So, Why do you Believe?

So, what's you reason for believing in God?
I'm a hard nosed skeptic, wasn't always, but i have been for the better part of 8 or so years now, and I'm not going back. That said, I'm not an athiest, I'm not a strict Christian, generally, people have said I'm agnostic, and I guess that's alright. I know He/She/It exists, but as for what the specifics are towards He/She/It/They is.
But the specifics aren't what I was oging to talk about here, it's about coincidences. Or rather, that I don't believ in 'em.
Small ones, sure, but big ones? Generally if you honk your horn, it's not a coincidence someone flicks you off. Y'know, that sort of bit.
Anyway, a while back, I was talking ot over in a chat room, with two really nice gals, who I probably will never forget. One was What'shername, and the other was Whatsherface. No seriously.
Ok, so I'm kidding about that bit. FI do remember their nbames, but they were chat names and it's been a few years, and most people aren't like me and stick to one name.

Sorry. Ran out of room. Also, I really hate the shift+backspace short key on PS3 that deletes ALL OF EVERYTHING YOU TYPE! Wish I had a PC here...
Right, where was I? Faith? Right then.
Them was a Wiccan, and had, what at the time, I thought was a pretty good reason for leaving Catholicism. I still understand it, and it's still a pretty good reason. This was actually before the big blowup about Catholic priests and... that bit you know. But she was tired of all of the contradictions, the absolutely horrible things done in the name of God. She basically raised her hand to the entire mess, and moved to the Wiccan religion. The real Wiccan religion, not the "I read a about a pagish of a Wiccanish page about witchcrafy and am now COVEN QUEEN!" or something. But she believed in it, and believed everyone needs to believe in something.

I'm getting to the point, honetly.
Great, just erased what I typed. Excuse me, I don't have a desk so I just hit myself on the head. I'm dizzy, and can't remember what I typed now.
Oh right,.
Red was, unlike me or Them, a moderate Chritian. She'd started out as a Christian at about the same time I had. Difference was, she'd had some better influences than me or Them.
Due to our differnet beliefs we'd have some very interesting conversations.
We'd all tried to convert each other, at some point or another.
(Yes, he finally is starting to get to the point!)
Me, as a staunch athiest, Red as a Christian, and Them more or less trying to prove i believed in something. ( Never understood that, I've always believed in the power of Cheese )
One point we were all talking about our beliefs, why we believed why we did, We were tossing our cards out on the table, basically.

As it turns out, Red with her Christianity and Easy ply Scripture quotes, and Them had her faith in belief, and faith in humanity (even if some of them needed a bat to the head sometimes [sometimes the bat needs a nail, she said]), and they both sort of trumped my 'Well, it makes sense if you look at it this way..." Worked about as well as when you tried to pass of a few pages of doodles as a royal flush as a kid.
Well. I did when I was a kid anyway.
So anyway, I was mentioning some of the reason I didn't believe, and Red was mentioning some Scriptures she felt pertained to me, and Them was talking to me about life and had some cliche's of a similar age to the quotes red was giving me.
Anyway, unlike the chat here, since it was the three of us, I'd had a book I was reading at the time (The Ear, the Eye, and the Arm in anyone's interested, there's probably some sort of symbolism there if I was more towards that sort of thing)
Anyway, as we were talking, I knocked the book off the desk...

Almost done...
Knocked the book off the table, and had to pick it up, of course. Noticed as I was picking it up, that there was a corner of a index card (pink, naturally, not blue. not even red...) that was poking out. I'd had the book for a good bit, got it from a Thrift Store.
Now, it could have been that the people running the thrift store, 'cause it was a Christian one, might have purposly left the card there. And it might have been that it was just a coincidence that the Bible quotes were the same ones Red had been tossing at me, or that the cliche about life, lemons, and a certain tasty beverage, and about feet and stnaidng and your personal feet.
Might even be a coincidence that just a few seconds ago, to myself, I'd asked that if God existed He'd give me some evidence that he did, nothing spectacular, just something that would work for me.
And like I said, not a big believer in coincidences, and had some other things later, but that was the main one. I lost the card, but not the memory.

I probably will never partake in an organized religion. It puts too much shame and guilt in our hearts.

Why do I believe? This might get long...

The size of our universe
Dreams
Love
The human brain
Art
Music
Creativity in general
The beauty of a sun rise/set
The first sip of a beer
Sex as a recreation
Meditation
Pyschadelics
The relative size of us (we are mere bacterium)
My girl
My cat and dog and the way they can see into my soul

Basically, anything that makes us do anything other than survive, is proof in a god.

The mere fact you even asks the question tells me it must be true.

We are animals of a very odd nature, and the more I dig into life, the more I bare my soul. And if I have a soul, well, I just don't think there is a science to that.

Good question.

i was thinking of posting but im not sure if your finished LOL

reply to post by miriam0566


Yep, sorry. Ran out of room, but didn't have enough for another post.
As for SantaClaus, I meant it more for people like me, coming mostly from a athiest stand point. I'm still trying to adjust the two, personaly.
As for organized religion, like I said, Red was part of that crowd, and she was able to take it and make it personal for her, so it works for some people. So for some people, it's right, for others, it's not. So, I've spent a lot of time working on my own beliefs.
But really, you probably had one main time you sort of had a light switch change you viewpoint, can you think of it?

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by miriam0566

 

But really, you probably had one main time you sort of had a light switch change you viewpoint, can you think of it?

Now THERE'S the question!

Its a really tough one to answer. I suppose I grew up with a Christian background and always just assumed. Recently, during college, I slipped into a pretty depressed state for about 4 years (just now turning the corner- long way to go still) because I just didn't see it. I don't know if it was my personal issues that were the problem or if my issues were to deal with the fact that I lost hope in higher power.

My moment was when I found purpose for living. I assumed that if there was no afterlife, then surely enjoying this life was futile. But about 4 months ago I got a call to do a job that had failed for me numerous times, music. This was exciting for me, and I had nothing to lose, so I drove 3500 miles in 3 days to start my work. I haven't looked back since. It finally happened, and while I realize it may fail again, its given me a new outlook.

The outlook helped me to see beauty again in things I wasn't looking at before. I don't want to get into that uber-positive bull**** that leads many people to religion. I mean, I finally have found a stool on which to sit and look around me for something.

From this stool I can see other parts of my life more clearly. I still have major issues that cloud my vision, but its getting better.

I see my newborn nephew and I almost bawl at how amazing that new life is. I also see death as something beautiful, now. Before it seemed like it was inevitable, but now I see something beyond it.

I don't want to get too convuluted, but I find that my faith in any God has come through based on the fact that I had hit bottom and was given a way out. Now things just seem brighter than they did before.

Its something you could write books on, and I can't give you a specific moment, all I can say is that I finally have found a purpose to my life, and I don't credit God with that, but I certainly thank him for the opportunity.

Just saying, I think cinicism is healthy. I think you should fight religion and question everything. But simple beauty to me, is something that a scientist could never explain.

I probably went off on a tangent, sorry

reply to post by RuneSpider

you probably had one main time you sort of had a light switch change you viewpoint

Not for me.
I am not a convert.
I have always been a believer.
I have had certain times of enlightenment, where something becomes clearer to me, but it always comes after a lot of previous work on the subject.
I do not believe in free enlightenment.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
But really, you probably had one main time you sort of had a light switch change you viewpoint, can you think of it?

its a question that forces me to reveal certain things about me that i dont like to talk about.

i grew up in tribulation. the bible was the only thing i was allowed to read. i say "allowed" but the fact is i wasnt. i was allowed to go to church on sunday when i reached 10 years old, there i stole a bible and brought it home so noone knew. a woman name marigracia was teaching me how to read. i was also learning english at the time.

i read the bible every morning when noone else knew and said my prayers just like the priest said i should. but still, everyday i grew bitter. the question that came to mind is "why does god allow me to live in this hell? my life was sin, did this mean that a fiery hell waited for me on the other side? which hell is worse? why is god doing this to me?

then a few years after, i was in the street, i went to the church i usually went to and was taken in. over the next several years, i got too see that the church was not god's organization. the hypocracy and lack of respect for god's word appalled me. but also i began to lose faith.

i had a friend, who fell in love with me, but we were from separate worlds. i remember her friends would talk about things like these. evolution kept coming up and how the bible was the work of man. i started to believe this. i have to admit though, it still came back to the question, why did god let me live this horrible life that i had lived?

i friend of mine lent me this book on philosophy, and it mentioned kent "i think, therefore i am". it was a way of reasoning that you use when you cant trust anything.

i thought about it, and decided to apply a similiar thinking to god. how can i reason if god exists if i cant trust the bible or any other religion.

after awhile of thinking i came to the conclusion that something cannot come from nothing. either god always existed or the universe always existed. some HAD to have not had a beginning. since the universe has evidence of a beginning, i concluded that chances are a god exists.

i think at this point you would call me agnostic.

so then question again, if there is a god why does he let us suffer? i thought there was several different possibilites,

- god was an impersonal force, not a person
- god was simply not concerned for us
- god was concerned, but im missing something.

to answer that question, i had to ask a different one.

does god want us to worship him? if the answer was no, then, everything is inconsequential and life is just a wind, enjoy it while it lasts because soon you will be dead (a philosophy alot of my friends hold dear). if yes then how is he telling us. he could just tell us, but obviously he isnt, so i figured maybe there was a reason he wasnt.

my first guess was to look at the bible. if the word of god was infact the word of god, then i could find answers in it.

long story short (too late) i concluded that the bible was the word of god, there were too many things about the bible that struck me as more than coincidence. (i could post this information in another thread if anyone likes, but to be honest i have a notebook dedicated to this subject because there is so much information)

at one point i decided to pray, (i think this is the lightswitch part) and i addressed it to the almighty god of the bible. the next day, jw's knocked on my door and offer me this leaflet "why does god permit suffering."

it took it and read it and was amazed that it cited scriptures. every point in the leaflet had a scripture to back it up. they offered to study, so i accepted. i learned alot of them. i would have become one, except i am gay. and yes i do believe that homosexuality is expressly forbidden in the bible.

i dont have sex since im not married, so technically i guess one can say im ok since im not "practicing", but my conscience wouldnt allow me to get baptized.

but taking the thing i learned and studyed over my short lifetime, i feel there is a god and there is a true religion.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Lemme get this straight, it was NOT free. More things went on than a chat, and it wasn't talking with people that made me loose my faith.
Anyway, like I said earlier, this is more for the mostly athiest crowd who had something of a paradigm shift, I'm looking more for people who had something bizzare happen when they needed it, really. More importantly, it's fine to be a believer, if you get the oppurtunity, take it.
Just don't begrudge other people who had to walk or climb a different path to get toawrds where your going.

reply to post by miriam0566


Thanks you, very much for sharing. Didn't think I'd get someone from your position in a thread like this, but I'm glad you wanted to share,
Like I said, I'm still plodding along in the dark, but I think religion is more of a personal nature myself, and it's probably a unique expierience for all of us.
Hopefully you'll help others who feel similarly to you on their path.
Coming from me, it's kind of corny, but I hope you well with your journey, and i hope you find someone to lean on, or have found someone.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
Coming from me, it's kind of corny, but I hope you well with your journey, and i hope you find someone to lean on, or have found someone.

i have a rule, i sometimes read posts 4, 5 times before replying. my english is good but sometimes i have dificulty

initially i read that like you were telling me i was corny lol

thanky uo for the kind words though

reply to post by miriam0566


Sorry, and no worries, I speak English, born American and speak only English, and I still have to reread some threads and posts.
The only corny thing around here is me.

reply to post by RuneSpider

this is more for the mostly athiest crowd who had something of a paradigm shift,

I am not comparing myself to anyone or trying to say anything about your story.
I realized you were asking this of someone else.
I just do not like long questions, so when I saw the light switch thing, I thought it was a question that is simple.
Being born a believer is not all that great.
To be more accurate, I was born into a believing family, with older siblings that were educated in the faith.
So, I was constantly exposed to being taught, from birth.
I do not remember ever not believing.
What happened, later, was to start to believe that I could not ever meet the high standards of my own faith.
So, eventually I had to go through what everyone does and allow myself to be saved and recognize that I could not save myself.
Lucky for me, my brother was working for a print shop and he picked through the best stuff and gave it to me.
It was articles on the works of the Reformers on Salvation.

Damn son alittle too much improvising in your post and things we didn't need to know, but God bless your soul and I see you have alot of sincerity.


what's my reason for believing in God?

Well for starters I haven't had a normal life. The first thing God has taught me this whole life is suffering, I have suffered since I was a teen, constantly. What suffering does is humble you out, makes you appretaite things gives you patience and builds your soul like crazy.

Now the reason I believe is in miracles and nature. nature is too beatiful, it just is, and we have Male Female, private parts both made for each other, how does nothing do this? It cannot. So nature, the human body ect.... is one thing.



The second thing is miracles. I have seen God work in my life countless times, I have seen cancer cured from a priest in it's deadly stages. I have seen and read about saints who lived lives of miracles, not just regular stuff, man I'm talking about the age of faith in the 1500s when saints raised dead people back to life.

It's sad that faith doesn't exist today. Like the girl in my signature.




Now I mus address Santa cluase. Again I see little understanding in these forums. Which are graces, which means I see few graces.


" religion puts too much shame and guilt in our hearts "


this is false. God doesn't want you to live with guilt or shame, matter of fact, I read the saints lives, he told them, if you fall or commit a wrong like lying or something, he said don't remember it, forget it right away and move on and try harder.

God is a motivational speaker, I have read him speak to the saints and he speaks like a motivational speaker. God expects great things from souls as our earthly parents woul, no different.


And also as for the other person who said that you leave a church because of hypocrites. The church teachings and the thing God founded itself is (not) the hypocrite and that is an excuse to leave something. Instead of leaving because of hypocrites, pray for their souls, who knows if they will turn around or not. God don't want us to cop out because hypocrites give us an excuse too.



God bless you all.