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Originally posted by Lysergic
How bout them WMDs?
The country has been thoroughly searched, I mean the way Chenney had pitched a tent figured we'd be up to our ears in WMDs by now... but now nobody cares.
Just looking back...
What some Mustard gas? L O L
Originally posted by alkali
reply to post by SavageHenry
SavageHenry, you're killing me.
Who in the hell loses WMDs? Could you imagine the US military freaking out and asking, "Where the hell did that nuke go? It was here 10 minutes ago.."
No one loses WMDs. That's so asinine its unbelievable. You've obviously never had an experience with an auditor. Saddam was told to account for all WMDs in Iraq's possession. Obviously, he did not. 500 chemical weapons do not just go missing.
Not to mention, half the people on this forum believe in "inter-dimensional beings" and aliens and whatever else, yet it is totally inconceivable that the WMDs we were looking for were shipped out of the country before the US invaded. That's crazy talk.
Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by DaleGribble
Of course these were found. Most people only consider WMD as nuclear weapons but WMD include nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.
Saddam's chemical and biological weapons were used on the Kurds and Iranians so obviously he DID have them and this can not be doubted. Where these chemicals came from? I would bet my bottom dollar companies from France, Germany and the USA would had supplied Saddam hence the major cleanup job. I also suspect some of these weapons were already snuck out of Iraq and in to Syria (and possibly Hizbollah?) and burial sites out in the desert for future wars. I recall alot of movement on the Iraq/Syrian border within hours and days after the first US attack at the beginning of the 2nd Gulf War.
Originally posted by DaleGribble
im starting this thread because im sick of seeing posts saying "what happened to the wmd's in Iraq." and any and every variant of this.
I already know im going to here degraded this and old that. the point is 500 chemical weapons were found. this still may not justify the war but WMD'S WERE FOUND. like it or not they were there.
and this is just a thought I don’t think all of them have been found yet. also I don’t think the whole report has yet been declassified..
Since 2003 Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.
source:
www.foxnews.com...
also i dont know if this is in the right place. please move if needed..
Originally posted by Rosha
Originally posted by DaleGribble
im starting this thread because im sick of seeing posts saying "what happened to the wmd's in Iraq." and any and every variant of this.
I already know im going to here degraded this and old that. the point is 500 chemical weapons were found. this still may not justify the war but WMD'S WERE FOUND. like it or not they were there.
and this is just a thought I don’t think all of them have been found yet. also I don’t think the whole report has yet been declassified..
Since 2003 Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.
source:
www.foxnews.com...
also i dont know if this is in the right place. please move if needed..
I think you need to go review C Powells diatribe to the UN and see what HE meant by WMD. In order to justify the invasion he had to create a threat as NONE existed prior. What he said by "IMMINENT THREAT" to the US was a lie. It never materialised in truth and was just code for sources in Iraq to bug out as the US was going in regardless of the UN permission, which they did.
In any case, a couple of caches of sarin does not a WMD make especially sans any reliable distrubution method ( never found ). Yes the potential for dirty bombs etc was there and even direct sarin poisoning but even a city wide attempt at dispersal would have caused local not nation wide let alone MASS DESTRUCTION level exposure problem for the US. Theres more than that ( caches of sarin) stowed in BL4's all around the US. I figure, that if the US has and wants to keep its bioweapons stock given it is the only nation on the planet to actualy USE a WMD on a civillian population, then it cant call the kettle black demanding others give theirs up. Well..it can..but its futile.
It remains " On September 30, 2004, The ISG, under Charles Duelfer, issued a comprehensive report. The report stated that "Iraq's WMD capability ... was essentially destroyed in 1991" " LINK to source:
This is the reportage pre and post:
After the invasion, the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), headed by American David Kay, was tasked with searching for WMD. The survey ultimately concluded that Iraqi production of WMD ceased and all major stockpiles were destroyed in 1991 when economic sanctions were imposed, but that the expertise to restart production once sanctions were lifted was preserved. The group also concluded that Iraq continued developing long range missiles proscribed by the U.N. until just before the 2003 invasion. In an interim report on October 3, 2003, Kay reported that the group had "not yet found stocks of weapons", but had discovered "dozens of WMD-related program activities" including clandestine laboratories "suitable for continuing CBW [chemical and biological warfare] research", a prison laboratory complex "possibly used in human testing of BW agents", a vial of live C. botulinum Okra B bacteria kept in one scientist's home, small parts and twelve year old documents "that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment", partially declared UAVs and undeclared fuel for Scud missiles with ranges beyond the 150 km U.N. limits, "[p]lans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km", attempts to acquire long range missile technology from North Korea, and document destruction in headquarters buildings in Baghdad. None of the WMD programs involved active production; they instead appeared to be targeted at retaining the expertise needed to resume work once sanctions were dropped. Iraqi personnel involved with much of this work indicated they had orders to conceal it from U.N. weapons inspectors.[47][48] After Charles Duelfer took over from Kay in January 2004, Kay said at a Senate hearing that "we were almost all wrong" about Iraq having stockpiles of WMD, but that the other ISG findings made Iraq potentially "more dangerous" than was thought before the war.[49][50] In an interview, Kay said that "a lot" of the former Iraqi government's WMD program had been moved to Syria shortly before the 2003 invasion, albeit not including large stockpiles of weapons.[51] On September 30, 2004, The ISG, under Charles Duelfer, issued a comprehensive report. The report stated that "Iraq's WMD capability ... was essentially destroyed in 1991" and that Saddam Hussein subsequently focused on ending the sanctions and "preserving the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction (WMD) when sanctions were lifted". No evidence was found for continued active production of WMD subsequent to the imposition of sanctions in 1991, though "y 2000-2001, Saddam had managed to mitigate many of the effects of sanctions".[52]
So yes..he had stuff...so what? The US knew that years and years before. Given NO threat existed for "imminent use" of said weapons, there was no NEED to invade. Iraq has WMD, so does the US and every developed country. What's the point? The issue of IMMINENT THREAT is what is at odds here as THAT was the 'made up stuff"...that was the lie.
This is the main problem for so many protestors - Saddam had made NO moves to use these stocks and had made no threats to do so publically or clandestinly/diplomatically..THAT threat was an invention. He was, until just prior to invasion a US ally! Now I could look at US stocks and say the same thing about US bioweapons and demand an invasion to remove yours..but without an **active threat**..its still just a stockpile...and there is no justifcation for said action. It was wag the dog and people bought it and over a million people died for that. Congratulations.
Ro
edit on 25-8-2011 by Rosha because: typos
Originally posted by Paulioetc15
You're wrong, The inspectors did destroy with other WMDs into some, he didn't comply with the other parts of the UN resolutions. Saddam didn't allow most of the inspectors to monitor his factuatlies then get's kick out. Regardless, why did he kicked out UN inspectors many times in the 1990s. They are many resolutions that condemed Iraq for not complying.
I think that Saddam was posturing that he had more of a WMD weapon program capacity then he actually did. He did block inspectors when they were getting closer to finding out things. I also think that he moved some WMD's through the western desert to Syria as well.
Originally posted by pavil
I also think that he moved some WMD's through the western desert to Syria as well.
Saddam talked a much bigger WMD program than he had, but was still trying to keep the programs he had around. Given his trying to convince the world he had WMD's Saddam brought himself down, by giving the impression he had more advanced WMD programs and weapons then he really did.
Given he had used them in the past, was a tyrant and was still posturing that he had a significent WMD program still going, in the post 9-11 world, that was enough to take him seriously.
Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by pavil
I think that Saddam was posturing that he had more of a WMD weapon program capacity then he actually did. He did block inspectors when they were getting closer to finding out things. I also think that he moved some WMD's through the western desert to Syria as well.
Sorry but theres no proof of that its like saying iran has nukes in russia,
I've already stated that this is my belief.....I am entitled to my opinion, I don't claim to have facts to back it up.
Originally posted by buddhasystem
...and I think that I should be driven to work every day in a diamond studded stretch limo. What gives?
Major world powers, one would hope, are different from Las Vegas crowd mesmerized by magician's tricks, smoke and mirrors and "impressions". Military strikes of Biblical scale (again, one would hope) are based on hard, cold, and indisputable evidence. What happened in reality was that a bunch of dishonest clowns (essentially President Bush's entourage) decided to play geopolitical Gods just because they could. It was like one of these "Conquest" real time strategy games for them, albeit played with lives, limbs and blood of our soldiers and Iraqi citizens alike. As a side effect, the war weakened geopolitical standing of the US.
Really? His rusty chemical shells all of a sudden started to levitate and drift towards the United States?
Originally posted by pavil
Every major power seemed to THINK that the Iraqis still had a significant WMD.
To your last point....the side effect hasn't been the weakening of our Geopolitical standing...
It's not that "I" thought it, it's that "Governments" thought it and the "UN" was still not convinced Iraq had given up all WMD programs.
Originally posted by buddhasystem
If YOU believe that THEY thought that, that's your right. There was no hard intelligence at all. Acting on a hunch in matter likes this is crazy, irresponsible and criminal.
Can you spell IRAN?
Originally posted by pavil
It's not that "I" thought it, it's that "Governments" thought it and the "UN" was still not convinced Iraq had given up all WMD programs.
Originally posted by buddhasystem
If YOU believe that THEY thought that, that's your right. There was no hard intelligence at all. Acting on a hunch in matter likes this is crazy, irresponsible and criminal.
Can you spell IRAN?
Surprisingly to you, yes, I can spell that. Take a look at a map of Iran, tell me what country has them surrounded with military forces and bases...............
March 3, 1991 - Iraq accepts the terms of a ceasefire.
Mid March – Early April 1991 - Iraqi military forces suppress rebellions in the southern and northern parts of the country, creating a humanitarian disaster on the borders of Turkey and Iran.
April 3, 1991 - The UN Security Council passes the a ceasefire agreement, Resolution 687. The resolution also called for the destruction, or removal of all chemical and biological weapons, all stocks of agents and components, all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities for ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 km and related repair and production facilities, recognize Kuwait, account for missing Kuwaitis, return Kuwaiti property and end its support for international terrorism. This resolution created a special commission, UNSCOM, to inspect Iraq's chemical, biological and nuclear facilities. Iraq was required to turn over all biological and chemical weapons to UNSCOM for destruction, and ordered to respect the 1968 Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons Treaty.
April 4, 1991 - According to UNSCOM, Iraqi nuclear scientists are ordered to hide nuclear weapons from UN inspectors, collect and hide computer data, and formulate a "legal" justification for the existence of Iraqi nuclear labs.
April 5, 1991 - The UN Security Council passes Resolution 688, condemning Iraq's repressive measures exercised against civilians. The Council also demands access for humanitarian groups.
April 6, 1991 - Iraq accepts Resolution 687.
April 8, 1991 -At a European Union meeting in Luxembourg, a UN safe-haven in northern Iraq is established north of the latitude 36 degrees north, for the protection of Kurds. The US orders Iraq to end all military action in the northern Kurdish area.
April 18, 1991 - Iraq declares some of its chemical weapons and materials to the UN, as required by Resolution 687, and claims that it does not have biological weapons program
April 19, 1991 - Swedish diplomat Rolf Ekéus is appointed as the Executive Chairman of UNSCOM. June 9, 1991 UNSCOM begins its first inspections in Iraq
June 17, 1991 - The Security Council affirms in Resolution 699 that Iraq is responsible for the costs of the inspections, and Resolution 700 fully implementing the arms embargo against Iraq
June 23–28, 1991 - UNSCOM/IAEA teams attempt to intercept Iraqi vehicles carrying nuclear related equipment called calutrons. Iraqi soldiers fire warning shots in the air to prevent inspectors from approaching the vehicles.
Summer, 1991 - Rolf Ekéus, Executive Chairman of UNSCOM, arranges for a loan to UNSCOM of an US Lockheed U-2 spy plane for taking surveillance photos of Iraq.
August 2, 1991 - UNSCOM's biological inspection team is told by Iraq that any research into biological weapons was "for defensive military purposes."
August 15, 1991 - The UN Security Council proposes Resolution 706, a "food for oil" resolution, allowing Iraq to export up to $1.6bn of oil, the revenue from which would be paid into a UN-administered account. This money would then only be used to buy food, medicines and other essential material for Iraqis over a six month period. Some of this money would also be used to meet compensation payments to Kuwait and the cost of UN operations. The UN Security Council passes Resolution 707, emphasising the need for Iraq to allow UNSCOM and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) immediate and unconditional access to any areas they wish to inspect. Iraq was also ordered not to move or hide anything relating to its nuclear, chemical or biological programs.
September 1991 - Former US Marine intelligence officer Scott Ritter is hired as a UNSCOM inspector September 21–30, 1991 IAEA inspectors discover files on Iraq's hidden nuclear weapons program. Iraqi officials confiscate documents from UN weapons inspectors. The UN inspectors refuse to turn over a second set of documents. In response, Iraq refuses to allow the inspection team to leave the site without turning over the documents. A four-day standoff ensues, but Iraq permits the team to leave with the documents after a statement from the UN Security Council threatens enforcement actions.
October 11, 1991 - The UN Security Council passes Resolution 715, which approves joint UNSCOM and IAEA plans for ongoing monitoring and verification. The resolution demands that Iraq "accept unconditionally the inspectors and all other personnel designated by the Special Commission" Iraq says that it considers the Monitoring and Verification Plans adopted by Resolution 715 to be unlawful, and states that it is not ready to comply with the Resolution.
February 18, 1992 - The Executive Chairman of UNSCOM details Iraq's refusal to abide by UN Security Council disarmament resolutions.
en.wikipedia.org...edit on 1-9-2011 by Paulioetc15 because: (no reason given)