French search for stolen Semtex

The fact that the Semtex went missing in Lyons alarms me a bit.

Is it not the Interpol Centre of Europe.

Also it is the home of the Roman Catholic Church in France.

Lyon was the home of a very famous 2nd Century Historian, the Bishop of Lagdanum of Gaul, in the roman empire...NOW called Lyons.

Bishop Irenaeus was a Student of Polycarp, who was a student of St John the Apostle, who was a student of Jesus Christ.

SO the city has a deep symbolic Christian history.

If they try to move or sell the stuff their are only a few players, in the end, with whom they have to deal with.

This makes it very dangerous for them to move the explosive and if it was being used to decom found explosives then I would be very sure that it has a tanngent.

Add with that in mind I believe that the odds of all of the explosive leaving Lyons is remote.

Irenaeus is known as the Eastern Bishop. This is an alarming symbology as well.

The city or some of the famous Cathedrals could be targeted.

The taggant is only relevant AFTER the bomb goes off and they have something to look at, unfortunately. In the grand scheme of things, it means relatively nothing other than that the explosives went off from Batch X, part of which was stolen from Lyons.

Until they know who actually stole it, the tag is just a tag, really.

reply to post by djvexd


Fair enough However you take my point as i meant it i hope

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
Pan Am 103 was brought down by an 11 ounce baseball sized lump of semtex.... terrifying isn't it? Used properly it is devastating.

More worryingly that is a rather extreme amount to bring down a flight, far less could have been used. What i worry about is the tried and tested ANFO bomb, or as you suggested earlier, semtex being used to set off gas cylinders.

However there is something that confuses me. It would be easier and less traceable to make your own explosives. I have a decent grounding in chemistry, i could cook up a batch of RDX if needed without a great deal of trouble. Terrorists are more informed than i am, why would they steal explosives when they could make their own? They could make stuff that wasn't traceable with great ease, their biggest trouble would be the detonators, which are very dangerous to make.

My point being that it isn't that hard to commit a terrorist attack if you have the desire. I just hope this was stolen for profit rather than a real attack.



[edit on 19-7-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by Ephiram-Lo

The taggant is only relevant after the

Not...not anymore...it can be RFID...but with explosives it has two uses.

1. Detection..airport screening

These are volatile chemicals which will slowly evaporate from the explosive and can be detected in the atmosphere by either detection dogs or specialised machines

They are intended to allow the presence of a bomb containing the explosive to be detected.

2. ANd as you said after an explosion...

Here is a Google Book Link on the item..books.google.com... &hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
There is something that confuses me. It would be easier and less traceable to make your own explosives. I have a decent grounding in chemistry, i could cook up a batch of RDX if needed without a great deal of trouble. Terrorists are more informed than i am, why would they steal explosives when they could make their own? They could make stuff that wasn't traceable with great ease, their biggest trouble would be the detonators, which are very dangerous to make.

My point being that it isn't that hard to commit a terrorist attack if you have the desire. I just hope this was stolen for profit rather than a real attack.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Forgetting some thing?

Hexahydro-1,3,5-trinitro-1,3,5 triazine. Start pulling in the ingredients to make 68lb of that and interpol are going to slam the cell door shut on you for 20+ years, and if your islamic you going to Gitmo via a rendition flight and maybe a luxury stay in a 'unknown, unregistered prison' courtesy of the CIA.

Steal 68lb of Semtex and detonators and you have no need to raise any warnings flags at all.

reply to post by whiteraven


68lb of semtex went via road or private aircraft. This didn't go through normal channels out of France.

Now, to get into airports they just use a sleeper in the staff. Straight through, onto the luggae rack the bags go, and off into the night the sleeper vanishes.

Then carnage starts.

(In the UK, foriegn workers at airports are not back ground checked in their home country of origin. This leads one to worry about the thousands of over seas workers in our airports and security apparatus).

For what its worth, MI5 worry about islamic infiltration of the Metropolitan Police, so its not too far fetched to worry about airport staff.

reply to post by Dan Tanna


I'm forgetting nothing, you wouldn't buy it all on credit card, we have this remarkable thing called cash and multiple retailers you know. It isn't hard to diffuse such an operation so it couldn't be found. Sorry that's just my view on it. Also certain components, like nitric acid can be found via hydroponic retailers where large purchases aren't uncommon.

Originally posted by Dan Tanna

(In the UK, foriegn workers at airports are not back ground checked in their home country of origin. This leads one to worry about the thousands of over seas workers in our airports and security apparatus).

More worryingly, if you ever saw the Dispatches documentary about heathrow (the UK's biggest airport) you would find that comercial entries were often unlocked and employees could go from warehouses to airplanes without any trouble. I have to admit this really opned my eyes to the major security trobules in airports.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by Dan Tanna

 

I'm forgetting nothing, you wouldn't buy it all on credit card, we have this remarkable thing called cash and multiple retailers you know. It isn't hard to diffuse such an operation so it couldn't be found. Sorry that's just my view on it. Also certain components, like nitric acid can be found via hydroponic retailers where large purchases aren't uncommon.

I am fully aware of how explosives are made and prepared by many terrorist groups world wide. I am also aware at how many operations world wide are started against terrorists by a 'cash buyer' being grassed up by a shop owner who doesn't want an interpol / Police / Federal investigation tearing his business apart.

Grasses killed many IRA / ETA / FARC / Shining Path / Hamas operations, and I could go on but it may bore you.

Stealing the semtex is way and above the easiest way to obtain the explosives. Also one thing it does tell us is that this is not a multi national group with access to libya / Iran / Russian support or they are being doubly careful so not to be rumbled before the operation kicks off.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

More worryingly, if you ever saw the Dispatches documentary about heathrow (the UK's biggest airport) you would find that comercial entries were often unlocked and employees could go from warehouses to airplanes without any trouble. I have to admit this really opned my eyes to the major security trobules in airports.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

I never saw the dispatches, but I did process alot of them through detention facilities and then onto deportation orders from the immigration service.

I never fly now, not after learning the Met have a Sunni wahabbist extremist as an anti terror officer.

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
Stealing the semtex is way and above the easiest way to obtain the explosives. Also one thing it does tell us is that this is not a multi national group with access to libya / Iran / Russian support or they are being doubly careful so not to be rumbled before the operation kicks off.

Sorry dan but i just can't agree. Stealing explosives is more risky than carefully consructing a device over time by a small group. Stealing semtex is a BIG flag, where as a slow build up of say RDX (my example) over say 6 months would be impossible to detect if done via cash. I'm sorry but it's true.

I could walk out tomorrow and make maybe 2 lbs of RDX without getting flagged, (please note i wouldn't make any explosive). Over a couple of months i could build up a very large supply. Hell if i so desired it wouldn't be hard to build up a supply of pure PETN (note semtex contains large amounts of PETN depending on the type).

Anyway like i was saying, it's not hard to get explosives and in my view, stealing them is just raising a flag to what you're doing.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984



Weird then that the bomb makers from scratch get caught, and those who steal the explosives don't....

Its not easier to make them. British prisons are testament to that. Stealing is also not a big flag marker. Its a one off event, leaving little or no traces or clues to work on.

However, I respect we will never see eye to eye on this, so i'll leave off now.



[edit on 19-7-2008 by Dan Tanna]

reply to post by Dan Tanna


Well i will also agree to disagee, it's nice to know someone has a similar philosophy

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

no worries...I fully understand that the internet is an "anarchist's cookbook". I actually owned that book when I was 15 as a "cool" thing, until I grew up and realized the potential of the information therein. While I am very skeptical and CT'ish I still take my contract seriously. And not for the reasons one might think. All I have to say is YOUTUBE,TEENS and COMMON ITEMS...lol...hopefully you understand.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I am not too sure of the laws in Europe when it comes to precursors but in the US and Canada you have to have "disclosure" and some form of documentation when purchasing or transporting certain chemicals.

It is fairly well regulated.

I am sure it is in France as well.

Dan Tanna hit the nail on the had when he implied that a method of moving the product via persons who have cultural ties.

Private plane or some mode of private transportation would be key in this transaction.

As i said earlier Interpol is based out of Lyons...I am sure they have some suspects.



[edit on 19-7-2008 by whiteraven]

Look at it like a business, I can either slowly grow a steady supply over a long period of time. Or I can take advantage of an oppurtunity I become aware of.

2000 lb's of Semtex was used by the IRA to blow up Manchester City centre in the Mid-Nineties.It was left in a Ford Transist van outside Marks and Spencers.I was going into the city centre with my family when there was a huge boom.Luckily,no -one died.There's a large North African population in the suburbs around Paris that periodically have tensions with the police(usually when they kill yet another Arab teenager,see the film -'La Haine-The Hate ,for more info on this issue).Also France recently refused entry to a Muslim woman seeking immigration on the grounds that she was 'totally submissive to her male relatives' the reason being given it goes against French culture and principles eg;no religous symbols or trappings of any religion are allowed in schools in France,it's the law,so no hajibs ,no crucifixes etc.Well,at laest there's less chance of a Greenpeace ship being blown up by the 'Force du Frappe'....

Here's a Wiki bit of info about the above mentioned bombing;






en.wikipedia.org...

we might of just found the stolen Semtex..

ETA strikes again

Originally posted by infinite
we might of just found the stolen Semtex..

ETA strikes again

Four bombs have exploded in northern Spain, although there have been no reports of casualties.

The first device went off at about noon on a seafront promenade in the resort of Laredo, in the Cantabria region.

A few hours later another bomb exploded there. Two more devices went off in Noja, some 20km (12 miles) from Laredo.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

The Basque Sepratists again?I thought all that had been sorted out?