Obama’s “Civilian National Security Force” What does this mean to you?

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It appears candidate Obama, if elected, fully intends to recruit young citizens into something he calls a “national security force,” apparently a large paramilitary group “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the U.S. military. Obama made passing reference to this disturbing idea in a speech delivered in Chicago on July 2. As should be expected, the corporate media, with the exception on the Chicago Tribune, completely ignored the statement and its implications.

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www.infowars.com...

I don't know what this means to the rest of you, but I see it as an opportunity for the government to get their police in every corner of the country.

This is crazy. Two sides of the same coin.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Tapped In]

Trust me, there aren't many people as opposed to Obama being elected as I am. However, I have to see some real information on this.

Infowars is about as far from a credible source as you can get without flipping through a Weekly World News as far as I'm concerned.

Also, I've done some searching and have yet to find a reference to this supposed comment anywhere, and it isn't quoted in your source either.

So again, I'm no Obama fan, and I sure don't want to defend the guy; but I won't just accept things like this without proof.

I find one must take things that are said by Alex Jones and his group with a grain of salt...I used to listen to him a bit, as well as read a lot of the InfoWars stuff...but, I find him to be a bit....over the top.

While I'm not saying that he, and his ilk, do not have some valid points. Nor am I disagreeing with a lot of the conspiratorial notions and anti-NWO sentiment. But, the InfoWars material is a bit too libertarian biased...or however one would choose to define "him/them."

If one reads the InfoWars article, it makes out as though Obama proposes some sort of "Hitler Youth" organisation prepping children to be SS/Ghestapo agents....it is poorly cited, and is clearly opinionated...

If one actually reads the Chicago Tribune article, a very different picture is painted. What becomes apparent is that, rather than creating a "Hitler Youth" group, Obama is calling for America's youth to take a more active role in community, as well as humanitarian, work, rather than anything Militaristic. In fact, he points out that Americans need to get away from looking at the world in a militaristic sense, how I read the article, as it says,

Obama repeated his pledge to boost the size of the active military. But he said the nation's future and safety depends on more than just additional service members.

"It also depends on the teacher in East L.A., or the nurse in Appalachia, the after-school worker in New Orleans, the Peace Corps volunteer in Africa, the Foreign Service officer in Indonesia," he said.

...

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," he said Wednesday. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

And furthermore, he suggests giving college students who serve their community tax credit.....well, that's certainly helpful with the ever increasing cost of higher education, isn't it?

For college students, Obama would set the goal at 100 hours of service a year and create a $4,000 annual tax credit for college students tied to that level of service.

In any case, I do not think that there is any sinister intent behind this call for national service....as I said, it looks humanitarian based to me...

But of course, there are those who will argue that thats how the Germans started their program...yadda yadda....

All in all, I don't think its a bad idea to have mandatory national service for middle and high school students, necessarily.... I was a teacher of middle and high school students, and the first thing that comes to mind when I think of the time I taught was that the kids had 1. no respect for eachother or their community and 2. no idea how lucky they were to be so utterly "free"...or rather carefree...

Sounds very much like a hitler youth in the making. God only knows how he thinks they will receive the same kind of funding as the military? The country HAS NO MONEY!!
But then, on the other hand, IF it could be funded, would it not be a good idea to have some opposition to the military industrial complex ? It all depends, i think, how he intends to use new youth army!!

Thanks for posting a credible source on that and putting the comments into context.



Now I can disagree with Obama for a reason!

reply to post by nyk537


I agree. The only thing I can find even remotely approaching this is some ambiguous wording regarding possible mandatory service in organizations such as the Peace Corps. That said, I think the mandatory part of that has been adequately debunked. And, of course, Peace Corps and other organizations are a far cry from what is being implied here.

I definitely don't want to see Obama elected, either, but I'm not buying this.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by vor78]

Originally posted by madhatr137

All in all, I don't think its a bad idea to have mandatory national service for middle and high school students, necessarily.... I was a teacher of middle and high school students, and the first thing that comes to mind when I think of the time I taught was that the kids had 1. no respect for eachother or their community and 2. no idea how lucky they were to be so utterly "free"...or rather carefree...

This may be one of the most disturbing posts I've ever read on ATS. You seem to be an intelligent thoughtful person and you come to what, in your mind, is a well-reasoned conclusion that the Federal government has the power to MANDATE minor children into forced labor.

We're talking kids 14-18 years old being forced at gun point to take some sort of action.

What you are not looking at is the other side of the coin. What if the "required" service is not done? What if the students do not fulfill their mandatory "service?" What is the penalty?

Where in the Constitution is the Federal government given authority to mandate how children spend their time?

reply to post by Tapped In


Infowars isn't a site to be getting cold hard facts, more speculation and judgments of the few that operate it.

It sounds like Blackwater, just under a different name. They obviously want to give the goons a nice warm and fuzzy name to make you feel all gooey inside.

Just the idea itself should set off alarm bells with all Americans.

Peace

This may be one of the most disturbing posts I've ever read on ATS. You seem to be an intelligent thoughtful person and you come to what, in your mind, is a well-reasoned conclusion that the Federal government has the power to MANDATE minor children into forced labor.

We're talking kids 14-18 years old being forced at gun point to take some sort of action.

What you are not looking at is the other side of the coin. What if the "required" service is not done? What if the students do not fulfill their mandatory "service?" What is the penalty?

Where in the Constitution is the Federal government given authority to mandate how children spend their time?

Wow, I've never had anyone react as so utterly shocked by a single thing I've said ever. It kind of shocks me.

First of all, the Federal Government can find a way to mandate anything it wants...it will not always be easy, but it will also not always be particularly difficult either...For instance, it would have been difficult for the Federal government to regulate the drinking age on a national level, one could argue that it could do so on moralistic or even more easily on a public welfare level, but it wasn't until it argued the public welfare stance and declared its dominance over state law through the Interstate Commerce Clause that it was able to regulate the sale of alcohol to "minors" on a national scale.

I don't even need to mention the Patriot Act of the breaches of FISA to make the point that when those that are in power want to do something, the Constitution does very little to stop them at this point and time in history, there is always a way around it...I do not agree with it, but it is a reality.

Secondly, no one is talking about forcing any children to do anything against their will at gunpoint...well, someone is, but it isn't Obama. If a school system thought it was a good idea to implement recommended or mandatory community service for its students before graduation, it could, it would have to get approval on a lot of levels, but it could. When I was in High School, my school was toying with the idea. When I was in college, I was required an unpaid internship before receiving my BA...I'd wager to say that at least 80% of my fellow classmates chose to volunteer for Community and Humanitarian NPOs. I was lucky enough to intern for a congressman.

Obama blatantly contrasts military service with the social service undertaken by the "teacher in East L.A., or the nurse in Appalachia, the after-school worker in New Orleans, the Peace Corps volunteer in Africa, the Foreign Service officer in Indonesia," implying that the later are what we need as this "national service."

There is no mention of anything "paramilitary" there is no "secret police" mentioned...but the fact remains that if you promote a form of behaviour when kids are still kids, lets say a more communitarian or "Republican"(in the Platonic sense, rather than the propagandized pundit sense) behaviour, those children are more likely to grow up to be better, more active citizens.

Do I know what the penalty will be if a student refuses to spend a little bit of his or her time helping his local community instead of playing his PS3, Wii or X-Box360? No, but I'll tell you what, there will be plenty of loopholes for parents to get their kids out of it.

At the end of the day, one has to see this for what it is. Obama is suggesting that more attention be paid to young students that they have to work a little bit harder, in their academics and in their personal lives. Kids have it too easy these days, and we've seen a dramatic increase of anti-social behaviour (sorry, I'm living in England at the moment) because kids these days lack direction, guidance, and most of all purpose.

All I will say further in this post is that I agree with Plato's Republic, nearly completely. Socrates is right, as far as I'm concerned...and yes, it is very relevant to this conversation.

Think for a second... Does it set off alarm bells or does it play into the minds of the children who spend their whole days shooting enemies on the screens of video games.

Our children are READY to be KILLERS...

Don't you think they CAN'T WAIT to join these military youth groups?

Well this is Change isn't it?

He has yet to tell us what "change" he is referring too...

Forced work
Hitler Youth
Socialist Taxation

That is all change after all...

Semper

Originally posted by Tapped In
Think for a second... Does it set off alarm bells or does it play into the minds of the children who spend their whole days shooting enemies on the screens of video games.

Our children are READY to be KILLERS...

Don't you think they CAN'T WAIT to join these military youth groups?

Once again, if you read the Chicago Tribune article, Obama's focus is clearly as far away from anything militaristic as it can possibly be....although I agree with you that today's youth do spend a disproportionate amount of time killing various digital enemies on a plethora of games, and yes, that could be seen as a form of social programming, correlation does not equal causation.

What is more suspect? Kids, as part of their academic regime, having to take on the additional "burden" of community service in a form they are allowed to choose, be it helping in a hospital, a retirement home, a social welfare office, etc; or the lowering of academic standards required for entrance into the armed, military, services, coupled with an increased push and allowance for military recruitment in public schools,(I've seen it first hand as a teacher) as well as at the plethora of army sponsored videogame competitions? Remember the Army putting on and recruiting at Halo Tournaments? The Army's own personal little videogame?

Originally posted by madhatr137
All in all, I don't think its a bad idea to have mandatory national service for middle and high school students, necessarily.... I was a teacher of middle and high school students, and the first thing that comes to mind when I think of the time I taught was that the kids had 1. no respect for eachother or their community and 2. no idea how lucky they were to be so utterly "free"...or rather carefree...

hey now nobody said a thing about being mandatory and plus mandatory service is clearly forbidden in the US constitution.

also.. freedom is not a privilege to "be lucky" to have, it is innate in everyone and guaranteed even to those who are "carefree" as you put it. the good of our nation is not above freedom, it abides by freedom or it is cast away.

Originally posted by madhatr137

At the end of the day, one has to see this for what it is. Obama is suggesting that more attention be paid to young students that they have to work a little bit harder, in their academics and in their personal lives. Kids have it too easy these days, and we've seen a dramatic increase of anti-social behaviour (sorry, I'm living in England at the moment) because kids these days lack direction, guidance, and most of all purpose.

All I will say further in this post is that I agree with Plato's Republic, nearly completely. Socrates is right, as far as I'm concerned...and yes, it is very relevant to this conversation.

At what point did this country deteriorate into a state in which somebody running for POTUS feels the need to micro-manage how my kids spend their spare time? Did it ever dawn on anybody that the role of the POTUS is to defend the Constitution and the rights it guarantees, and not to judge how we exercise these rights?

And people are ok with this?

We're further gone than I thought.

Prohibiting children from drinking is not anywhere close to requiring children to provide free labor to organizations approved by the government. This is one step removed from outright facism.

Of course requiring kids to attend government indoctrination camps, i.e., schools, is the same thing. Thank god for private schools.

My 15-year old daughter already staked her claim to be the first kid to defy any mandate like this if it's attempted.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Well this is Change isn't it?

He has yet to tell us what "change" he is referring too...

Forced work
Hitler Youth
Socialist Taxation

That is all change after all...

Semper

And it's consistent with Obama's whole "I'm embarrassed Americans can't speak a foreign language."

Obama is crossing the line from wanting to be a leader to acting as if he thinks of himself as some sort of all-knowing benevolent dictator.

"If only everybody would live like how I think they should live the world would be such a better place...." -Obama's vision for America

Originally posted by jamie83
And it's consistent with Obama's whole "I'm embarrassed Americans can't speak a foreign language."

No offense, but he's right. We're the dumbest, laziest first world people on the planet. There's nothing wrong with actually trying to learn something.

Originally posted by jamie83
Obama is crossing the line from wanting to be a leader to acting as if he thinks of himself as some sort of all-knowing benevolent dictator.

"If only everybody would live like how I think they should live the world would be such a better place...." -Obama's vision for America

I would have just left all that out. ALL politicians think they know what's better for you than you. How can you blame them?? Have you seen those people sitting behind the podium during a politician's speech? It's like a freakin' infomercial audience, laughing and clapping like ignorant buffoons!

Peace

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Dr Love]

Originally posted by madhatr137
If one actually reads the Chicago Tribune article, a very different picture is painted.

You're not talking about context, are you? CONTEXT??? Surely you're not suggesting we check out the full meaning of Obama's words in CONTEXT?!? That's for wussies.

Don't you know that it makes him look a lot more like Hitler if we just pick out little phrases and then assume and presume what he "means" and put the worst possible face on it???

That way everyone will be equally freaked out by him and won't vote for him.

Oh, no, sir. We'll have none of this context! I saw the word "required" and I'm just sure that means there'll be gunpoints involved! Obama will be holding the gun and forcing the children to do MANDATORY military service! Hitler Youth!! QUICK RUN!

What about the CHILDREN?!?!?!

/sarcasm

Thank you madhatr for having some sense about you.

And, by the way, if and when there's a "civilian national security force" actually in place, show me where to sign! I'm there! I'll be glad to help protect my country and its security!

reply to post by Tapped In


hi..ive been looking here and i cant find anything that mentions a 'youth'...can someone point me to the speech where obama actually stated that this security force will be full of 'youth'

This is obviously the same thing that Mussolini and Hitler did, not positive about Stalin. The Obama Youth. What a joke. That's change alright, a bunch of kids running around keeping notes about their parents and their neighbors. Turning in their friends and family for crimes against the state. Great idea Barry, thanks