2012 Debunked

I knew it wouldn't be long before I saw this thread heading down into ATS oblivion.

People as a general rule find the truth boring irritating and unrealistic.

I personally believe that a Majority of the people are desperate for some thing to happen. Were board. if nothing happens the boredom will linger and every day when we get in our little 4 wheeled boxes and drive to a bigger box to make more boxes or pieces of different boxes it will be all there is. Like the movie says we are not designed to sit in little cubicles and watch computer screens all day. or do repetition until we retire then were to old and in bad shape to do any thing at all.

The thought of the tedium lasting is slowly driving people crazy. So when they don't believe you don't hold it against them there just board.

Forgive them for they know not what they do, or in this case what they are asking for.

Well my opinion any way. Thanks for the OP, it at least for me cleared up a nagging question. Have a star and a flag on me.

Originally posted by DocEmrick
2012 isn't a CGI rendering that some computer nerd, eating hot pockets, drinking energy drinks on a Friday Night just randomly conceived due to his lack of social skills, and boredom with World of Warcraft.

Whats so wrong with that?

How about this…

Go out of your way and actually do what I did and find out for yourself- go to Mexico and ask. I have photos of my trip but my camera stoped working due to the humidity in Mexico which for some reason stuffs up the camera. I’m going to get it fixed and hopefully show you guys the proof.

Anyway, the travel guide also told me that there are some who claim to be descended from Mayans but I didn’t get a chance to follow him up on that. Look, I was there, I was in front of the pyramids, I can tell you first hand that the guide wouldn’t tell me about something if he didn’t truly know what he was talking about.

Originally posted by andre18

2012 debunked

Put 10 tons of proof in front of people. If they’re not ready to accept an idea, they will not accept the proof. No amount of evidence will suffice to prove anything, it is the jury that will decide…

"For those that believe, no proof is necessary, for those that don't, none will suffice."

Not to mention the "Mayan" calender had its origins in a civilization of greater antiquity, and that they did not know of other civilizations prior to and during the creation of the calender is not fact.

And a travel guide told you this?

And this being the end of an era and the start of another is not something that is exclusive to Mayan lore or the interpretation of the calender.

Originally posted by andre18
. I have photos of my trip but my camera stoped working due to the humidity in Mexico which for some reason stuffs up the camera. I’m going to get it fixed and hopefully show you guys the proof.

Proof of what andre? That you went to Mexico and talked to one of the locals asking in a skeptical tone whats this silly crap about 2012 and the guy noticing your tone and position on it, just kind of swept it under the rug thereby establishing credibility and affinity with you merely because it agrees with your skepticism. How could he be wrong? I mean he thinks like you do and you seem very fond of your opinion and wll jump on the first opinion that was willing to spoon some chili up your butt.

Did you ask any other travel guys? Or was that too much a risk having got the opinion you wanted with this guy, why muddy up a perfectly like minded opinion.

You GOING there doesn't make it any more credible

I can tell you first hand that the guide wouldn’t tell me about something if he didn’t truly know what he was talking about.

That's assuming he DOES know what he is talking about. You just say he does but who are you to know? After all, If you knew anything about 2012, you wouldn't be asking him in the first place, so, again andre,, you got Johnson. Do you think their is any possibility that their is another travel guide there that might have more to say contrary to your guide and more in line with what you read here? Ill bet their is and it STILL wouldn't mean a whole helluva a lot.

Why don't we send Andre to Iran and he can ask a travel guide if they are enriching uranium there. If the guide says no,,

We're KoO with that.

- Con

reply to post by Conspiriology


That is the most arrogant irritating and moranick post I have ever had the sorry pleasure of reading.

Did it ever occur to you that it just might be true. Why do you find it so hard to believe that it is the end of there era and not the end of the world.

Tell me know it all why does it make sense that a people who lived that long ago would know exactly when the world was gonna end. Oh let me guess aliens told them right. Oh no silly me wasn't aliens it was a shape shifting reptilian white house reporter. Nope not them either. then the same people who said WMD time traveled and told them. ya I think that must be it.

All that sounds just as stupid as what you said to him. Why on earth would you be blatantly arrogant. There are easier ways to get your point across then being mean.

Did you ever think that just maybe the people who are around it every day and submersed in whats left of the culture might just have a little insight into the true meaning. Why are people so quick to believe in the end? This is a very logical explanation and the only one that truly makes sense, fight it in your mind if you must but let others have hope. In closing I would like to say shame on you.

reply to post by Conspiriology


That proof, is just a bunch of photos of the pyramids and the surrounding area. I’m being doubted that I was even there so just to prove I was there and that I’m not just making this up.

Actually I have another way to prove I was there for those who doubt I was. My sister entered a competition on Sol Beer to go to Mexico and she won - www.solbeer.com.au...

That’s why I went – family trip.

Andre18 is correct.
Its like if some alien landed on earth and said, OMG!WTF!!BBQN1N1N1 thier world ends in 5.5 Months, just look see on this calendar - DECEMBER!
They must blow themslves up in 5.5 months....

Never even considering that the calendar repeats...

The movement of the solar system is almost exactly in line with the Mayan 3600 odd year calendar.

The reason its not mainstream knowledge is the nasa boys are nowhere near as accurate as people living in mud huts with grass skirts...

reply to post by andre18

Nothing will happen in 2012, no aliens, no ascension, no higher level of consciousness... it is just an era that will end in 4 years time...

I am not sure you debunked anything here. What did you learn, that 2012 is not the end of the world?

No news here.

I can’t believe that people are willing to accept 1) aliens, 2) ascension, 3) higher conciseness etc, but when someone finally goes to the actually place and asks, the other three theories are more plausible...what?

That one is really great, and so true, because everyone is so centered on their own reality that can't just face the simple truth, that nothing is going to happen, no one is going to come and solve all the problems without effort from all of us, nobody is going to come and free us from having to make choices, having to fight for a better life and having to live and then die.

I've been there too, i went to the pyramids, asking questions to our guide, who by the way was very old and showed a great deal of knowledge about the history and even the philosophy, thoughts and way of life of the Aztecs, lots of that info i haven't seen on the net or even books, and yes, he is a native, you can clearly see, very well educated and patient, he really knows his stuff, so who i am supposed to believe more, direct knowledge transmitted from ancestors, or current interpretation of symbols made by someone not related in anyway to the people who actually created those symbols/structures/artifacts etc?

If in fact there is going to be something happening, it will be if and when people get to that level of awakening by researching, evolving and growing up to it, but i think it has nothing to do with calendars and peoples laziness to do it by themselves, always waiting and hoping for something to happen that makes it easy to "ascend".

Sorry if i sound rude, is not my purpose to do it, is just how i say things, i think this topic has been going on for a long time and it is time to get over it and keep walking the path.

Kai

reply to post by 12.21.12


What I’ve debunked is just the conspiracy theories surrounding it, it’s more to do with stoping the whole end of the world thing from going around….I mean you’ve got to stop and think for a second - why have the people at the Camelot Project gone to all these strangle people to get info about 2012 instead of simply going to Mexico and finding out what it really means?????

reply to post by andre18


The media and Organized Religion responsible for making people think the world is going to end. I say let them. It betters my chances for survival.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by 12.21.12]

I wish to share some information. I haven't read all the posts because as is common in ATS (and sure you may mock my 'inability' to be self-critical about my own observation, if you see it fit) there is a lot of people who aren't really very educated, critical, objective and self-truthful as well as transparent about themselves.


Back to the topic of the thread...


The reason you got the information you did in the context that you did is cause it was pointless for you to get any kind of understanding from the guide who you say is a natural-born expert on the subject just because he is born in Mexico. This is very, very absurd and displays a high-grade of ignorance about the reality of things in general. The Mayan is not one that is thriving nowadays and is not one that has maintained itself with enough foundations as to make any Mexican knowledgeable about the real works and understandings of the Mayans.

I'm wondering if you questioned your guide how the Mayans were capable of possessing the advanced knowledge about the Milky Way Galaxy that they did...

Your ego-proclaimed explanation of the workings of the Mayan age-belief system is quite vague and absolutely incomplete. Of course the Mayans were referring to an age, but obviously you haven't looked into their comprehension of ages in relation to the events of the past and neither have you researched about the synchronicity and co-relation they're own 'end-of-age' calendar has with that of MANY culture world-wide, which I'll leave for you to research about...

No, I'm not biased about the events that will take place in the upcoming years or specifically 2012. The truth is that science forms a large part of today's analysis regarding the potential events to take place, and so far there is no evidence for "impending death" as some decide to so call it, in a blatantly ignorant and one-sided-research way...

It is a FACT, scientifically proven, that the Earth is coming to it's closest pass to the center of the galaxy and there will be an alignment with the center of the girth of the galaxy's center, the Sun and our planet.

I would like to comment again on your ignoramus-type perspective regarding the nature of knowledge of a person who is born in Mexico. I have MANY friends who are born and raised in Mexico. They know nothing. I have gone to Mexico and I have researched about the current state of affairs within the cultural strings in the contemporary Mayan culture. They have nothing. Most of the knowledge was done away with by Christian ministers when the conquest took place, leaving the most minimal amount of scrolls of Mayan culture left-over.

If you think a modern Mayan knows as much about the galaxy as the ones who worked their whole society based on a very advanced, day-to-day astrological model of existence... you are indeed an Ignoramus...

I was born in Chile, yet I don't know HOW or why the people from Eastern Islands did what they did with the enormous, monolithic structures known as Moai. Indeed, it is a mystery to present-day Pascuenses (from Eastern Island or Isla de Pascua) and it will remain so probably for a while until the mystery of all monolithic structures is solved.

Same goes for people born in Egypt who do not know, as the whole world (civilian and not insiders) doesn't, what the real nature of the pyramids is...

Please, don't be a fanatic of opinion-expression specially as certified knowledge unless you have a thick base of research. No, going to a place and asking a regional local what the real value of something of their land is is not complete research nor by any means certifiably accurate or objective.

Research, think, re-think, share, listen, research and re-think for as long as the question stands...


Peace and Love.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by sllapur]

Wishful thinking of the trapped and doomed. It has long since been pointless trying to inform this nation of dumbed down lost souls but, I can not help feeling sorry for the innocent who will suffer right along with the corrupted, the self important, the urbaite and city dwellers who can not see what is going on all around them. Me and mine rven now harden our hearts, knowing the the death and destruction that is coming, must come and many of you must pass away for the fresh strat and new era to begin. If you are meant to "Cut It", you will and are not only watching the Myan Calendar; the signs are everywhere. The dollar will crash; the government will off an escape to convert you dollars to the Amero and you will be chipped but this will fail because Mother Nature has only just befun and all our enemies pray to God for our blood...they can have yours and we will sit quietly while you tear each other apart..it is your well derserved karma.

reply to post by sllapur


What I mean is that compared to a British archaeologist a Mexican archaeologist would be far more knowledgeable about the culture of their own country. Sure I’m Australian and I know barely anything about the aboriginal culture but I’m not comparing what the average person knows – I’m comparing professionals ………

andre18, you could be right, who am I to say? However, if all there was to 2012 was one calendar, then there wouldn't be such a following today. It isn't exclusive just to the Mayas. There are several prophecies about 2012 from across the globe.
Also, something I find interesting is the date. The 21st day of the 12th month of the 12th year of the 21st century. The thing I find interesting about this is that the calendar as we know it didn't exist when the Mayas calendar was made. It could be coincidence of course, but then again it might not be.

Originally posted by angryamerican
That is the most arrogant irritating and moranick post I have ever had the sorry pleasure of reading.

Really? Tell us then smart guy,, what part of my post is not true? I ask this because it is obvious YOU didn't comprehend much of it yet have the unmitigated audacity to call me arrogant? I don't accept compliments coming from fools, much less criticism.

moranick=?

Now THAT, was moronic

Did it ever occur to you that it just might be true. Why do you find it so hard to believe that it is the end of there era and not the end of the world.

READ MY POST! I never mentoned what I believed, only that andre wasn't using the most scientific method to make the claim 2012 is debunked. It was his method I take issue with and offered no opinion where I stand personally on the matter. So before you go off sounding like some terminally self righteous religious cleric pontificating your vitriolic vernacular and monosyllabic diatribe,, THINK FIRST!

NEXT TIME,, Don't be so damn presumptuous.

Tell me know it all why does it make sense that a people who lived that long ago would know exactly when the world was gonna end. Oh let me guess aliens told them right. Oh no silly me wasn't aliens it was a shape shifting reptilian white house reporter. Nope not them either. then the same people who said WMD time traveled and told them. ya I think that must be it.

Not my area of expertise moreover I couldn't care less about all that crap. Again All I am saying is telling us something is debunked because Andre alleged epiphany given him by a tour guide means JACK SQUAT, regardless of whether one believes in reptilians or any other factoid of fictional fundamentalist folklore, fable or factual.

All that sounds just as stupid as what you said to him. Why on earth would you be blatantly arrogant. There are easier ways to get your point across then being mean.

Did I call him any names? Did I insult him personally or did I insult his methods using an analogy YOU seem to be more upset over than HE is when you have no Idea what the hell you are talking about.

1) You completely misinterpreted my post.

2) You assume I subscribe to a particular side of the 2012 clique when I have never said what I believe and don't frequent those discussions much.

3) Your self concept being one molecule away of being an eggshell, take vicariously and personally something you think is mean when YOU are the best example of what an arrogant and ignorant post looks like especially after you find you are not anywhere near an accurate interpretation of my post. It must be like shoving an entire shoe store in your mouth .

Rather than practice what you preach extending to me a measure of respect a modicum of civility, ,, WHAT DO YOU DO!! You begin choking on the dust of your own hypocrisy talking like belligerent child.

Did you ever think that just maybe the people who are around it every day and submersed in what's left of the culture might just have a little insight into the true meaning. Why are people so quick to believe in the end? This is a very logical explanation and the only one that truly makes sense, fight it in your mind if you must but let others have hope.

(shaking head like a cartoon!!) Huh~! man get a damn clue,, READ MY POST! I never said what I believe JUST that André has done nothing to think he debunked 2012 more than that however is the very idea he has that HE was the only one who has ever thought of asking someone that lives there! OMG WHAT A NOVEL IDEA!!! Why hasn't anyone else thought of that!!! I guess we are just not as "edumacated" as you two are.

The fact is IT HAS BEEN asked and much better protocols for the inductive arguments of logical fallacy employed.

In closing I would like to say shame on you.

No,, shame on YOU

and you, owe me,,

an apology


- Con









[edit on 14-7-2008 by Conspiriology]

yea, unless this guide is a mayan and was part of the group that made the calander and did all the astrology work along side of the mayans than i dont accept what he says just cuz he leads tours... ask your congressman about bohemian grove, do u expect the truth about it? no you dont.. the could be a number of reasons he said what he said but the end of there era, idk dont sound to good to me.. nice try though and your view has been noted

reply to post by PApro


check this...

The Mesoamerican Long Count calendar forms the basis for a New Age belief, first forecast by José Argüelles, that a cataclysm will take place on or about 21 December 2012, a forecast that mainstream Mayanist scholars consider a misinterpretation.

en.wikipedia.org...