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Could Bigfoot be an Extra-Terrestrial?
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reply to post by SaviorComplex
What you and Vance have mistaken is that we're trying to "prove" anything. It's a speculative discussion.
And Antar, it would appear that you didn't actually read my post. Not all of it, anyway. Please do so.
What you and Vance have mistaken is that we're trying to "prove" anything. It's a speculative discussion.
And Antar, it would appear that you didn't actually read my post. Not all of it, anyway. Please do so.
Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Originally posted by polomontana
Vance, I'm actually glad you posted because your post shows a good example of pseudoskepticism.
It's basically using skepticism as a crutch to what you already believe instead of a tool to search for the truth.
Polomontana, NephraTari, and Teratoma are mischaracterizing what Vance said, ignoring the context in which it was said, and at the same time, proving his point.
Yes, he did say you are using the unprovable to prove the unproven. He also says: "Let's prove one or the other or both or something lol!"
That is not pseudoskepticism, or whatever non-sense buzzword you want to employ. You are engaging in pseudoscience, "proving" the existence of something unsubstantiated via the unsubstantiated*. You are not forwarding a theory, a hypothesis, or anything of the sort. You are using baseless speculation and circular logic.
What Vance and I are both saying is that instead of using the unsubstantiated to prove Bigfoot's (or any other anomalous phenomena) existence, you should use the observable and verifiable. That is a far-cry from your accusations of pseudoskepticism or from your employment of pseudoscience and circular logic.
(*yes, I believe in the existence of Bigfoot. However, I concede the evidence suggests but does not prove, its existence)
Complex,
Your posts doesn't make sense.
First, you talk about unproven.
Again, things like time travel, black holes, dark matter, dark energy, quantum loop gravity, quantum braids, holographic principle couldn't be discussed according to your standards because their isn't ABSOLUTE PROOF.
You and Vance would wipe out entire fields of study in a SINGLE BOUND with that logic.
Secondly, things within ufology are not unsubstantiated claims.
In my mind these things are proven beyond any reasonable doubt based on my own sightings and the direct and circumstantial evidence that supports things within ufology.
Did you or Vance read the title of the thread?
It seems pseudoskeptics feel the need to turn every thread into a debate on wether these things exist because they are theatened by the mere discussion of these things in the context of logic and reason.
If you want to debate wether bigfoot is a myth, then go to the proper folder and start a thread about it.
Look at threads on this board. You will notice the pseudoskeptic trying to start a debate that has nothing to do with the thread.
They fear things that go beyond their 3 dimensional view of reality. They want the universe tied up in a box and everything has to be explained in a context that fits their pre-existing belief system.
So please, if you want to debate wether bigfoot is a myth go to the proper folder and start a thread about it.
I thank the other posters for their intelligent responses and please excuse Vance and Complex need to try and turn threads into debates about their personal beliefs.
That's truly a COMPLEX .
[edit on 14-7-2008 by polomontana]
While I don't have too much faith in the few I've read...there is a slight history of "Bigfoot-like" beings in connection with UFO sightings and
CE3K cases.
Then again, there are also cases of "robot-like" aliens, etc.
The majority of reports tend to stick with the "Greys", "Greens", "Oranges" or "Nordic types, but there is at least some small number of cases which fall outside of this....
My personal feelings are that Bigfoot-like creatures are or were simply surviving members of a past mankind relative....and not aliens.
[edit on 14-7-2008 by Gazrok]
Then again, there are also cases of "robot-like" aliens, etc.
The majority of reports tend to stick with the "Greys", "Greens", "Oranges" or "Nordic types, but there is at least some small number of cases which fall outside of this....
My personal feelings are that Bigfoot-like creatures are or were simply surviving members of a past mankind relative....and not aliens.
[edit on 14-7-2008 by Gazrok]
reply to post by polomontana
i have, for a long time pondered the bigfoot enigma. many sightings, never any physical proof. the fact is, if they really, physically exist on our late 3rd dimensional planet, they must be intelligent. if they were merely "animals", there would be physical proof. there are many, many possible origins for the bigfeet. one that scares me though, is the lord of the rings theory. you know, they were cooked up in one of the underground labs, to slaughter and eat humans. one thing i have learned in this life is to never call anything an impossibility. when the stuff starts to hit the fan, and our dimensional shift is in full swing, i hope i never meet a bigfoot.
i have, for a long time pondered the bigfoot enigma. many sightings, never any physical proof. the fact is, if they really, physically exist on our late 3rd dimensional planet, they must be intelligent. if they were merely "animals", there would be physical proof. there are many, many possible origins for the bigfeet. one that scares me though, is the lord of the rings theory. you know, they were cooked up in one of the underground labs, to slaughter and eat humans. one thing i have learned in this life is to never call anything an impossibility. when the stuff starts to hit the fan, and our dimensional shift is in full swing, i hope i never meet a bigfoot.
reply to post by polomontana
i have, for a long time pondered the bigfoot enigma. many sightings, never any physical proof. the fact is, if they really, physically exist on our late 3rd dimensional planet, they must be intelligent. if they were merely "animals", there would be physical proof. there are many, many possible origins for the bigfeet. one that scares me though, is the lord of the rings theory. you know, they were cooked up in one of the underground labs, to slaughter and eat humans. one thing i have learned in this life is to never call anything an impossibility. when the stuff starts to hit the fan, and our dimensional shift is in full swing, i hope i never meet a bigfoot.
i have, for a long time pondered the bigfoot enigma. many sightings, never any physical proof. the fact is, if they really, physically exist on our late 3rd dimensional planet, they must be intelligent. if they were merely "animals", there would be physical proof. there are many, many possible origins for the bigfeet. one that scares me though, is the lord of the rings theory. you know, they were cooked up in one of the underground labs, to slaughter and eat humans. one thing i have learned in this life is to never call anything an impossibility. when the stuff starts to hit the fan, and our dimensional shift is in full swing, i hope i never meet a bigfoot.
Originally posted by polomontana
Good find Tallwhites, I will have to check out that book.
Do an Amazon search for "Huyghe" and "field guide", there you'll find the book he wrote.
Very interesting read
Originally posted by polomontana
First, you talk about unproven.
Again, things like time travel, black holes, dark matter, dark energy, quantum loop gravity, quantum braids, holographic principle couldn't be discussed according to your standards because their isn't ABSOLUTE PROOF.
You and Vance would wipe out entire fields of study in a SINGLE BOUND with that logic.
Quite o the contrary. This proves you have no idea how science works. Many of those things are theoretical; being is that there is evidence, verifiable and observable, that allows us to make predictions about the unobservable. There is no comparion between story about UFOs (and that's all it is, a story), unsubstantiated I may add, and that of scientific theories of the above.
Secondly, things within ufology are not unsubstantiated claims.
Originally posted by polomontana
In my mind these things are proven beyond any reasonable doubt...
Enough said. Your opinion is neither scientific theory or law.
Originally posted by polomontana
It seems pseudoskeptics feel the need to turn every thread into a debate on wether these things exist because they are theatened by the mere discussion of these things in the context of logic and reason.
And you turn every thread into a debate on what types of skepticism are allowed. If one does not agree with you, you tell them their posts are "pseudoskepticism" or "unintelligent."
Originally posted by polomontana
If you want to debate wether bigfoot is a myth, then go to the proper folder and start a thread about it.
Look at threads on this board. You will notice the pseudoskeptic trying to start a debate that has nothing to do with the thread.
So please, if you want to debate wether bigfoot is a myth go to the proper folder and start a thread about it.
No child. You are not the arbitratior of what happens here, or what we can discuss. And we are on topic. Neither of us are debating the existence of Bigfoot.
Debate our theories. Not us. You are attempting to distract by attacking us.
Originally posted by polomontana
I thank the other posters for their intelligent responses and please excuse Vance and Complex need to try and turn threads into debates about their personal beliefs.
You are the only one doing that. We were debating the theory. Debate the theory, not us. Do not turn this into a debate about is.
Complex,
Again you miss the ball.
If you knew anything about theoretical physics, you would know that many of these theories are unproven yet they are debated everyday.
Read Physics of the Impossible or The Physics of Immortality. I can go on and on but in your mind these things can be debated using reason and logic but things like ufology and the paranormal can't be debated in this way because of your pre-existing belief system.
I can prove that you don't exist. I can show through simulation theory thay you are just a simulation of another universe that has attained advanced quantum computing and this is why the universe behaves like a quantum computer because it is a quantum computer.
Prove me wrong.
This is why your post doesn't make any sense in the context of this thread.
When Vance posted on the thread, other posters responded because it was silly.
What does bigfoot being a myth have to do with the price of tea in China?
The debate was about could bigfoot be an extraterrestrial.
If I wanted to debate wether bigfoot was a myth, I would have started a thread about it.
I'm skeptical of bigfoot, but I can discuss these things in the context of reason and logic.
Pseudoskeptic feel they have to inject their belief on the subject of bigfoot in order to "bring some reality to the debate."
This is because they are threatened by anything that's outside of their pre-existing belief system.
If you want to debate wether bigfoot exists, then start a thread about it.
These things are not unsubstantiated, they are only unsubstantiated in your mind.
What you are talking about is opinion, I'm talking about evidence.
How do you know that gravity wasn't mathematically inputed into a quantum computer and you are a simulation and you don't even know it?
The fact is you don't know. This is what's wrong with pseudoskepticism.
They are scared to say they don't know. In a universe that we don't fully understand, you can't know.
The pseudoskeptics goes a step further and they say other people can't know about some of these things. Does this make any sense?
They speak in ABSOLUTES about life after death.
They speak in ABSOLUTES about ufology.
They speak in ABSOLUTES about paranormal events.
This is because they have a desire to define the universe in the context of their pre-existing belief.
They are not comfortable in their beliefs so they want you to accept their view. This is why they want these threads to descend into a debate about the existence of these things.
I'm fine with that, because it helps me to illustrate how illogical pseudoskepticism is.
[edit on 14-7-2008 by polomontana]
Again you miss the ball.
If you knew anything about theoretical physics, you would know that many of these theories are unproven yet they are debated everyday.
Read Physics of the Impossible or The Physics of Immortality. I can go on and on but in your mind these things can be debated using reason and logic but things like ufology and the paranormal can't be debated in this way because of your pre-existing belief system.
I can prove that you don't exist. I can show through simulation theory thay you are just a simulation of another universe that has attained advanced quantum computing and this is why the universe behaves like a quantum computer because it is a quantum computer.
Prove me wrong.
This is why your post doesn't make any sense in the context of this thread.
When Vance posted on the thread, other posters responded because it was silly.
What does bigfoot being a myth have to do with the price of tea in China?
The debate was about could bigfoot be an extraterrestrial.
If I wanted to debate wether bigfoot was a myth, I would have started a thread about it.
I'm skeptical of bigfoot, but I can discuss these things in the context of reason and logic.
Pseudoskeptic feel they have to inject their belief on the subject of bigfoot in order to "bring some reality to the debate."
This is because they are threatened by anything that's outside of their pre-existing belief system.
If you want to debate wether bigfoot exists, then start a thread about it.
These things are not unsubstantiated, they are only unsubstantiated in your mind.
What you are talking about is opinion, I'm talking about evidence.
How do you know that gravity wasn't mathematically inputed into a quantum computer and you are a simulation and you don't even know it?
The fact is you don't know. This is what's wrong with pseudoskepticism.
They are scared to say they don't know. In a universe that we don't fully understand, you can't know.
The pseudoskeptics goes a step further and they say other people can't know about some of these things. Does this make any sense?
They speak in ABSOLUTES about life after death.
They speak in ABSOLUTES about ufology.
They speak in ABSOLUTES about paranormal events.
This is because they have a desire to define the universe in the context of their pre-existing belief.
They are not comfortable in their beliefs so they want you to accept their view. This is why they want these threads to descend into a debate about the existence of these things.
I'm fine with that, because it helps me to illustrate how illogical pseudoskepticism is.
[edit on 14-7-2008 by polomontana]
I believe there are connections. I'm sure this has been here before because I posted it before just a different site but this will do and I think you
might find it interesting.
www.thewatcherfiles.com...
www.thewatcherfiles.com...
Yes, there have been notions (not really "theories," because how can you test them?), that Bigfoot and aliens and a lot of this truly paranormal
stuff is all kind of linked together.
The overall thought is that reality is not quite as solid as it seems to our little minds, and it's influenced by all kinds of things like:
1. our consciousnesses interacting with spacetime on a quantum level
2. random and perfectly natural fluctuations in time, space, and reality
3. intelligent entities that are creating this reality via consciousness
4. and so on.
So while it's impossible for Bigfoot or UFOs to maintain themselves for long periods of time in our reality, they occasionally "filter through" into our reality from someplace else (who knows where?), and then float back out of it. Which is why UFOs and Bigfoot and other similar things seem to just vanish without leaving behind much in the way of physical traces. Because they only partially exist in this reality.
It's a notion. Like I said, pretty hard to test.
The overall thought is that reality is not quite as solid as it seems to our little minds, and it's influenced by all kinds of things like:
1. our consciousnesses interacting with spacetime on a quantum level
2. random and perfectly natural fluctuations in time, space, and reality
3. intelligent entities that are creating this reality via consciousness
4. and so on.
So while it's impossible for Bigfoot or UFOs to maintain themselves for long periods of time in our reality, they occasionally "filter through" into our reality from someplace else (who knows where?), and then float back out of it. Which is why UFOs and Bigfoot and other similar things seem to just vanish without leaving behind much in the way of physical traces. Because they only partially exist in this reality.
It's a notion. Like I said, pretty hard to test.
reply to post by Nohup
I was just talking about this today - we were talking about the concept of mind-over-matter, and how modern science is really starting to indulge such concepts.
So are you saying that if the collective consciousness believes strongly enough in Bigfoot or UFOs, then they'll somehow materialize and actually exist in this world, even if just for a minute?
I was just talking about this today - we were talking about the concept of mind-over-matter, and how modern science is really starting to indulge such concepts.
So are you saying that if the collective consciousness believes strongly enough in Bigfoot or UFOs, then they'll somehow materialize and actually exist in this world, even if just for a minute?
reply to post by Alxandro
Bigfoot and flying saucers and hidden mountain bases have had a relationship from even before Six Million Dollar Man... but the fact that it made it into the story-line of one of the most popular TV shows in the 70's tells me there might be a thread of truth to it... ("X-Files" Chris Carter is no dummy, he did his homework and slipped in some truth every now and then)...
Bigfoot and flying saucers and hidden mountain bases have had a relationship from even before Six Million Dollar Man... but the fact that it made it into the story-line of one of the most popular TV shows in the 70's tells me there might be a thread of truth to it... ("X-Files" Chris Carter is no dummy, he did his homework and slipped in some truth every now and then)...
Could big foot be an Extra-Terrestrial?
No.
I think he is a big monkey with lots of hair!
A primate!
Very smart and very elusive!
Listen, There is a guy in Ontario, Canada who studies Wolverines. He does this for the Canadian goverment.
Guess what? He has never, ever seen one. The closest he has gotten is
FRESH tracks. And thats a big weisel.
I have seen Wolverine's. In La Ronge Saskatchewan!
So...if Big Foot is smarter then the average weisel then yea it would be very hard to find him!
[edit on 14-7-2008 by whiteraven]
No.
I think he is a big monkey with lots of hair!
A primate!
Very smart and very elusive!
Listen, There is a guy in Ontario, Canada who studies Wolverines. He does this for the Canadian goverment.
Guess what? He has never, ever seen one. The closest he has gotten is
FRESH tracks. And thats a big weisel.
I have seen Wolverine's. In La Ronge Saskatchewan!
So...if Big Foot is smarter then the average weisel then yea it would be very hard to find him!
[edit on 14-7-2008 by whiteraven]
Originally posted by TallWhites
According to a book I have Bigfoot is exactly that, another alien type of species
Here's a scanned page:
Click on this link to view full page: aycu06.webshots.com...
[edit on 14-7-2008 by TallWhites]
Man if this is real, and i got to witness such an event i could die happy. But whats up with firing at them? I mean who wouldnt be scared #less , but under the circumstances i would atleast try and approach them, in a non hostile way. " Then they would probably kill or abduct me". Thats something i would risk given the oppurtunity to encounter something as amazing as this, WHEN IS MY TIME !!?!!?!?!?!
Originally posted by Nohup
Yes, there have been notions (not really "theories," because how can you test them?), that Bigfoot and aliens and a lot of this truly paranormal stuff is all kind of linked together.
The overall thought is that reality is not quite as solid as it seems to our little minds, and it's influenced by all kinds of things like:
1. our consciousnesses interacting with spacetime on a quantum level
2. random and perfectly natural fluctuations in time, space, and reality
3. intelligent entities that are creating this reality via consciousness
4. and so on.
So while it's impossible for Bigfoot or UFOs to maintain themselves for long periods of time in our reality, they occasionally "filter through" into our reality from someplace else (who knows where?), and then float back out of it. Which is why UFOs and Bigfoot and other similar things seem to just vanish without leaving behind much in the way of physical traces. Because they only partially exist in this reality.
It's a notion. Like I said, pretty hard to test.
WE know there is a consciousness so great that it was able to create all the potentialities of the universe in one thought, in that First 10 -43 second.. in the beginning."
Consciousness is the basic building block of the universe....
Bigfoots are Et's. And they're tightly allied with Nordic alliens. Both of those Et's get physical, ya dig.
Originally posted by polomontana
With only 4% of the universe known, how can you speak in ABSOLUTES? This happens when a belief system clashes with reason, so your threatened by the mere discussion of topics that threaten your pre-existing belief system.
Should we stop all discussion about the universe because we only know what 4% is?
I dont mean to be a pickle, but stateing that we only know 4% of the universe just isnt true. We dont have any clue how big it is. And until we do know exactly how big it is, you cant say that we know any percentage of it.
To contribute to the thread, When I saw the title, I immediatly clicked on it to post a smart-ass remark about how "Ive been on ATS for w decent while now, and this is the most ludicrous thread ive seen yet." Until I read it, its very logical, and although I have never seen a bigfoot, or a UFO, ill buy your theory. God i would die a happy man if I saw a UFO.
reply to post by whiteraven
I agree with you. I read Everything you know is Wrong by Lloyd Pye. He proposes that bigfoots etc are hominoids. Then later in the book he starts taking the same view as Sitchin about the current human race with hominoids providing some of the genes.An interesting point he makes is our strenghth reduction compared to apes etc. Our dna too is 22 compared to there 24 (is that right, going from memory)
As far as never finding remains he says the acidic forrest floor will decompose the bones.He also points out any hi level preditor bones are seldom found. As for never seeing one it's like Whiteraven said only in the book he used an example of a certain kind panda,can't remember the breed. Theres alot of territory out there.About 70 % of the surface of the the globes land is unsurveyed. Out of the 30 % that has been surveyed on foot onlt about 20% of that area can be called well surveyed.The unsurveyed 70% is more or less uncharted territory.There is a 33% of the land on the earth that is unihabitable.Leaves alot of land out there. It's a book worth reading anyway.
There is also a story (one of several in the book) about a guy back in the 40's or 50's that shot one and put it in a chest freezer with water and froze it. He traveled around and made money from showing it. There was a detailed report of this by I beleive it was a university professor or researcher. He reported that it was real, due to the plasma rising from the eye sockets and the chest wound and he could see the skin under the hair. It was frozen with good clear spots and poor milky/ frosty areas. So the whole thing could not be inspected properly. You'd think it would be taken by government but it was'nt and It was never followed up on as the years passed.
[edit on 15-7-2008 by Swingarm]
[edit on 15-7-2008 by Swingarm]
[edit on 15-7-2008 by Swingarm]
I agree with you. I read Everything you know is Wrong by Lloyd Pye. He proposes that bigfoots etc are hominoids. Then later in the book he starts taking the same view as Sitchin about the current human race with hominoids providing some of the genes.An interesting point he makes is our strenghth reduction compared to apes etc. Our dna too is 22 compared to there 24 (is that right, going from memory)
As far as never finding remains he says the acidic forrest floor will decompose the bones.He also points out any hi level preditor bones are seldom found. As for never seeing one it's like Whiteraven said only in the book he used an example of a certain kind panda,can't remember the breed. Theres alot of territory out there.About 70 % of the surface of the the globes land is unsurveyed. Out of the 30 % that has been surveyed on foot onlt about 20% of that area can be called well surveyed.The unsurveyed 70% is more or less uncharted territory.There is a 33% of the land on the earth that is unihabitable.Leaves alot of land out there. It's a book worth reading anyway.
There is also a story (one of several in the book) about a guy back in the 40's or 50's that shot one and put it in a chest freezer with water and froze it. He traveled around and made money from showing it. There was a detailed report of this by I beleive it was a university professor or researcher. He reported that it was real, due to the plasma rising from the eye sockets and the chest wound and he could see the skin under the hair. It was frozen with good clear spots and poor milky/ frosty areas. So the whole thing could not be inspected properly. You'd think it would be taken by government but it was'nt and It was never followed up on as the years passed.
[edit on 15-7-2008 by Swingarm]
[edit on 15-7-2008 by Swingarm]
[edit on 15-7-2008 by Swingarm]
Well you can say that bigfoot doesnt really exist but wat about all the other animals humans keep on finding is it posssible they are smarter than any
other animal and realise that we are dangerous?
How many of you here debating the origins of Bigfoot have actually seen one? Been close enough to see the lines on it's face?
I've been face-to-face with a Yowie, the Australian equivalent of Bigfoot / Yeti / Abominable Snowman. I believe, after what I saw and smelt, that they are an intelligent primate not that dissimilar from ourselves. They are very knowing and although seem to be very animalistic, have an air of intelligence about the way they act.
They may be 'the missing link', a being that evolved alongside humans but was beaten to the mark by the homo-sapien and eventually pushed further and further from development that they now live in obscurity, rarely making contact with the human race.
They've had thousands of years to master avoiding detection, knowing that their only chance at survival is avoiding run-ins with us.
I've been face-to-face with a Yowie, the Australian equivalent of Bigfoot / Yeti / Abominable Snowman. I believe, after what I saw and smelt, that they are an intelligent primate not that dissimilar from ourselves. They are very knowing and although seem to be very animalistic, have an air of intelligence about the way they act.
They may be 'the missing link', a being that evolved alongside humans but was beaten to the mark by the homo-sapien and eventually pushed further and further from development that they now live in obscurity, rarely making contact with the human race.
They've had thousands of years to master avoiding detection, knowing that their only chance at survival is avoiding run-ins with us.
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