I think CERN is lying.

What they are creating at CERN happens everyday but at a larger scale right above our heads and always has done since the sun has been there. It has so far been impossible for anyone to get anything move at the speed of sound, at CERN they will be able to get particles to move at around 99.9% of the speed of sound, that may sound like alot but it is almost impossible (on the scale of things) to get that extra .1%. when particles enter our atmosphere at the spped of light hit particles leaving our atmosphere at the speed of light wierd things happen, like the creation of very small black holes. What they are doing at CERN is trying to actualy observe this happening but on a lesser scale (due not being able to get the particles to collide at the speed of light).

Also people believe that the day this machine is turned on that this will be the day that atoms will be colliding at super speed, But this is not true, it will be gradual and may take months/years untill the LHC works at full capacity. Please stop listening to the scare mongerers do a little research (visit cerns website for a start) to find out what actually happens around us and I am sure when you relise that it is already happening above it that your mind may be put to rest.


[edit on 14-7-2008 by theukman]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
What happens if their black-hole creating machine breaks while they create a black-hole, and, like, then the black-hole is there, but they can't turn off the machine. Won't the black-hole grow and then suck up the Earth? They are probably lying about the capabilities of the machine just to scare us.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Frankidealist35]

You have a couple things mixed up, im not sure you understand what a black hole is, its one of the most solid possible objects, if one were created on earth, it would be very small, and it wouldn't do much.

Most likely within a short time, it would deteriorate into a string-theory type partical.

reply to post by king Pop!p


Geezz man, get ur pop-references straight!
You shouldn't quote Einstein for this kind of stuff!

Originally posted by Cyberbian
So what you are saying is the the entire Physics community agrees on a single "Theory". There is no debate, no alternative theorys which might turn out to be right after all.

You are right, we are wrong and paranoid, so just shutup while we press the big red button and see what happens!

Nothing unexpected will happen.
Nothing unexpected ever happens when you smash atoms to finer and finer particles at higher and higher velocities?

They do these expensive experiments because they know what will happen? And there is no cause for concern.

And you believe that, that is so cute, absolute prostration to figures of authority!

dude... your a tool tbh, your not listening. When you were little, how did you find out how something worked? You smash it up and see what its made of.

So, apply that to our limited knowledge of particles, untill we know enough to carefully dismember atoms, were stuck smashing them together to see how they work.

Of coruse they know what will happen, you know what happens when you toss a tv out a window, but its the only way to take the particles appart that we know of today.

Originally posted by theukman
What they are creating at CERN happens everyday but at a larger scale right above our heads and always has done since the sun has been there. It has so far been impossible for anyone to get anything move at the speed of sound, at CERN they will be able to get particles to move at around 99.9% of the speed of sound, that may sound like alot but it is almost impossible (on the scale of things) to get that extra .1%. when particles enter our atmosphere at the spped of light hit particles leaving our atmosphere at the speed of light wierd things happen, like the creation of very small black holes. What they are doing at CERN is trying to actualy observe this happening but on a lesser scale (due not being able to get the particles to collide at the speed of light).

Also people believe that the day this machine is turned on that this will be the day that atoms will be colliding at super speed, But this is not true, it will be gradual and may take months/years untill the LHC works at full capacity. Please stop listening to the scare mongerers do a little research (visit cerns website for a start) to find out what actually happens around us and I am sure when you relise that it is already happening above it that your mind may be put to rest.


[edit on 14-7-2008 by theukman]

i hope you mean the speed of light, not sound, because the speed of sound is pretty easy to break, but the speed of light cannot be broken.

Originally posted by king Pop!p
WHAT IF ITS A TIME MACHINE??

Didn't Albert Einstein suggest that if one could go threw the "Event Horizon" you can possibly time travel? I THINK SO!

It may be possible to suck up the whole earth. If a big one could suck up light, imagine this one?Where doomed

They can all suck up photons.. thats kinda the point of them not being able to prove them, cuz we can't see them.

I will say one thing, that there are lots of whistleblowers about the colliders at Brookhaven that they were able to turn into a weapon to shoot down craft in space on anywhere in the sky. I think this new collider may be just a weapon upgrade for some reason. If you look at their logo you will also see 3 big 6's and also a collider gate shape with another one behind it as if interconnected. A sign of opening one end dimensionally and connecting it to another. Seems that the scientists and government are being mislead by higher intelligences to create more tim rips. We all know what happened in the philadelphia experiments/wormholes.

reply to post by Osiris1953


Did you really need to like respond in that manner? Like if you dont agree, so be it.. but like thats just askin for an argument to like.. start up.

Originally posted by KrisFromGenk
Didn't it come to mind that there might not even exist such a thing as a black-hole. In that case, the experiment, well, simply put, wil not create a black-hole

Don't forget that black holes are still not proven and all the evidence we get to see about black holes are nothing more than theories on theories on theories.

This is what Lawrence Krauss says about them:

Krauss's answer: Hawking's riddle is a trick question. Due to the relative nature of time under Einstein's general theory, time should stop at the event horizon. Anything that approaches, therefore, should come to a halt before it falls into the black hole, effectively preventing the black hole from forming in the first place.

blog.wired.com...

But you'll find a lot more when you start exploring the elegant dark matter/energy and singularity free world

of plasma cosmology.

You might wanna check out holoscience.com. They have a lot of good artikles, written from a plasmacosmology viewpoint. Here is one on black holes:
The madness of black holes

Anyway, this is another imo interesting view on the matter. Enjoy.

My understanding of this is that anybody observing something falling towards the event horizon will notice the object slow, and then stop. However, the object itself notices no difference whatsoever. That's what relativity is all about. I see you as having been frozen in time, you see you as moving along normally. We're both right, but with this example, you're more right than I am.

As for the people here who are all like "IT'S JUST A THEORY THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN LOLZ!!!1!111!", everything that operates on a scientific principle is a theory. even the "laws" of physics are theories yet to be disproven. We have to keep trying to verify or disprove our most advanced theories, or our science will never advance, and we will never be able to get off this godd@mn3d rock.

So I for one say fire those particles at one another.

reply to post by Question Fate


Does it really matter? The OP didn't pick up on the point of my post anyhow. I was a bit harsh, I agree. In the end though, I'm tired of people starting threads and expecting others to do all of the footwork instead of just looking it up and reading. It's lazy to expect others to do all of the research for you. I'm just sick of junk threads from people that would actually have something to offer to the board if they actually took the time to read about something that interests or concerns them. ATS is filled with these types of threads these days. It is just extremely irritating.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by Osiris1953]

To the OP,

I will explain to you why if CERN creates a micro black hole it won't suck in everything around it. I will use normal language so that it is easy to follow along.

1) the black hole would be generated (or is already contained inside of the nucleus of the atom. It is Infinitely small.

2) There isn't much inside the LHC to go inside the mico black hole, other than the ridiculously small amount of particles that were just recently exploded.

3) the relative distance between each particle in the LHC and the micro black hole would be about the same as from the earth to Alpha Centari.

4) any thing that you think would get sucked into the black hole is much to big to go into the black hole should the rare chance chance that something come within reach of it.

5) as a good mental image go and fill up your bathroom sink. No go outside and find the biggest rock you can possibly carry and take it into your bathroom. Now start draining your sink and swirl the water so that it makes a nice little whirlpool as it is draining. Now take the giant rock and drop it into the sink. Did it get sucked in? No, because it's to massive to get sucked in. And pretty much everything in the LHC is going to be much larger than the black hole they would create.

That is why the experiment is safe (in theory)

Originally posted by JTankers


Professor Otto Rössler has stated that micro black holes created in the LHC would grow exponentially, accreting the Earth in 50 months to 50 years, and he has sought scientific debate on his research[23] before the LHC particle collisions begin.[24]

50 months? My math may be a little rusty but that,s just a shade over 4 years from the start of the device. So that brings us to late 2012. I don't generally buy into the whole 2012 issue, but that right there scares the pants off of me just thinking about it.

reply to post by Osiris1953


Harsh? I dont' think you were harsh i think you were being fair and trying to encourage someone to think for themselves and do some research. Look the possibility of creating a black hole that could cause problems is infinitesimal. I live on this earth like everyone else but i can tell you this, i am absolutely bouncing up and down on my seat when i think what CERN could do for us. If it were a high risk, say 70/30 in favour of no dangerous black holes, i'd still want to take that risk.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I would like him to research and learn on his own.

I also agree with you that CERN is making history, and it could potentially tell us so much about our universal beginnings. Which could in turn finally lead to flawless unified theory on how the universe works. I don't know if I could live with the 70/30 risk, and some of the possible side effects do worry me, but I'm looking forward to any info that might be gleaned from the project.

Originally posted by Osiris1953

I would like him to research and learn on his own.

To get on the Internet, for some, is the best one can do with a computer. To try to research for better understanding of how a computer works, to some, is befuggling at best. Likewise, with physics, to "reasearch" what this contraption does is baffling. I have a basic high school understanding of science, and to read about what it does stumbles me greatly.

In the OP's defense ........ his entire opening post was of questions. He IS researching, but instead of helping out someone with a lesser knowledge than yours, all you are doing is telling him to go read the big words at the site - and remain baffled.

Originally posted by absentewasn't there a similar project in the USA? I remember watching a documentary about it, i think on Discovery.

There was. Infact they were going to build this particle acceleration but got turned down for funding

No offense but, this is absurd, the absolutely minute "black holes" created vaporize in billionths of a second. Learn to quantum physics.

There is no real turning off and on the machine they just collide two particles together and whatever happens happens. If it created a black hole it would be there for about a nano nano nano second, way to short for it to have any impact. But you never know...

reply to post by Misfit


There are many people who are very computer illiterate. This I understand, but considering he made it to ATS and signed up means he is at the very least capable of doing a google search. As far as it being complex, of course everything having to do with the project is complex, but there are many sites and articles out there that have plenty of easy to understand information about the project, all it takes is some effort. If the internet is not an option there is always the library. I don't know if there are books on the subject yet, but there are magazines and of course there are many books on black holes or parts of the CERN project that are of concern to OP. Also anything in relation to physics written by John Gribbon is easy to understand by most anyone.

Yes this is a very complicated subject, and if he had attempted to do more legwork on his own, I wouldn't be quite as compelled to call him out on his lack of knowledge. We're not all well read and educated on every subject, but attempting to learn more on your own is important.

It is also important to do your own research to create quality threads and illicit real conversation from fellow members.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by Osiris1953]

Originally posted by absente
wasn't there a similar project in the USA? I remember watching a documentary about it, i think on Discovery.

We have a bunch of particle accelerators here in the USA. One's close to me, the most powerful in the country - the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven Laboratory. It has strong ties with my university (the University of Stony Brook).

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Let's use billions and billions of tax dollars, without the permission of the citizens who pay for the effin thing, on a project that might just be totally useless and do nothing except maybe discover an even smaller particle than the smallest particle, which hey after that they can build a bigger useless loop in the ground to find even smaller particles, and so on into infinity,, while we have homeless dying of starvation on the streets, thousands of TAXPAYERS losing their homes, the economy crashing, not to mentions the trillions wasted on these bloody Wars that do nothing but piss people off and create more wars.

Finding particles. Like how we found the electron, right? No use there, nope! We never had any practical use for the electron, or electricity!

Wait... Could it be that your silly, anti-scientific rant stems from idiocy and ignorance? YOU DECIDE!

Originally posted by theukman
What they are creating at CERN happens everyday but at a larger scale right above our heads and always has done since the sun has been there. It has so far been impossible for anyone to get anything move at the speed of sound, at CERN they will be able to get particles to move at around 99.9% of the speed of sound, that may sound like alot but it is almost impossible (on the scale of things) to get that extra .1%. when particles enter our atmosphere at the spped of light hit particles leaving our atmosphere at the speed of light wierd things happen, like the creation of very small black holes. What they are doing at CERN is trying to actualy observe this happening but on a lesser scale (due not being able to get the particles to collide at the speed of light).

This.

And.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
1) the black hole would be generated (or is already contained inside of the nucleus of the atom. It is Infinitely small.

2) There isn't much inside the LHC to go inside the mico black hole, other than the ridiculously small amount of particles that were just recently exploded.

3) the relative distance between each particle in the LHC and the micro black hole would be about the same as from the earth to Alpha Centari.

4) any thing that you think would get sucked into the black hole is much to big to go into the black hole should the rare chance chance that something come within reach of it.

5) as a good mental image go and fill up your bathroom sink. No go outside and find the biggest rock you can possibly carry and take it into your bathroom. Now start draining your sink and swirl the water so that it makes a nice little whirlpool as it is draining. Now take the giant rock and drop it into the sink. Did it get sucked in? No, because it's to massive to get sucked in. And pretty much everything in the LHC is going to be much larger than the black hole they would create.

That is why the experiment is safe (in theory)

This.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by Johnmike]