The Myth of Mental Illness and Scientology

*off-topic Moderation note*

Originally posted by paxnatus
As a moderator would you consider closing this thread for the well being of the community here?

As I am participating in this thread as a member I can no longer make Moderation calls. Feel free to file a complaint or alert any thread you like to have it reviewed by other Moderators.

*off-topic Moderation note ended*

Regardless of the O.P.'s success or failure at communicating intent and message, it has certainly generated enough intent and message for this thread to make it past page one. Some would rather suppress this thread rather than engage in any meaningful dialogue, or debate, regarding mental illness, how it is treated in the in the world, the Western world, and the United States. Those who would suppress this thread obviously approve of the psychotropic drugs - being marketed directly to consumers since 1997 - hawked as some sort of reasonable treatment for behavior that had for thousands of years seen as natural behavior, such as depression and anxiety.

Consider this:

Numerous scholars argue that the pharmaceutical industry has emerged as a major “engine” driving medicalization (Clarke et al. 2003; Conrad 2005; Conrad and Leiter 2004; Williams, Gabe, et al. 2008). Prior to 1997, DTCA of pharmaceuticals was not possible on television due to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requirements of “fair balance” and “brief summary” in the advertising of prescription drugs. However, in late 1997 the FDA issued new guidelines detailing how pharmaceutical companies might meet these requirements, thus initiating the modern era of drug advertising (Conrad and Leiter 2008). Since then, there has been a dramatic increase in DTCA of psychotherapeutic drugs, especially for depression but also more recently for anxiety and bipolar disorder (Relmen and Angell 2002).

While I am an ardent free market advocate and do not believe an industry should be prevented from marketing their goods and services, I am also an advocate of truth, and just because I stand behind the principle of free markets doesn't mean I have to now pretend that selling drugs to people with bold claims that their emotional states are mental illnesses is - by any stretch of the imagination - honorable, or just.

Here is what what The National Institute of Mental Health has to say about depression. All through this site a government agency is insisting that depression is a medical illness and a brain disorder, even after they admit that proving this claim has been difficult.

Depressive illnesses are disorders of the brain. Longstanding theories about depression suggest that important neurotransmitters—chemicals that brain cells use to communicate—are out of balance in depression. But it has been difficult to prove this.

There is the truth of it from NIMH, that truth is they want you to believe that depression is a medical illness even if they can't prove it. However, following one more paragraph on the page I just cited, in a bold rectangular box, NIMH states:

Research indicates that depressive illnesses are disorders of the brain.

Of course, this is a government website, so take it for gospel truth and do precisely what they tell you to do, and for God's sakes pay no attention to anyone who would challenge their propaganda.

So, by all means, ignore this:

Contrary to the APA’s assertion, depression is not an illness. In fact, depression is an adaptive mechanism which has served the species well for millions of years. When things are going well in our lives, we feel good. This good feeling is nature’s way of telling us to keep doing what we’re doing. When our lives are not going well, we feel down or depressed. This is nature’s way of telling us to make some changes.

This is very similar to pain. Pain is a signal that tissue is being damaged and that urgent action is needed. For instance, if you touch a hot stove, the pain induces an immediate reaction to pull your hand away. Usually this is accomplished with minimal damage to the skin. Without pain, we would not respond as quickly to these kinds of situations, and we would incur a great deal more tissue damage than is actually the case.

Of course, this site claims that the way to combat any chronic depression is through good nutrition, fresh air, sunshine, physical activity, purposeful activity, good relationships, and regular and fitful sleep.

Dear Lord! No med's? For God's sake's please take what that website has to say with extreme caution. After all, don't you think it is really better just to have your doctor prescribe you some psychotropic drug so you can keep eating poorly, stay indoors at all times, living nocturnally, with no physical activity, only to go to work to pay for those anti-depressants (and rent) at a job you cannot stand and see as its only purpose as being a way to pay for your rent, food, and med's, so you can numb the pain of being so terribly alone?

Some one stop this thread before sanity prevails!

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

..... Except, you excluded the ones on this thread whom actually suffer from mental illness and recogonize the challenges we face.


Then we have some Nazi guy living in 1942, comparing psychiatrists toHitler or some other garbage!

*** Psychiatry eugenics indeed played a pivotal role in initiating the holocaust but they barely like to acknowledge it though. wasn't that long ago this happened, shortly the DSM was invented to classify people with direct relation to drug industry demands or politics

People deemed to fit into a DSM category are denied the Rights that all other citizens have and get locked up chemically tortured or ECT for those that aren't easily brainwashed to accept they have an illness that needs lifelong medication (ECT is from Pig slaughter, made the pigs easier to give in and die, Psychiatry sees this as 'therapeutic'..not to mention where anti-psychotics come from)

many area's that Ethics are failing with compulsory treatment and torture of the mentally ill who don't have a legal case or once the drugs kick in conveniently unable to form thoughts or passion to preserve their own right life to stand up for their rights and any attempt to talk some truth into an atheist profession is futile... Even if the illness can be logically explained through Spiritual experience, nutritional or simply a sleep disorder. I speak from experience (though maybe mentioning it will let you pass off what I speak in truth as ludicrous or whatever.. at least I know how inhumane the profession is treating people as sub-human, like the NAZI's) and am still under a government order to obey the limited scope Psychiatry has that can't even explain what the mind is, it ignores Spiritual experience (actually classifies someone as mentally ill, fair enough they aren't always 'Strawberry fields' or might come into contact with dark entities that drain life energy and promote delusion false visions etc) Maybe Psychiatry serves to drive out Psychically gifted individuals?no more Prophets insanely creative types etc

Don't mean to be argumentative, get enough of it with my Psychiatrist who downplays anything I have to say, offering no therapy then administering chemicals given the nickname of 'medicine' (have to research but they're derived from pesticides, industrial solvents and Ink etc).. the science is dominated by doctrines Pharmaceutical industry provides with ghost writing, conflicts of interest or spending millions on marketing rigging result to barely find a few studies that show drugs are effective...

I think one day we'll get a bit further again from the atrocities of Nazi Germany, I don't believe it has come that far or maybe a eugenic agenda is still evident... The drugs destroy Spirituality, spiritual body. blunt emotions and make a person unable to form loving relationships and majority of anti-psychotics cause sterility ..... Professionals gloss over this, they don;t even know because the actions of drugs like zyprexa are top secret... disrupts the endocrine system pineal pituitary glands etc atrophy of the testicles, and sterility in women too..

Much can be done, I like the Idea of a collaboration yet I believe Psychiatry and drug industry will exert their dominance based on theory still in development... Their are alternatives yet drug companies ddon't want these tested.... I believe it was a former head of the APA Loren Mosher actually proved that drugs aren't necessary in short term, and others have found that they inhibit true recovery, and attitude Psychiatry could adopt that people can recover yet maybe it serves the industry too well to keep people sick...

I only hope people who have experienced mental illness can find their own way, maybe it is with spiritual guidance or to understand the experience or how misinterpretation of stimuli lead the way to delusion, maybe meditation self awareness. find support in the community, like there are groups that have support socially that they can recover and realize it on there own because psychiatry offers nothing to recovery, in most cases..

**I guess SkyFloating is one of the few that can advocate for the system still in development... Maybe in the future there will be alternatives available that have scientific credibility....


I wouldn't want anybody to go off medications, mainly having to consider withdrawal reactions which clinical trials used to their advantage in inducing psychosis for trials making drugs out to be more effective, they wouldn't use first episode Psychosis since ppl recover from up to 70% without drugs-HELLO!
The work of Abraam Hoffer Orthomolecular medicine, using vitamin therapy could be useful for anyone dissatisfied with their treatment although many just so brain dulled that they have no ability to reflect on the current treatmen

If someone is convinced he is surrounded be "Reptilians" etc. i would very well advice him to take some meds, sorry.

You just need to open your eyes and look around what's happening in the world to realize that mental illness obviously is NO myth.

i`ll be sure to tell my father that mental illness is a myth next time i see him in the Psychiatric Unit with his Alzheimers Disease
that started out as Bi Polar Disorder maybe thats a myth too?
maybe all the years we spent growing up as kids watching my father being taken into institutions twice a year regular as clockwork were for a "Mythical Illness"

maybe seeing the aftermath of this Mythical illness for us all was mearley an Illusion?
especially after his courses of ECT
cos if it wasnt a mental illness id sure as hell like to know what it was that destroyed my family
care to shed any light on a different diagnosis than the numerous doctors who have said its bi polar thats turned into Alzheimers?

i hope O.P you never have to see a loved member of your family come back from hospital and not know who the hell you are for months at a time

but please do offer me an alternate explanation of what it was if it wasnt a Mental Illness

reply to post by Raguel



Sorry it's so lengthy

main point is People's experience with mental health is basically ignored, especially from perspective of Psychiatry making subjective observation with apathy and signs of brain damage being a therapeutic target ... and there are testimonials all over the net of people who've gone against 'doctors' orders to truly recover since most will know that the drugs destroy quality of life, social responsiveness, creative expression or spiritual fulfillment... Just a stab in the dark, yet it is shown in history that Psychiatry intentionally stands in the way of people's development spiritually, for political agenda to suppress types that will stand up to political oppression, maybe psychiatry is an effective tool for social control... Or to give the illusion of illness, when people experience birthing pains of transcending social constructs the leaders would like people to stay sheep.......

Note to myself--- I hear CIA is using remote viewers, astral projection is disassociation-- so maybe gifted people are useful in warfare but the rest are disarmed with drugs??? It is someones theory anyway

I know I was drawn to religious sectors through some more traumatizing experiences.. learning Yoga and meditation spent over 6 years without meds despite having a label that promoted lifelong treatment. (unfortunately with stress of several house moves and over enthusiasm of sifting through my life, including trauma's and history family disturbances that lead to Psychiatry distorting family dynamics, initiating the stigma to SILENCE me.. At the expense of my future studies showing some promise according to my Astrophysics lecturer and creative enlightenment, going beyond the threshold, unorthodox views that weren't actually deluded, just I was talking to people that weren't qualified for me to reflect ideas of numerology and the nature of creation and the cosmos, theory of everything I became interested in during uni. so I found out years later I wasn't deluded at all, just showing interest in spirituality and becoming rather spiritual in an atheist family with no support;..

Psychiatry doesn't address the nature off creativity process and stress, or that it is major factor in developing psychosis, including sleep disorder with the creative inspiration so I went without sleep for days and became more difficult to sleep..suffering sleep deprivation as a cause of psychotic episode yet it was easy for them to convince me and my family i needed meds, but wasn''t so easy this time around, thats why they cracked down harder on me, threatened injections and restraint, ludicrous situation was totally aware, totally wrong fascist pigs etc.... of course I had signs of being unwell but was on the right track... I've recovered on my own during the years and even may owe that to '___', rocking experience opens up the pineal gland, not recommended to anyone as a treatment of mental illness, but It healed my heart...dangerous though in the wrong environment...
so
now my aspirations and social skills have been ruined, for the sake of therapuetic apathy and listlessness I found out is the goal, since my new med Goedon or Zeldox (risk of fatal heart condition) lets me feel more alive until they increase the dose for sleeping aid that the drug causes insomnia until I'm vegetable enough) ... the logic is absurd, can't stand them, need a lawyer or wake them up to their ethical flaws....

Perhaps Shaman healers or some spiritual groups could be the answer, yet cults may take advantage of someone in crisis...
People experiencing a crisis aren't given enough credit especially once Psychiatry distorts the truth, self image and stigma.....

Mental 'Health' system isn;t pretty at all, I think it is worth discussion on ATS, though it sounds like people get discredited when they speak of self destructive thought patterns that society induces , doubting their own sanity etc ..

Thanks, Pardon I get lengthy with my comments, I go bitch slap myself, Or let someone that advocates for the industry just think I'm crazy , maybe that's the purpose of the industry to ridicule bright minds into oblivion.... maybe.....maybe it's just obvious.. not that I think I'm all that bright or a messenger of god with a purpose in the world and its future of science like I used to,, drugged into oblivion with no purpose, coz if I think I have a higher purpose, that is a sign of an illness even if its healthy and inspiring... psychiatry is subjective in diagnosing, they fill the spaces to make the patient out to fit diagnosis even when it's misinterpreted,.. no point telling them "yeah I hear a voice, its my own voice like when I think of something i can hear it, kind of" hears voices = Schizophrenic... It's tricky to not be misrepresented with diagnostic process, and they;re good at drawing out all the clues they need to make it up...

reply to post by mrfreehugs

race. I believe that most people in mental hospitals are victims of big pharma and a government brain washing project similar to MKUltra. I am not a Scientologist, however I do have connections with the scientologist that I will not go into details about.

Really?

I had a friend who was in a serious motorbike accident. He was in a coma for 3 weeks and in hosiptals for 7 months. He had several fractures in both legs, a fractured skull and acute brain damage. To cut a long story short, he went completely made and stabbed his brother. He now lives in a mental care home.

Tell me how on Earth did the US government cause this?

ALS

reply to post by UkRandom

if I could condense what I said.... definitely the doctors need to acknowledge the ECT can cause severe long term memory problems, like people forget their family home etc its really bad.... maybe they do all they can to cover their backsides

They probably used anti-Psychotics for his Bi-Polar.. Don't believe them if they try to claim bi-Polar naturally progresses to Alzheimer, typical lies I wouldn't put past them, the profession is quick to tell lies to cover up its errors and there wouldn't be much point in arguing with the professionals they aren't good company IMO.... tough situation

All I really know that is relevant is Anti-Psychotics cause Parkinson like condition in the brain, it is brain damage that the Pharma companies covered up and claimed the illness itself causes brain abnormalities, which it doesn't, the drugs do that quite rapidly... There is research in that but it isn't conclusive, they like to see it as therapeutic effect and it sounds like they don;t want people to be concernedwith it, because people might stop the treatments (" brain shrinkage, treatment naive anti-psychotics neuroleptics etc.....brain shrinkage.. that's one link, think her name was Andreason link.. the 'Scientist' like to think of in a way that drugs are failing to prevent deterioration from the illness, but it is scientifically flawed since those tested for brain volumes are generally medicated (or they plain lie about that fact) and treatment naive patients with so called degenerative disease like bi-polar or schizophrenia (that is a myth that they claim it is degenerative brain disease, there is no evidence other then the pills cause degeneration )
there have been studies with normal people and the drugs shrunk the brain and a study with 'monkeys' that measured brain shrinkage that you can find something about on search engine.. the damage depends on length and intensity of treatment..... I suspect your father must have had intense treatment if they resorted to ECT

You could try to find out what drugs mood stabilizers etc that he was on Adverse reaction FDA.. that link has list of adverse reactions, and interesting if you put in common psych drugs like zyprexa or zoloft etc) yet I believe the statistical occurrences aren't all that accurate since most professionals try to make excuses to save the drug companies from being sued , or they blame side-effects on the illness like emotional blunting which the drugs do that are also part of diagnostics....

Wouldn't surprise me that the drugs cause Alsziemers or maybe he was actually going to get it anyway...Maybe not enough credible scientific study has gone into environmental factors and doubt drug-Companies would allow links to be made to the drugs like other areas they were reluctant to acknowledge to suppress the dangers

the drugs can cause problems with memory retention maybe long term memory.... And ECT definitely is known to cause severe problems with long term memory, it is quite common side effect and the people administering it should be aware that his memory problems might be from ECT...and The drugs cause the brain to age prematurely, another fact they'd like to gloss over, and cause most to die 15-25 years prematurely...

Sorry to hear your story UkRandom, its a horrible trap wish I could help in some way --- I hope he can recover....
Hope this isn't damaging to anyone, I don't think I'm as damaging to human life as this profession that my truth may seem to be damaging but I only mean it for the good of those unfortunate enough to think they need to turn to Psychiatry... I doubt I make any difference to already problems with compliance, don't blame them....




[My comments are too long... don't reckon it would make any difference anyway.... ppl take it as BS anyway]

My uncle refuses to take medication for his Bi-polar and instead believes god will heal him. He has slipped into self-medication through drugs and alcohol. Metal illness isn't a myth its a serious sickness that tears families apart. I saw my uncle force himself to vomit so he could drink more. I've seen him, stomping around while high arguing with "God" and using his religion not as guidance but rather as a excuse. He has abandoned his children(9 kids most form different mothers across the country) and scarred them for life.

The drunk calls, the constant asking for money and stealing. His depression, and mood swings and his constant blaming of everyone and everything but himself. I haven't seen my uncle or have heard for him for years. Last time I heard form him, he was drunk and incoherent and asked me to wire him money or to get my grandmother to do it. He drifts from place to place, and I don't know if he's alive or not. My grandmother, his mother fears the day when she gets the inevitable call telling her, that her son has died.

Originally posted by Raguel
reply to post by UkRandom

 

.

Sorry to hear your story UkRandom, its a horrible trap wish I could help in some way --- I hope he can recover....

the person i knew as my father has gone forever i know that and so does my family
he will never recover as his Bi Polar ended up getting worse/more frequent episodes of mania and depression
now hes got Alzheimers and doesnt know who he is let alone any of his kids
i appreciate your sentiment about wanting to help but alas life doesnt work like that
this original thread has stirred up many emotions and feelings that i thought id supressed
how anybody can think that mental illness is just a Myth is beyond me

the only treatments i remember him being on were frequent lots of Lithium..more sleeping pills than you can shake a stick at
numerous bouts of ECT
they tryed everything and yes for a few years things did get better but everytime his mania or depression came back it was more horrendous and brutal then the previous episodes

but in regards to the original post i will and can say for defenite yes institutions for mentally ill people are trial grounds for "new drugs"
i know as iv seen my father beenlet home on day/weekend leave come home with tablets unmarked and on the side effects list it was blank he was given a pen and told "write down any side effects you notice here"

end of the day he knew what was going on but whos going to believe a man whos labelled as "mentally Ill"

i can only hope that whatever place in his mind hes at now hes freed from the torture hes been thru for 30+years

sorry but this thread has destroyed me

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


While it is true that the drugging of patients is way overdone it does not mean that all drugs are invalid or that the profession of psychiatry is "evil", as the OP suggests. Drugs run through several double-blind tests before they are administered to the market, something that cannot be said of many alternative methods (such as Homeopathy or the Scientology mentioned by rthe OP) or of faith healing. While I also believe in the effectivity of some of these alternative methods, the blanket vilification of pharma and psychiatry appears to be too simplistic. I dont know if it is your intent to imply that psychiatry and pharma are generally bad, but just in case you are, take this as a rebuttal.

Originally posted by mrfreehugs
Just because someone has a chemical imbalance does not mean that they are seeing and hearing things that are not there. Just because they can see and hear things that you cannot does not mean they are not really there.

i will strongly disagree with your "Just because someone has a chemical imbalance does not mean that they are seeing and hearing things that are not there"
so when my father trashed the house when we were 12years old at christmas
certain that the police had bugged the house then went on to ring up the police station and threaten to blow the building up....so whatever spurred him on to do that "was really there?"

then i ask you

whats better in the long run for my father at that time
getting shot by the police for threatning to blow the place up
Or
being detained under
Section 3 of the Mental Health Act (A person can be detained for treatment for up to six months (and that period can be renewed). The grounds for this are that the patient is ‘suffering from mental illness, severe mental impairment, psychopathic disorder or mental impairment and his mental disorder is of a nature which makes it appropriate to receive medical treatment in hospital’ and ‘in the case of psychopathic disorder or mental impairment, such treatment is likely to alleviate or prevent a deterioration of his condition’ and ‘it is necessary for the health or safety of the patient or for the protection of other persons, that he should receive such treatment and it cannot be provided unless he is under this section’)
Link To Mental Health Act
one final question for you tho
have you Ever had to live with or deal with any kind of mental illness associated with family or yourself?

Who's to wager that the OP hasn't ever had to live with mental illness as a part of their life?

Of course, OP, you have a point about the way it's being treated and the questionable nature of the pharmaceutical companies, but to suggest that mental illness is a "myth" is extremely foolish.

The problem with the medication is how it's being treated and prescribed. Someone I know closely suffers from a mixture of social and personality disorders which they take doses of fluoxetine and mirtazapine daily for. This has generally helped them - despite some side-effects which haven't been too inconvenient - but the process of finding the right medicine for them spanned over a few years where the doctors were basically making them go between different medications to see which ones helped best and these were the years where they were most mentally unstable. Fortunately, their mental health seems to be improving now and the medication has helped. Unfortunately, the medication is physically addictive, so when the day they no longer require it (hopefully) comes, they're going to need to come off it slowly by decreasing their dosages.

But... That's not the problem. The problem I see is that doctors are prescribing medication to people who don't really need it. I've known many perfectly healthy people around my age now who have said "I feel depressed" and then go to the doctors because they think they've got depression when in reality they're just a bit sad, either because of work-related stress or just life issues in general. The doctors simply throw prozac at them, though, without really caring that much whether they really need it or not.

I've known people who've gone in for physical illnesses like M.E and been given prozac. It's ridiculous. And if you take a look at those list of side effects it will say "you may become more depressed during the first few weeks of taking this", so often they find themselves even more depressed as a result during the weeks it takes for the prozac to take effect.

So yeah. Basically, you've got a bit of a point, OP, but you're way off the mark.
Also, minus points for using Scientology as a reference. Are you actually serious? Have you heard of their alternative methods to psychology? In case you haven't, look into the case of Lisa McPherson.
I think I'd take the psychiatrists over those lot any day.

reply to post by UkRandom


Sorry to hear it stirred up uncomfortable emotions .... ( where has the OP has gone anyway?? though I feel responsible for posting on it because I've had experience of inhumane treatment that nearly took my life with allergic reaction they had to force a tube down my throat because my tongue went down my neck...trauatised me on top of other stuff that helped trigger problems and psychiatric intervention that were ignored for the philosophy of drugging to suppress the apparent distress. Long story not to mention the stigma and lies I've heard to sell the drugs, people generally buy it or if they don't they get forced into it even if they'll just recover naturally and the drugs prevent natural healing, think I had an out of body experience when I passed out from shock)......bla.. not all that relevant, sorry if that makes your feelings worse..

Maybe one day science will develop techniques to heal mentally ill, or they'll somehow learn from all the terrible experiences people have had from this inhumane method of treatment that treats people in crisis like animals...... don;t want to assume what is actually stopping them from making progress, maybe profits etc....

Thats wrong that they used untested Pharmacy on your dad, not good at all... Although it probably happens all the time, who knows what they inject non-compliant people with, like what almost killed me could have been anything really, and they get away with it

You'll pull through, maybe its a sign you;re just sensitive to your dads experience...

I'lll shut up now [after this note] and wait for the OP...... only new here, dunno if I'm alright, probably not, will change the sbject or get a solid theory and post my own thread once I can.... I crapped on a bit though, dunno if anyone found anything interesting from the perspective of someone who was in it, maybe a social phenomena that is getting worse, for what purpose if there is a purpose to stigmatizing people with a problem that is unknown ans psychiatry only providing and acting on one perspective.... Maybe it could be a sign of global ascension?? haha... maybe TPTB really are trying to prevent us from Spiritual awakening..... Kundalini awakening for people that are unprepared for it, grounding in yoga could help ...social engineering or something.... DSM broadening its spectrum to label more and more as ill for normal stuff. I think its alright to ask why, maybe prevent some disaster stories.. fair enough people known someone who's been through it and confirm it as real, peoples s#@$T is real, just the treatments and stigma is just a new thing after thousands of years of surviving our own idiosyncracies withhout being labeled and forcced into oblivion.... and they've been silenced, or made things worse for themselves with outlandish behavior or drugs and alcohol... I think they have good contribution to make to the world with humane treatment or maybe family counseling... but the industry puts an end to it, not offering alternatives that allows them to recover and find stable place in society and make contribution..new treatments will come out, if they profit the drug industry///. scizo's don't need to be Zombies,

I've drank some Canadian Club... [*telling myself to shut up a bit...^ ok yes I'll do that... embarrassment, humour is something a shrink doesn;t understand, not that anyone would find me in slightest bit funny anyway, I used to be and confident socially competent, coz I can only talk with a keyboard, bit of thought disorder made worse from pills, etc etc..... will spare anyone of anything to confirm that I;m mad......] F$#%K.. I made it long again.... Sorry, nobody cares,,, ok....
I'll get onto something a bit less controversial,,though I thought this place would be good for it, seems like people have experienced the other side, socially or with family and it is real.... I just think the 'science' has something wrong with it and people experiencing it have no rights and treated like animals... like millions, dunno the stats................ I doubt anyone would read another one of my lengthy posts, I just send this anyway and change my subject matter to something I'm not qualified to talk about..... I made it sound like I'm crazy no?? lay some # on me I deserve it, It will get my adrenalin up not that I have the glands left to make it from the drugs but it might be good for me

I wish mental illness ways a myth because maybe then I wouldn't have been mentally ill for the last 30 (ish) years and I also would have spent a lot less time trying to decide how to mess with my Psychiatrists, who collectively have the IQ of a glass of pond water. And they're also the least well-read people I have ever encountered, which only increases my contempt for them.

Like I said, I wish mental illness was a myth.

Rev

Originally posted by revmoofoo
I wish mental illness ways a myth because maybe then I wouldn't have been mentally ill for the last 30 (ish) years and I also would have spent a lot less time trying to decide how to mess with my Psychiatrists, who collectively have the IQ of a glass of pond water. And they're also the least well-read people I have ever encountered, which only increases my contempt for them.

Like I said, I wish mental illness was a myth.

Rev

Quoted for truth.

I should also add to my last post that the psychiatrists have been totally, totally useless in my experience and a lot of them (at least in the UK) seem only to care about what quotas they have to fill rather than actually helping their patients efficiently.

The Myth of Mental illness - Thomas Szasz
First published in American Psychologist, 15, 113-118.

not sure if the OP put this up?? I find it hard to read, but he does have credibility... I think the 'Myth' implies more about what Psychiatry is using in the name of 'science' which it isn't, science like it claims to be....

Fair enough People get crazy ideas, but it could be a misinterpretation,,,, paranoia and feeling like one is being followed could come down to a reality that people who've strayed from social norms may have tabs put on them, or they are indeed being tracked down for psychological assessment that inevitably leads to unethical practices and toxic drugs to suppress higher functioning of mind and spirit. for the safety of themselves or others (but this is often used to confine people that pose no risk to society or themselves
.. or maybe its trauma based from past experience.. not that the average madman would initiate the CIA to use remote viewing to spy on them, I doubt it....
[ETA; I've heard a theory that remote viewers are ike the elite of Psychotics? specially trained to use their supersensitive Extrasensory perception for use in intelligence, concluding that gifted individuals can be trained yet it is forbidden in mainstream society for security concerns... nothing to back it up just someone's theory from the 'church of schizophrenia'...of course but mainstream Psychiatry would label those with that kind of talent as mentally ill but in the right hands is an asset to security in very rare cases or people spend big bucks to learn this skill for no real benefit to anything... just interesting idea]

or maybe it stems from conflicts of ego that gives illusion of grandeur or level of importance in public security that they'd need to be spied on or bugged or having their facebook monitored , which isn;t totally unrealistic but a Psychiatrist would use it for diagnosis, suppose it depends if its causing a problem with a chain reaction emotionally or acting out... self fulfilling prophecy and irrational fears , creating their own reality, along with the fear of going mad that opens doors for it to happen.. ;ike thinking your miss's is cheating on you, if she wasn't then she might just to free themselves or they already had the tendency, or the guy is mentally ill and can see when she roots around and sometimes he was right!! ahh Sorry, that sux..

society is complicated, maybe people with mental illness are the victims of a corrupt society...... Psychotherapy could get past some irrational theories and fears, though is basically never used (dangerous apparently, I'd like to know why they think its dangerous, maybe it opens doors shedding skins that past suggestion influence and childhood trauma, but then again councilor might be driven by and agenda to brainwash and mythical notions forced into sensitive individuals heads, which would rightfully infuriate the patient or used for benefit of drug company profits to accept they have lifelong illness (they rule the industry and the science and universities) or like population control, and it is effective........

Just some ideas... gonna finish my Canadian Club, which isn't good for mental health either--- neither is coffee Excitotoxins in our food, maybe sodium fluoride serves a purpose since it is in a lot of psych drugs and that isn't for dental care of the mentally ill, don't reckon their teeth be any better.... I've said enough, not worth it, people don't seem to like the idea that Psychiatry is a modern Myth (but normal often misunderstood human conditions aren't ) and intends to expand and pre-drugg kids in our schools with up to 90percent chance of false positives and no real scientific evidence that seeing out the chance of future illness maybe 10 years down the track, ummm?? think how much a 7yr old deemed to be at risk of psychosis when they're 25 and stressed to buggery doing doctorate of philosophy or something might ruin their life and ability to make progress and achievements up until that point when maybe the problem will be addressed differently in the future.. or they never would get an illness, but are ruled by the drugs forever... I think that movement is totally wrong, but anyway nothing much I can do about it...


ETA; I can't even tolerate reading one of my lengthy posts, that must say something,,, I feel bad about it, they are long, dunnno how ppl can condense what they say into a short paragraph and just one, even when they got things to say about the relevant IQ of a psychiatrist....don;t know how anyone else could my sh#@@$T...., hope it has some substance for anyone who could be bothered, but I doubt it especially for more cynical types.....though I want them to bash me!! Adrenalin or I just shut up.... people must think I'm crazy or a rambling idiot... I got a lot to say, Am learning from what people are saying,... I need to work on a thread when I got my s#$T together....

reply to post by Skyfloating


I entered this thread immediately taking the O.P. to task for taking the word "myth" and conflating it with "falsehood". I understand that this is a cultural meme used to the point of ad nauseum in modern English, but it is an absurd bastardization of the word. There is a power to mythology that has existed long before psychiatry and even - remarkably and seemingly to spite Jung - psychology. Jung, considered the father of psychology, needed no lecture from me on the importance and power of mythology. Mythology, regardless of how many people attempt to diminish its power by conflating it with "falsehood", is much more than just fanciful tales. Mental illness is no mythology. This point was either largely ignored or not understood.

In taking the O.P. to task for this imprudent choice of word, I also - and correctly so - acknowledged that since 1997 there has been a quite obvious paradigm shift in the way psychiatry and even psychologists treat mental illness, not to mention, the gross expansion of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The DSM has arbitrarily named behavior as mental illness, backed of certain behaviors they once claimed were mental illness (homosexuality) only to add a plethora of behaviors (depression and anxiety) far more common in any populace than homosexuality. The paradigm has shifted from therapy as treatment to drugging as treatment, and not coincidentally that paradigm shift has happened at the same time the pharmaceutical companies were allowed direct marketing practices.

I have provided plenty of links to back up my own assertions that certain "mental illnesses" being diagnosed, such as depression, anxiety, and even ADD, or ADHD (pick your poison) - including NIMH - that illustrate the very serious problem that has arisen with this paradigm shift from therapy to drugging. Considering NIMH's own absurd assertions begrudgingly admit that there is no proof that depression is a mental illness and then do their best to convince a populace that depression is a mental illness, and considering the de jour treatment are drugs that themselves demonstrably create bigger problems, there is a clear and present danger to the indiscriminate use of "double blind studied" drugs. This has been largely ignored in this thread.

I have continued posting in this thread because there was a member who went from propaganda insisting that threads like this have no value and people need to take their medication, and then, alarmingly, began campaigning to have the thread closed. To the best of my knowledge, the O.P. is not hawking any drugs, even if that O.P. may, or may not be hawking a religion. I most certainly, and there is nothing at all about any of my posts in this thread to contradict what I am about to state, have not used this thread to hawk drugs, the efficacy of them, or any religion. You attempting to compare me to the O.P. is as annoying as the O.P. attempting to compare falsehoods with myths.

I have been very specific in my concerns about this indiscriminate use of drugs to treat behavior that is dubiously called mental illness. I have singled out depression, anxiety, and ADHD, as three of these behaviors that I know neither psychiatry, nor psychology has ever been able to show is genuinely a mental illness. The ADHD supply side marketing campaign is quite disturbing. The claim is that ADHD is caused by a chemical imbalance, but the diagnosis of this "chemical imbalance" is not discovered by means of blood tests, EEG's, or SCAT scans, rather it is "discovered" by a "trained professional" who after asking several questions determines the problem is a "chemical imbalance". If that ain't shamanistic then I don't know what the hell is.

All through my very specific efforts, I have seen emotional anecdotes offered as a "shame on you" to the O.P., and inexcusable generalizations, and ironically I am replying to a post that - in my humble opinion, given my profound respect for you and high expectations of you - uses nothing but generalization to imply I am generalizing. All the while few if any really want to have a meaningful discussion on why it is that depression and anxiety are now considered to be mental illnesses, and why so many people who clearly lack discipline in their lives are being told their "inability" to stay focused on boring things such as dry pedantic professors, or tedious menial labor is the result of a chemical imbalance and the "illness" they have is called ADHD.

I don't know if psychiatry and to a lesser degree psychology is "evil", but it sure seems that as these fields continue to expand their market base, the whole world just keeps getting, if not more insane or crazier, at the very least nuttier. Critical thinking does not seem all that welcomed by psychiatry, psychology, and their adherents.

Originally posted by Being_From_Earth
"That truth being mental illness is a myth"
Im not going to waste my time arguing about something so silly, because clearly mental illness is NOT a myth.
What about trauma based schizophrenia where the brain is actually malformed.
Thats just 1 physically proven form of mental illness.
There is many others.

100% spot on i for 1 have aspergers syndrome

Originally posted by LvSLoLo

Originally posted by Being_From_Earth
"That truth being mental illness is a myth"
Im not going to waste my time arguing about something so silly, because clearly mental illness is NOT a myth.
What about trauma based schizophrenia where the brain is actually malformed.
Thats just 1 physically proven form of mental illness.
There is many others.

100% spot on i for 1 have aspergers syndrome

Yep, I agree too.

Been a clinical depression sufferer for years and first diagnosed at aged 17.

Runs in the family and honestly, while I try not to take any medication, I've finally decided to try anti-depressants (citalopram) and they really work and help me stop thinking the worst all the time and I no longer get those crippling bouts of loneliness, self loathing and suicidal thoughts.