they do not officially recognize it and their members cannot take part.
The two organizations in question are the OWF (linked in your initial post) and the HFAF.
Co-masonry is more widely known in the US but women-only freemasonry exists only in very small numbers. I suspect this is because of the relative popularity of the Eastern Star.
I think it is fairest to say that Women-only freemasonry as practiced by the OWF and HFAF is most certainly freemasonry, but irregular from the perspective of traditional Regular Freemasonry.
My personal view of all irregular freemasons, in fact anyone who thinks they are a freemason, is to accord them the courtesy of treating them as such. In practical terms it doesn't make a lot of difference as "secrets" are never discussed outside of the lodge room and I'm never going to be entering a lodge room with an irregular mason. But I can tell you that I have met many freemasons, male and female, who are irregular by my standards but are the finest people you would wish to associate with, and highly knowledgeable about freemasonry itself.
Hope this helps UFOpsychiczebra - this is an emotive subject for many freemasons. I apologize for continuing the thread derailment and I hope a women freemason comes along soon to answer your questions.
A bit of support for you UFOpsychiczebra, although it's not much and it is continuing the thread derailment for which I apologize.
There are three types of masonic organizations for women, they are not the same but get mixed up a lot.
1. Eastern Star, Jobs Daughters etc. These are quasi-masonic organizations - regarded as part of the masonic "family" of organizations in the US (but quite irregular in many other parts of the world). Members of such organizations are not freemasons in any sense of the term - the rituals are quite different.
2. Co-Masonry. This is mixed masonry (obviously includes women by definition ) and is a highly irregular form of freemasonry. These organizations practice the first three degrees of Blue/Craft masonry and I believe have their own equivalents of Appendent Orders.
3. Womens Freemasonry. This is, again, irregular masonry as (has been stated earlier) women cannot be masons by any Regular standards. They use identical ritual to their male equivalents and certainly have a parallel series of appendent orders available to its members. However the UGLE in a statement of 10th March 1999, acknowledged the regularity and sincerity of women’s Freemasonry although they do not officially recognize it and their members cannot take part.
The United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE), and others concordant in that regular tradition, do not formally recognize any Masonic body that accepts women. The UGLE has stated since 1998 that two English women's jurisdictions are regular in practice, except for their inclusion of women, and has indicated that, while not formally recognized, these bodies may be regarded as part of Freemasonry, when describing Freemasonry in general.
Wikipedia
The two organizations in question are the OWF (linked in your initial post) and the HFAF.
Co-masonry is more widely known in the US but women-only freemasonry exists only in very small numbers. I suspect this is because of the relative popularity of the Eastern Star.
I think it is fairest to say that Women-only freemasonry as practiced by the OWF and HFAF is most certainly freemasonry, but irregular from the perspective of traditional Regular Freemasonry.
My personal view of all irregular freemasons, in fact anyone who thinks they are a freemason, is to accord them the courtesy of treating them as such. In practical terms it doesn't make a lot of difference as "secrets" are never discussed outside of the lodge room and I'm never going to be entering a lodge room with an irregular mason. But I can tell you that I have met many freemasons, male and female, who are irregular by my standards but are the finest people you would wish to associate with, and highly knowledgeable about freemasonry itself.
Hope this helps UFOpsychiczebra - this is an emotive subject for many freemasons. I apologize for continuing the thread derailment and I hope a women freemason comes along soon to answer your questions.
Originally posted by UFOpsychiczebra
Actually you're wrong.
Sorry women are NOT formally recognized, they even admit it in your own link that you provided in this post. Not officially recognized means just that, not recognized.
The United Grand Lodge of England have, in a statement of 10th March 1999, acknowledged the regularity and sincerity of women’s Freemasonry although they do not officially recognise it and their members cannot take part. Many of our own Lodges meet in premises owned by the men’s Order and informal relations are cordial and co-operative.
www.owf.org.uk...
Originally posted by Trinityman
reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra
3. Womens Freemasonry. This is, again, irregular masonry as ... However the UGLE in a statement of 10th March 1999, acknowledged the regularity and sincerity of women’s Freemasonry although they do not officially recognize it and their members cannot take part.
The United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE), and others concordant in that regular tradition, do not formally recognize any Masonic body that accepts women. The UGLE has stated since 1998 that two English women's jurisdictions are regular in practice, except for their inclusion of women, and has indicated that, while not formally recognized, these bodies may be regarded as part of Freemasonry, when describing Freemasonry in general.
I think it is fairest to say that Women-only freemasonry as practiced by the OWF and HFAF is most certainly freemasonry, but irregular from the perspective of traditional Regular Freemasonry.
My personal view of all irregular freemasons, in fact anyone who thinks they are a freemason, is to accord them the courtesy of treating them as such. … I can tell you that I have met many freemasons, male and female, who are irregular by my standards but are the finest people you would wish to associate with, and highly knowledgeable about freemasonry itself.
Hope this helps UFOpsychiczebra - this is an emotive subject for many freemasons. I apologize for continuing the thread derailment and I hope a women freemason comes along soon to answer your questions.
There is no need for you to apologize Trinityman, (but, your apology is accepted) unlike all the other replies in this thread, you have shown courtesy, respect and intelligence in your reply. Maybe all the others whom have replied to this should read your post as a good example of an appropriate response.
Now, to clarify.
There are women Freemasons. They practice as Freemasons. They have their lodges, so obviously they are not accepted into male lodges, and actually vice versa. That is except for co-Freemasonry but that is another subject. The fact that a male Freemason does not recognise a female Freemason does NOT make her less of a Freemason. Get over it! Why are some men so threatened by this? Are you afraid they might find out about your male only secrets? You do realise that your reaction to this only reinforces the homo- erotic associations that there with Freemasonry?
The current status of women in Freemasonry is transitional, there will eventually be full acceptance. Like all prejudice it will be overcome.
Now back to the actual topic.
I am NOT debating the validity of women in Freemasonry. I am interested in discussion with women Freemasons about Freemasonry and other women who may be interested in female Freemasonry.
DO NOT REPLY IF YOU ARE A MAN, OR YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY REPLYING TO THE OP.
Trinityman was only trying to clarify and help with what was a deliberate attempt by all the other replies in thread to derail it off topic. However, all the other replies in this thread - your OFF TOPIC posts are not welcome here.
Originally posted by UFOpsychiczebra
There is no need for you to apologize Trinityman, (but, your apology is accepted) unlike all the other replies in this thread, you have shown courtesy, respect and intelligence in your reply. Maybe all the others whom have replied to this should read your post as a good example of an appropriate response.
And maybe YOU should be more accepting to the REAL truth. You post a thread on ATS that really can't be answered because there are NO true female freemasons, and now all of a sudden your calling our responses unintelligent and somehow we showed you no respect? All we did was INFORM you of the truth..you don't like it..so you bash us...thats real classy of you. Also, in NO way was my post to be cocky or "disrespectful"...its a posting on a website..YOU put your on emotion into my writing and determined it to be, as you say: non-courteous, disrespectful, and unintelligent.
There are women Freemasons. They practice as Freemasons. They have their lodges, so obviously they are not accepted into male lodges, and actually vice versa. That is except for co-Freemasonry but that is another subject. The fact that a male Freemason does not recognise a female Freemason does NOT make her less of a Freemason. Get over it!
Nothing to get over...its simply NOT true. Again you can read anything you want in this politically correct world...Do your own leg work..go join the ES...and see how close you get to the blue room for an OFFICIAL meeting. I am not trying to be "mean"...I'm trying to be serious...you'll find out that you WON'T be accepted.
Why are some men so threatened by this? Are you afraid they might find out about your male only secrets? You do realise that your reaction to this only reinforces the homo- erotic associations that there with Freemasonry?
This is just a stupid statement. Sorry but because you can't be allowed in, now you insult the group like your a 12 year old pissed off that some other girl didn't share her ice cream with you. There is nothing homo-anything about not accepting women into the lodge...its called tradition. And for once I wish women would let tradition stand rather then destroy it like they did the military academies. And yes you can get pissed all you want, but the FACT is its true.
The current status of women in Freemasonry is transitional, there will eventually be full acceptance. Like all prejudice it will be overcome.
Don't hold your breath...but I will say if it DOES happen..you will see a complete dismantle of the freemasons...and you will ses that the hardcore masons WILL break away from the co-ed lodges and NOT recognize them...
DO NOT REPLY IF YOU ARE A MAN, OR YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY REPLYING TO THE OP.
Speaking of prejudice......
Trinityman was only trying to clarify and help with what was a deliberate attempt by all the other replies in thread to derail it off topic. However, all the other replies in this thread - your OFF TOPIC posts are not welcome here.
We derailed nothing..how do you derail a thread with an honest answer to your post???? Don't post on something you know NOTHING about, then when you hear the truth bash those telling you THE TRUTH! If you can't take THE TRUTH don't bother posting. You and all of us post on ATS for answers...not ONE SIDED views...if you want ONE SIDED views..your on the wrong website. And if you can't take others showing you the truth or trying to help you understand how your post CAN'T actually be answered...then what kind of infomation are you seeking besides BS!
And by the way..this IS the internet...when someone writes something and you read it..unless they make it CLEAR..its hard to tell the emotion of their responce..I suggest NOT putting your own emotions to other peoples words..then critisize them without knowing where they are coming from.
reply to post by rcwj75
Why are you continuing to post OFF TOPIC replies to this thread?
Can the moderators review the posts in this thread? It is obvious there are many that are OFF TOPIC.
Why are you continuing to post OFF TOPIC replies to this thread?
Can the moderators review the posts in this thread? It is obvious there are many that are OFF TOPIC.
Reminder
Just wanted to chime in a say thanks for the good information being provided, I noticed that it has taken a slight turn from the topic so I would appreciate it if everyone concerned could get back to the discussion of the topic:
Are you a female Freemason?
Thank you,
JacKatMtn
ATS Member & Forum Moderator.
Just wanted to chime in a say thanks for the good information being provided, I noticed that it has taken a slight turn from the topic so I would appreciate it if everyone concerned could get back to the discussion of the topic:
Are you a female Freemason?
Thank you,
JacKatMtn
ATS Member & Forum Moderator.
But Jack...how can we stay on a topic that DOESN'T exsist? I guess I'll just leave and let her have this thread...I apologize that it appears we/I
derailed this thread...but there is nothing more then to talk about..as this topic is not reality....
To UFO..sorry if I came off as an --- but I just wanted you to be aware that there is no such thing. There may be ones claiming the right, but its all false and NOT official. So good luck in your search...
To UFO..sorry if I came off as an --- but I just wanted you to be aware that there is no such thing. There may be ones claiming the right, but its all false and NOT official. So good luck in your search...
reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra
Interesting topic. When I was new here I asked out of sheer curiosity if there were female freemason groups. Some members provided some links but after looking into it a bit more, the female wings seemed pretty 'put on.' As in, they were created to include women but appeared to be more of an act of appeasement than anything else. I have/had no interest in being a freemason but still wanted to see how they handle the female side of things. I inquired about membership on the websites where they had a form for membership inquiries but never heard back from any of them. Which was odd because I'm one of those 'goody two shoes' types who you would have thought would receive a response.
Interesting topic. When I was new here I asked out of sheer curiosity if there were female freemason groups. Some members provided some links but after looking into it a bit more, the female wings seemed pretty 'put on.' As in, they were created to include women but appeared to be more of an act of appeasement than anything else. I have/had no interest in being a freemason but still wanted to see how they handle the female side of things. I inquired about membership on the websites where they had a form for membership inquiries but never heard back from any of them. Which was odd because I'm one of those 'goody two shoes' types who you would have thought would receive a response.
Personally I have no problem with the "idea" of an all women masonic style group. However it would be something else other then freemasonry. The
purpose of freemasonry has to do with making better men....it's not as simple as simply copying masonic rituals. Rather a woman's equivelent would
need to be structured in the same way to make better women. It would require a different set of ritual work for that purpose.
I mean nothing sexist by that, I also don't mean to say they should learn how to make the better cookie, or cleaning tips......don't take it like that. However women do occupy a most important place in in civilization, without which none of us would be here.
However ultimately women and men are equal but very different, and so any such group would need to recognise that, and speak to women as such.
For example ultimately in all societies only women can be "mother", it's one of the most important qualities of women. I would think therefor it would be impossible to make a female equivalent dregree system without speaking to that point.
Masonry does I beleive help men to be better husbands and fathers.....a women's version would need to have a goal of making women better wives and mothers.....ultimately the goals of masonry tend to be very family oriented even in our oaths.
Women freemasons, makes as such sense to me as girls in the boyscouts.
For the record i support women in the military and almost any other job along with men.....but organizations MADE for men and their growth and responsibilities will not help women achieve their goals.
I mean nothing sexist by that, I also don't mean to say they should learn how to make the better cookie, or cleaning tips......don't take it like that. However women do occupy a most important place in in civilization, without which none of us would be here.
However ultimately women and men are equal but very different, and so any such group would need to recognise that, and speak to women as such.
For example ultimately in all societies only women can be "mother", it's one of the most important qualities of women. I would think therefor it would be impossible to make a female equivalent dregree system without speaking to that point.
Masonry does I beleive help men to be better husbands and fathers.....a women's version would need to have a goal of making women better wives and mothers.....ultimately the goals of masonry tend to be very family oriented even in our oaths.
Women freemasons, makes as such sense to me as girls in the boyscouts.
For the record i support women in the military and almost any other job along with men.....but organizations MADE for men and their growth and responsibilities will not help women achieve their goals.
I was a member of Job's Daughters a loooong time ago. If I had chosen to continue with that type of organization, I would have joined Eastern Star,
not a lodge.
I don't see any point in joining an irregular organization and calling myself a Freemason, because I could never be a 'real' Freemason.
Jobie love to all.
I don't see any point in joining an irregular organization and calling myself a Freemason, because I could never be a 'real' Freemason.
Jobie love to all.
You know, you have a real attitude problem. I responded politely and you go off your rocker and and foe adding. Its kind of amusing. I am usually more
than often very rude when someone displays this sort of attitude, but the one time I fight my tendencies and decide to be nice you still can't
respond politely. Someone says your wrong and you show a huge attitude problem. Get over it. You are wrong.
The OP has asked a question which precepts are wrong. If the question was "What is your experience as a women in an organization practicing masonic ritual?" then we'd be fine, as such is not freemasonry. However, the OP has tried to attempt to get people to only respond in a manner that they approve of - sorry, not going to happen. This question is like asking "To those pink unicorns that make up the sky, what is it like?" and then getting mad when people responded that there were no pink unicorns in the sky.
What defines a freemason comes down to the landmarks and recognition. Its not anyone who practices the ritual, because there are lots of groups who use at it in whole or in part that are not freemasons (Mormonism until a few years ago, some parts of the OTO until it also got changed, any number of college fraternities which have lifted from the ritual, etc.). And, since the ritual is easy to obtain and available to anyone, it enables anyone to start their own group and call themselves freemasons. As such, what defines a freemasonic organization is its ability to conform to the landmarks and its recognition. One of those land marks is that the blue lodge and additional rites on top of it is men only. As such, any organization calling itself freemasonic that admits women is not. Additionally, such an organization would not have masonic regulations with any other recognized mainstream lodge.
Proclaiming that some co-masonic or women's organizations are regular does not make them recognized. It simply states that such organizations follow the ritual in the same way that regular lodges do - they still cannot establish masonic relations, since they break by definition at least one other landmark.
I have no problem with such organizations, by the way, nor do I think anyone in "regular" masonry has an issue with them. People are free to take the ritual and say they are freemasons all they want. But they are not actually masons. Women are admitted in masonic organizations, but not in the lodge (what makes one a freemason).
[edit on 20-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]
The OP has asked a question which precepts are wrong. If the question was "What is your experience as a women in an organization practicing masonic ritual?" then we'd be fine, as such is not freemasonry. However, the OP has tried to attempt to get people to only respond in a manner that they approve of - sorry, not going to happen. This question is like asking "To those pink unicorns that make up the sky, what is it like?" and then getting mad when people responded that there were no pink unicorns in the sky.
What defines a freemason comes down to the landmarks and recognition. Its not anyone who practices the ritual, because there are lots of groups who use at it in whole or in part that are not freemasons (Mormonism until a few years ago, some parts of the OTO until it also got changed, any number of college fraternities which have lifted from the ritual, etc.). And, since the ritual is easy to obtain and available to anyone, it enables anyone to start their own group and call themselves freemasons. As such, what defines a freemasonic organization is its ability to conform to the landmarks and its recognition. One of those land marks is that the blue lodge and additional rites on top of it is men only. As such, any organization calling itself freemasonic that admits women is not. Additionally, such an organization would not have masonic regulations with any other recognized mainstream lodge.
Proclaiming that some co-masonic or women's organizations are regular does not make them recognized. It simply states that such organizations follow the ritual in the same way that regular lodges do - they still cannot establish masonic relations, since they break by definition at least one other landmark.
I have no problem with such organizations, by the way, nor do I think anyone in "regular" masonry has an issue with them. People are free to take the ritual and say they are freemasons all they want. But they are not actually masons. Women are admitted in masonic organizations, but not in the lodge (what makes one a freemason).
[edit on 20-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]
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