Red Cross Finds Bush Administration Guilty of War Crimes

reply to post by kosmicjack

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I will only add that now almost anyone can be defined as a terrorist, what with the vague definition set forth in the Radicalization Bill, the Patriot Act, FISA, etc.

Just ask any of the one million people on the terror watch list. Public Servants, little old ladies, kids...

So yes, we should definitely clarify this torture issue once and for all...before it's my turn.

What a load of pure unaduterated hysterical crap!

Please show us this "terror watch list" that contains old ladies and kids.

You're using the tactics of fear rhetoric without an ounce of proof.

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by Maxmars

 

Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

You guys finished debating some time ago, so I don;t know when or if you'll see this. But something you said really stuck with me.

Your opponent said: "You have no rights if you are determined to be a terrorist."

You responded: "Not true, only non U.S. citizens have no rights. Big difference."

I will avoid the pedantic I hope by stating that you mean in the context of the US government does not have to extend citizen's rights to non-citizens.

It made me wonder, Is it, or should it be our position, (America) that non-citizens have 'no' rights whatsoever? If those rights differ substantially from our own, does that extend to what we call "due process"?

Shall we openly decline human rights as we ourselves defined them? It seems contradictory to the political and diplomatic stance we have taken since World War One.

You bring up an interesting point. There are rights which extend to all men, such as due process, and there are rights reserved to citizens, such as voting.

What would be really useful would be a list of which rights are extended to whom.

Yes!!! Whom?

I would like to see more addendum added to section 802 - better definitions -itemization Then I would shut up and be on my merry way!

don't be fooled people,allowing our government to be tried anywhere but here in their own country is insane,imo they should step down quickly and quietly or else be put on trial right here in their own country by their own people which is exactly as the law states.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by ZEFSA18]

The 12 Basic (UN) Human Rights

No-one shall be deprived of his life intentionally, except following his conviction of a crime for which the penalty of death is provided by law.

No-one shall be subjected to torture, or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

No-one shall be held in slavery or servitude, or required to perform forced or compulsory labour.

No-one shall be deprived of his liberty, except under the specified legal provisions.

In determination of his civil rights and obligations, or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing, within a reasonable time, by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law.

No-one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence for an action which was not a criminal offence at the time it was committed.

Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home, and his correspondence.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. This right includes freedom to change his religion.

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority, and regardless of frontiers.

Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family.

The enjoyment of these rights and freedoms shall be secured without discrimination on any grounds, such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, or any other.

amost all of you think that this is wrong? i dont understand that..... war is war ther are NO RULES in war. you do what you must to survive. if you must beat some one for information that is needed to win the war then well its a necessary tool. if the comfort of a few people were important then we would not have soldiers over there in the first place. ARE MEN AND WOMEN HAVE DIED FOR THIS WAR. if we interogate a few people we might be a few steps closer to oh i dont know WINNING AND GETTING ARE SONS AND DAUGHTERS HOME!!!!!
you all act like you want this war to go on. if so i understand why are econemys going to hell all of america have turned into spinless idiots who want all of are people to die. you dont respect the 6000 people have died. if you dont like that some people have taken charge and tried to take steps to end this war then well you have problems!

reply to post by Darkaner


Hmm, I seem to remember the days when the US bitched about its troops and airmen being tortured by the NVA and Vietcong ..... you cant have it both ways. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword or what goes around comes around.

What is sad are people that would vote for whomever or whatever ran in their party.
This country has been lied to and brainwashed into believing what they are told on their favorite news channel.
Everybody can see what this government is doing.
We are losing our rights for protection.
Ha! Like New Orleans where they went in not with food and water but to take the guns! Fools, wake up.
There is only ONE party and you are not a part of it! You are not invited. You will be taxed more and get less.
You will lose yourself by getting stroked nightly by government paid news casts.
One day this government will have created ALL the laws necessary to arrest everybody and anybody without cause and do their will with them. Wait, Damn they have already done that.
Let me ask all that read this..
Do you know a wealthy person?
Do they run around in your circle?
Do you think they have the same concerns as you?
Do they envy you or pitty you?
Bush said in a comment that the Constitution is just a GD piece of paper! Does that not anger anyone?
If you believe in justice for yourself and want to be treated fairly then we, as a country, need to impeach the whole bunch and put them on trial.
Sad to say we are a country of wimps that only care about ourselves.
We will go to the prison camps and give up everything to be safe.
Safe from what?
The real terrorists are the ones that take away your freedoms and so far it has been friendly fire damage.
Do we have a Dept. of Offence?
If it were known that there were terrorists in an american city, let's say 10 terrorists, would that be a good enough reason to strike it with shock and awe?
The innocent don't matter?
Seems like we are at war with humanity.

Originally posted by Wotan
Hmm, I seem to remember the days when the US bitched about its troops and airmen being tortured by the NVA and Vietcong ..... you cant have it both ways. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword or what goes around comes around.

Yeah, I remember those days, too. I also remembered that no one believed the US when we said the "peace loving people of Vietnam" were torturing US POWs. And I don't remember the world being up in arms over it, either.