So because I dont believe this guys story with no evidence, that makes me a CIA , NSA, FBI operative

Originally posted by Sandals24
Investigations need to be un bias otherwise they hold no weight, just because someone doesnt agree with you, doesnt mean they are working for the Government..

So which branch DO YOU work for? I mean there are so many these days and now we even have Space Spooks Now can you prove to me that you are NOT a "Disinfo Agent"? All we have is YOUR WORD that you are not...



And therein lies the problem...

In a court of law, if a single person says he saw you kill someone... and swears its the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth... chances are good that along with other circumstantial evidence...

YOU ARE GUILTY... I mean why would that citizen lie?

Yet here someone comes and swears on his mothers grave that he saw a UFO, or a Black Ops plane while on duty, or was abducted by an Alien...

How long does it take before the ridicule and the attacks and demands for 'proof' start?

Lets take an hypothetical example...

Some "Joe" worked at Lockheed Martin and saw an anti gravity drive unit inside a plane made by us...

He quits or is fired and now wants to tell someone...

However...
IF he tells someone and gives his name rank and serial number he is violating federal law and CAN go to prison for treason...

IF he took a photo of it with his cell phone or took a paper out of the trash... same thing... he can expect a one way ticket to that nice vacation village at Gitmo...

Now he hears about ATS... he is under the impression that here of all places he will find people that will listen to him...

But does that happen? NO He is automatically branded a hoaxer by many that make it their 'mission' to debunk everyone that walks in the door... heck its almost like a pack of vultures at the entry to Death Valley...

IF that person shows credential... they are hounded and dragged over the coals... not stone unturned tearing apart those credential... the amount of effort expended in this is quite astounding to me...

People here cry "Deny Ignorance"...

Most of the time that translates to "If you don't belief main stream you ARE ignorant" Funny how it is mostly skeptics that use this rally cry... but in a recent thread where I presented a NOVA program interviewing those "Secret Astronauts" that we have been talking about with much ridicule... all of a sudden the skeptics were silent... Not one 'man' enough to say "Oh you were right..." Nice way to "Deny Ignorance" slink out the door hope no one sees you

People here call out for disclosure "Why do those on the 'inside' not speak up?" Well any TRUE insider only needs to spend a few weeks here to see the reactions to a story...

Ask yourself this... IF YOU had a story to tell... would YOU feel comfortable putting it on the table here knowing that since the holes they drilled in your head have healed you have no proof?

So what you get is the hoaxers, the attention seekers and others who pray on the gullible and once in a while a genuine story comes along... and like the boy who cried wolf... it is lost in the noise

I do find it amazing though how many flags and pages some threads get on nothing

Bottom line is there is no disclosure here... only debate about it
There is no proof here... because if there WAS proof the person holding that proof would be calling CNN or selling it to the highest bidder... so all we can hope for is circumstantial evidence and a good story

As far as UFO's go... I have my own 'data' which I use to compare stories... I would rather listen to a good eyewitness than waste hours pouring over photos and videos that even the dumbest kid with a good computer can create these days... and if I provided them with my 'list' :LOL: they would make some dandy ones

So all we have here is debate... more debate and when that wears down the tempers flare and the insults fly

I come here because once in a while there is a good story... and I can follow a trail... and that has led to many doors...

But this also comes at a price... sometimes you are told things you cannot repeat... and believe me that sucks big time

Originally posted by NGC2736
Here's my personal perspective.



And debunking is an art form here. A person comes to ATS with a crazy story because he can't go public/mainstream. And the reason he can't is because the skeptics out there will label him nuts the minute he opens his mouth. So we provide a sanctuary where he can safely tell his story, no matter how odd, and feel reasonably safe from labels and gang tactics. You can still debunk his story, but you can't do it by calling the person crazy, or verbally attacking him. What's so difficult about being civil? What's so hard about reading the OP, deciding it's not for you, and moving on to something more interesting?

But some here have made it a lifes work to build their ego base on how many times they can be first to yell "hoax" on something. Others "attack post" like a starved German Shepherd going after a tasty postman. And still others, a minority, express their opinion calmly and go about their business. Guess who is seen as the smartest and best adjusted and most mature out of these different styles?

The ego "trippers" feel good about themselves for being first in a race only they percieve, which makes it a Special Olympics event, only they don't know it. The "mad dogs" get to bask in their macho image, but never realize they look like a '50s teenager with greased back hair and a tough expression. And the "educated" poster gets to choose whats worth looking at, what isn't, and doesn't waste his time on trivia, while looking cool and urbane.

The choice is yours. But just like every crowd, it doesn't take long to sort out the people worth being around from those you write off as blowhards.

very well put, ngc; too often it is the language and the manner of the reply/question/demand that is out of context and tends to rub the wrong way; the sharing of a personal experience should be taken as just that, and be studied and decided upon individually, not vehemently and accompanied by insults and name calling; sure, some people make fantastic claims just to stir everyone up, and those are not difficult to weed out and ignore; but constant demands for proof of an event from the past or making statements about delusional tendecies/ behaviors are not necessary, and if you cannot debate without mud-slinging then that thread or post is not worthy of debate or my time, and occasional use of the ignore feature makes the insults diminish rapidly.

just my 2 cents

reply to post by zorgon

as usual good work and thoughts, Zorgon; everyone yammering for disclosure seems to miss the concept that revealing anything deemed classified is an act of treason and carries some hefty penalties; but then again it's not their tail feathers singeing over the flames......

i think most people who say these kind of things , get frustrated when the op doesn't absorb any of the points being made, or vice versa. or if there is certain evidence that is very clear to someone , and makes sense completely but then the op doesn't see it . The person then gets pissed at the op questioning his intelligence, saying somehting like " how could you not realize what is going on , you must be truly stupid , or work for the government." when it is simply individual opinions, if you truly believe in something , and i truly believe in something it is very unlikely that convincing you is a waste of time , unless i have factual evidence that cannot be denied. Otherwise let the people have their own opinions.though it is hard when your in the heat of an argument, and lose it based on someone's ignorance , or not accepting what you have to say.

reply to post by NGC2736


A most intelligent post, thank you. I have problems with people who follow me from thread to thread attacking me even when i post a comment on someone else's thread. I post tons of evidence, mostly pictures, but i also post comments made by scientists and philosophers. These people disrupt the threads with their bad attitudes and take the fun out of communicating with others. As the OP i have to suffer through their snide comments and insults and am penalized if i respond in a comeback. I think people should have to be the OP on at least two successful threads before they are allowed to comment on others work. Your truth's do not outweigh "my truth's, nor your facts, mine." Just because someone post's what they consider definitive proof that the OP is wrong does not mean the OP has to accept it. That is what the debate is for. I post images that 95% of the people can't see, but i post for the 5 % who can. Most respond on u2u because they don't want to be harassed, that is wrong. It is censorship at its worst I do think moderators who monitor the threads should issue private warnings to these people who never ask questions and generally have no concept what the thread is about. I really like that "stick to the topic" and "off topic deleted"

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by azzllin
Perhaps it is the manner in which you disagree?

With some people, it does not matter how well-reasoned or respectful your response is. They will not accept it, and attack you personally, in the guise of exposing you as a "disinfo agent" or "pseudoskeptic." Instead of debating your point, they want to to discuss who you are or your motivation. In essence, shouting you down so they can shut down debate.

the only time I get suspicious is when folks try to pry personal info out of a poster...thats not cool...debate and inquiry is constructive and should take place - the last time I brought this point up on a recent thread the offending person made the most disgusting comments in response - all he had to do was say - "sorry - didn't mean anything by asking" but instead tried to derail the thread and went after me like a house on fire...

Also it seems that some folk prefer sarcasm and personal attack to debate...so that can be seen as less than polite inquiry....