Islam will win

Amen, the real awnser is make more babies...

If theres one thing that pisses me off about the whole west is the treating our best resource children as a waste... we are getting over run but really by our own hand...

It's kind of true, when a family has 10 children and theres another culture to... absorb you can spare a daughter or two for inigration and not only not care but often enjoy..she has 5 brothers to see he doesn't impinge to deeply his culture in a negative way...

when you have 2 kids, one kid marrying out is a major issue... it's your cultures death, so you need to fear oother cultures.. babies are the awnser

[edit on 11-7-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Iv been a reader of this website for a while,
and nothing has offended me ever before until this topic.

I am a 20 year old muslim living in london.
Islam is NOT against Jews or Christians,
In fact if a lot of the Qu'ran agrees on facts and stories told by both religions and it tells us to learn from each religion to have a better understanding of one self.

If you looked into the subject,
Its only a certain portion of muslims that misinterperate the holy book,
'extremists' i think they are referred to as.

Its not the whole islamic population that thinks that way,
its just the 'extremists' seem to have grown more in number then
what i would call a proper religion.

what the hell do all u guys have against islam?

I know many Muslims in the UK...pretty liberal cool bunch if i do say so myself...not *them* in particular they still follow islamic teachings...but they really could care less if someone of a different faith or no faith at all drink,smoke,have social sex...etc etc they really dont care,so as for this being islam will win...id rather islamic extremist's will win...because most muslims in the uk i know dont really care if its not affecting them personally...

reply to post by mopusvindictus

Everyone in here screams WW3, no, not this time, Iran would go down in a day, IF they choose to try and play hardball. In a few weeks or a month if you stay totally conventional.. If Russia or China or both take sides, we can open a hole in the ionsphere and make fried chicken out of all 1.5 Billion of them over about 20 minutes... hardly a single nuke will get to the atmosphere because they will fry in the radiation, the ones that are shielded the few Russian missiles will be facing missile defense systems of a more conventional nature the whole way over, Aircraft with lazers, aircraft with inteceptors, ground and ship based missiles, ground lazers and more...

lol, your HAARP is believed to be a copy(ripoff) of soviet Sura station , accoridng to russian conspiracy theorists, based on stolen soviet tech

Sura was specialized ionosphere plasma control installation i.e. plasma and weather control weapon , a part of soviet Glonak global Weather control system

The Sura facility was commissioned in 1981. Using this facility, Russian researchers achieved extremely interesting results regarding the ionosphere behavior and discovered the effect of generation of low-frequency emission at the modulation of ionosphere current[1]. At the beginning, Soviet Defense Department mostly footed the bill. The American HAARP ionospheric heater is similar to the Sura facility. The HAARP project began in 1993.
en.wikipedia.org...

lol ,sura existed 12 years before HAARP ...

as for your lasers they have been rendered useless by Russian TopolM ICBM

and soviets had created military grade lasers ,long before USA did lol...

lol, Soviets used laser weapons against China in 1969

former East German physicist who studied Soviet infrared technology and plasmoids during the 60s and 70s, and who was directly involved in a demonstration of a Soviet laser beam weapon in 1991 for the U.S. Air Force in Weimar (DDR), told AFP that there is evidence that a directed-energy weapon using "deep infrared" radiation was used to bring down the WTC.
Although infrared weapon technology is not widely discussed in the West, the Soviet infrared beam weapon is nothing new and was already used during a Soviet dispute with China in 1969 to destroy "a wall" at the Ussuri River, which separates Manchuria from Russia's Far East, according to the physicist.
Infrared radiation is heat-producing and invisible wavelengths lying between visible light and microwave on the electromagnetic spectrum. "Near" infrared is closest to visible light and "far" or "deep" infrared is closer to microwave. Far infrared waves are thermal and cause increased molecular vibrational activity. In other words, infrared radiation is heat.
Israel's Laser Weapon
There are indications, according to the physicist, that such a weapon was used when the KAL plane was shot down over Kamchatka (Soviet Union) in September 1983. In the early 90s, this technology returned to scientific discussions in the West and the technology itself appears to have been transferred from the Soviet Union.
Since 1995, the United States and Israel have actively developed an advanced infrared beam weapon under a joint "anti-missile" program known as the Tactical High-Energy Laser (THEL). The THEL is a mobile, high-energy laser weapon.
www.serendipity.li...

lol, Soviets used laser weapons long before USA and there SS-18 Satan was designed to withstand any kind of laser attack with the exception of the soviet nuclear pumped ASAT laser

he USSR's high-energy laser program, which dates from the mid-1960s, is much larger than the US effort. They have built over a half dozen major R&D facilities and test ranges, and they have over 10,000 scientists and engineers associated with laser development. They are developing chemical lasers and have continued to work on other high-energy lasers having potential weapons applications - the gas dynamic laser and the electric discharge laser. They are also pursuing related laser weapon technologies, such as efficient electrical power sources, and are pursuing capabilities to produce high-quality optical components. They have developed a rocket-driven magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) generator which produces 15 megawatts of short-term electric power - a device that has no counterpart in the West. The scope of the USSR's military capabilities would depend on its success in developing advanced weapons, including laser weapons for ballistic missile defense.
www.fas.org...

Starting at the end of the 1960s, the Russians also developed ground-based nuclear laser systems for combating spacecraft. Unlike the American x-ray lasers, they could be used several times over. The programme was terminated after the USSR announced a unilateral moratorium on trials of the space defence system and the puzzling deaths of the two project managers in the mid-1980s. The mobile Pamir-SU electro-generator, with an output of 15MW and a mass of around 20t, could supply power to long-range lasers and ultra-high-frequency weapon systems. It could be used both on the Earth and also in space.
www.flug-revue.rotor.com...

as the above source though soviets successfully created a nuclear pumped laser for ASAT purpose , they failed to modify it for anti-ICBM purpose due to collapse of USSR and halt on nuclear laser R & D in mid-80's,thanks to stupid INF treaties and START treaties blah ,
the soviets should have used this tech to wipe USA off the map

if islam wins or loses, if any muslim or whatever dies in any related religious war or if even western or muslim culture is destroyed, does it even matter?

because humans are ever-conflicting and changing, never accepting one way or ideal for very long before demanding change or forcing change upon others. our social nature, our very human nature as social beings demands this of all of us, there is no good or bad, merely what humanity desires for itself and any notion of peace or unity is temporary at best.

humans will never be forever at peace, its in our very dna to group, sub-group and divide into social entities to feel whole, even peace and tolerance advocates (so dont think youre any different or morally superior) behave as such, no one is any exception as long as theres humanity.

reply to post by Ownification


What do you mean im not smart enough and ive been affected by the media... no ive been affected by them directly when they enrolled in my catholic highschool and made a hub bub when we say our catholic prayers, and im not islamaphobic i just agreee they complain and are annoying. My girlfriend is a muslim and i am catholic. Most muslims are cool but a lot do complain about stupid crap

It's evolution at work. Survival of the fittest. People who come from a culture that produces small numbers of offspring, late in life, are relatively unfit for this world. They will not reproduce as successfully as they could have.

Me, I'm an atheist. I will probably not have many children. I will die, and lots and lots of muslims will take my place because they will reproduce so much more successfully than I will have. I hope you Christians are happy with that. Particularly those of you who are creationists.

Originally posted by LetsTouch
reply to post by Ownification

 

What do you mean im not smart enough and ive been affected by the media... no ive been affected by them directly when they enrolled in my catholic highschool and made a hub bub when we say our catholic prayers, and im not islamaphobic i just agreee they complain and are annoying. My girlfriend is a muslim

and i am catholic. Most muslims are cool but a lot do complain about stupid crap

OK heres what I mean about you not being smart:
Everything you stated about Islam you got from the media, if you sat down and did at least alittle thinking you would realize that everyone complains, the difference is that you only focus on Islam, why? Becuase the media focuses on Islam. The fact of the matter is that you yourself is complaining about how others are complaining. Muslims are using their rights in western world and try to push in the society what they think is right, you probably do the same, you push in the society what you think is right, isn't it true??

soooo if someone with the same ideas as you complains alot, would you start proclaiming that your idea sux?? Obviousely most people in this thread are picking on Islam, kinda bullying Muslims. If Muslims do something bad they get the same treatment as everyone else according to law, that's all I got to say.

We here in the U.S will have to lay the law down on Islam,, or show them the door

reply to post by Sniper_Instructor


With respect, and as a former American (now a full-time Israeli) America's policies have helped Islam spread its 7th century philosophy all over the globe. At present, it appears that America will have a Muslim President (yes, he is a Muslim by Shariah Law no matter what he claims) and there are many other reasons to believe that Islam will dominate America.

So if you want to live a truly free life, the only place this will be possible in the future will be (paradoxically) in Israel or Amsterdam.

Have you read your Bible lately? Jesus wins in the end.

I considered starting a thread on this article I ran across today but will just post it here. Anyone who thinks the muslim women are all victims should think again.

Women at Pakistan's Red Mosque vow babies for jihad
Wed Jul 9, 2008 11:53am BST Email | Print | Share| Single Page| Recommend (4) [-] Text [+]

By Zeeshan Haider

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - About 2,000 Islamist women gathered at the radical Red Mosque in the Pakistani capital on Wednesday and vowed to raise their children for holy war, days after a suicide bomber killed 18 people after a similar rally..........

uk.reuters.com...

They are a dangerous society, although I think some of us give them more credit than they deserve. I like to believe that if they go first, the USA could take them out in no time. I don't want to see that, but Iran doesn't seem to be backing down.

Make sure that the muzzies are unwanted here, do not buy at their shops, ignore them, do not help them in any way, make sure that they know that they are unwelcome here.

You guys mis understand so much and have/ARE been/being fed so much dis information. Its astounding.

Some of you are just being so hyped up by paranoia and the bull crap media machines.

Terror .. hmmph. Army idiots invading a country with nothing but rubble in it to secure oil lines and pipe routes for money for food for oil incentives.

lol (Actually LMAO) - deploying 4k troops in afghanistan to remove taliban insurgents, planned to increase by 10s of thousands. for a few hundred rebels. (talk about waste of time effort and money)

You attack your own citizens and allow your own cities to be blown to bits.
By your own governement, the financial systems that the west is proud of enslave you.

They jab you with funny flu vaccines and infect drinking water with additives.

ISLAM is not trying to kill you all off (LOL - who wants to invade friggin texas and make off with the Taco Bell products, in france i suppose the muslims brotherhoods aims - bs group btw, are to make the snails less salty and remove the eiffel tower section by section and re assemble it in afghanistan )

FEAR your Oppressive governments is the moral of the story who fear monger to keep all the sheep huddled together in the corner and they feed you the grain of disillusionment. so they can do what they want to make money and foreward their own evil agendas.

Ignorant people are a necessary evil - is my lesson though

Originally posted by the_one_below
You know I really agree with just about everything you are saying here. I am a veteran of the war in Iraq and have spent a total of 15 months in the Middle East, and I can say without a doubt that Muslim are no less that determined on the extinction of not only Israel and the U.S. but all of western society. I'm glad someone finally hads the integrity to stand up and say what we have all been thinking.

Perhaps it's because I haven't been trying to subdue or kill the Muslims I know, but the ones I've had personal contact with have all been rather lovely people. I think one guy I met at work once came across as a bit of a nutter... would probably resort to the whole honour killing thing.

Many that I've spoken to are embarrassed about the extremists but do acknowledge that there's been a wave of Islamophobia and propaganda since 9/11.

As in any situation, it's only a small minority that makes trouble for everyone else. Blaming it on Islam is foolish. One might say with just as much justification that Christianity is a scourge that should be wiped off the face of the earth. I think if you added up the number of people killed in the name of Allah and in the name of Christ, the Christians would be well in the lead.

There are some remarkably stupid statements which people are quite happy to post on ATS. Here are some examples.

Originally posted by computerwiz32
I don't agree. countries shouldn't make it clear on their laws to immigrants.
Immagrants should already know the laws or at least try to learn it.
I think the country should at least show them how to find the laws on their own at least.
But I don't think it's the countries duty to do that.

It's hard to know where to start with this rambling piece of illogic. I think the author is trying to say that countries shouldn't make it too simple for immigrants to learn immigration law.

The last two sentences might be an attempt to differentiate between a moral obligation and a duty: more likely, they're oxymoronic.

I would smack anyone that comes to the U.S and tell us how we should run our country.

Spoken like a well-indoctrinated 6-year-old.

So if immagrants come to America They should speak english or try to learn at least. Not just that They should not be allowed to tell us how we should run our own country.

I know many immigrants to the UK whose standard of written and spoken English is rather higher than this poster's. Perhaps he or she should try speaking and writing English themselves in future. I know it's a bit infra dig to have a go at people's English, but comments like this beg for it.

But today's prize for stupidest comment on ATS goes to this statement:

I know Americans don't go to Iraq or pakistan and try telling telling them how to run their country.

Well you know wrong. Of course Americans go all over the world telling people how to run their countries. It's the main reason America and Americans are so deeply, deeply unpopular.

What do you think America went into Iraq for? They wanted to control the oil and restructure Iraq so American companies could get their hooks into it. Monsanto, for example, managed to get a law passed requiring Iraqi farmers to use their seeds, which have to be bought fresh every year.

And the US is currently killing a lot of people in Pakistan, mostly using remote drones. The targets include the usual roster of innocents, wedding parties seem to be a favourite. Perhaps the US doesn't want Pakistanis marrying, I don't know.

I do think we give more respect to other countries then if their people come to the U.S

The US is currently occupying two countries and trying to get into a war with a third. Name one other country on the planet in that situation.

The UK has been a multi-ethnic society for some time now. We all have to get along. There are problems, but nothing insurmountable. And as for conceding to Muslim demands, I don't think we have, particularly, or are likely to. When there was a large influx of Sikh immigrants some years ago, they wanted exemption from the laws on wearing motorcycle helmets. They didn't get it, quite properly, in my view.

Karma.....

started hundreds of years ago, slaves are imported into Europe/USA, so were decades ago "immigrant workers" (aka slaves) imported to do the jobs these "Westerners" of these Western societies were unwilling to take on and/or believe they are too good for those certain jobs, for hundreds of years the imperial colonists were ripping off the native people of their natural resources for the enrichment of Western societies therefore eventually granting partly of these abused people access to their sacred homeland....

whatever happened in the past is coming back to get you......

Originally posted by Lethil
I know many Muslims in the UK...pretty liberal cool bunch if i do say so myself...not *them* in particular they still follow islamic teachings...but they really could care less if someone of a different faith or no faith at all drink,smoke,have social sex...etc etc they really dont care,so as for this being islam will win...id rather islamic extremist's will win...because most muslims in the uk i know dont really care if its not affecting them personally...

Didn't read the entire thread but here is my view on the increase of islamic influences in our current day society.
I believe most of the "problems" we have today with the integration of muslims in our society is mostly due to the second generation being born and growing up in a free society but are still bound by the rules of their religion forced upon them by their parents.

The rules and lifestyle prescribed by the Koran probably makes perfect sence in the location it originated from.

When imigrants from these parts of the world moved to western society (be it on our own invitation aka cheap labor or refugees fleing from a politically incorrect goverment). These people were generaly seen as very nice people who didn't bother anybody.

They didn't bother anybody because they lived a very retracted lifestyle, still holding on to their believes and religion in a world that made absolutly no sence according to their teachings. Not wanting to have anything to do with our strange society they formed little groups within our society through which they could retain their identity.(i guess if you drop a bunch of europeans or americans in the middle of China it wouldn't be long before they would find each other and do the same)

But the problem began when these peoples children, who were born in western society but were raised according to the rules of a country they never saw, were expected to function in that same society without a real identity.

Imaging living in a world were you are taught, for instance, that alcohol is bad and consuming it is sin. Now imaging being an 18 year old going to school and holding on to those believes while all around you your friend are partying and doing all the things you cannot.....

Now the more stable person would reason that it is everybodies free choice to do as they please and holding on to your believes while everybody around is not, is a sign of character but.....

not every 18 year old is stable and has the ability to rationalize....

The more logically expected reaction would be that these youngsters start to develope a sence of superiority towards the "sinners", called the free western world. Now that's one h*ll of a feeding ground for any recruiter belonging to an extremist group.

I really cannot believe that being exposed to our way of live combined with a religion that teached the opposite has no effect on young people.

I believe the Amish have a ritual for people in this age group were they are send into the free world in order to find out for themselfs if the Amish way of life is something the can agree on for the rest of their lives. But they are left to do as they please without interference from the social group they came from.

The group we are talking about does not have this option and always has to account for the things they do or have done on a daily basis.

It's a tough one trying to solve this delicate problem but i have good hope for the next genertions to be progressively tolerant towards our way of life if we don't f*&k it up first with directly proportional reactions.

It is the soul reason idiots like Geert Wilders (Dutch politician) have such large numbers of supporters...

Peace

(i'm not gonna spell-check this one, so please ignore the typos)

toleration and understanding are the keys to avoiding all out conflict.
i have travelled alone through muslim countries since 1990 and i can say that the vast majority have been respectful to me and have fulfilled their obligation of hospitality. i accepted the fact that in many eyes i am an infidel.
i decided to study the koran to understand their ways and move through them in a peaceful manner without insult. i have had many conversations with nearly all levels of their society and i can say with hand on heart there is kindness and warmth in their words.
with regards to incidents i could count on one hand situations that were distasteful not only to me but to other muslims who were witnesses.
one example- when the first gulf war kicked off, i decided to pop smoke and leave. i made my way across egypt to cairo airport. i had two days to hang around before my flight reading and sunbathing. it was mid summer and i decided to enter the airport to cool off. i heard a commotion and saw a large crowd of people running towards me. quite unnerved about this i stood to attention as they approached. at the front of the crowd was a western looking individual who proceeded to run around me and hide behind me panting like he had just run a marathon. the crowd approached screaming and shouting what i could only describe as threats and insults.
i naturally raised my arms and proceeded to try and calm this crowd down.
after a number of minutes this crowd dissipated and walked away albeit noisily. once the dust settled i asked this male twenty something what the hell was going on. he informed me that he was an american christian missionary and that he was attempting to convert muslims to the true religion, christianity!
i asked him if he was crazy. the story unfolded. he had been caught in saudi arabia with a suitcase full of bibles with the sole intent of conversion, deported to jordan and made his way to egypt.
i informed him that he carried a death wish to which he replied he was prepared to die for jesus christ our lord and only saviour. i asked him why he felt it important to attemt to convert muslims when he had no business doing this. i informed him that his very presence in the airport made him a sitting duck and told him to keep his mouth shut as he was loud and opinionated to such an extend i started to become concerned for my own welfare. this guy was like a trouble magnet and i had the displeasure of him clinging to me for the next two days as we were the only westerners in the area. that was hard work . i was constantly asking him to shut up with regards to his beliefs. it got that bad i told him he could either 'shut up of f**k off'. that did the trick. the hours leading up to my departure were filled with informing this chap that he was out of order and should practice his missionary work where it was wanted. i could not get through to this guy. it was like he was running one program only and i suggested he was brainwashed. no reaction. with my flight boarding i shook his hand and wished him safe passage. i relaxed again taking stock of the last few days with a dose of humour and dread for this guy and his future welfare.
i suppose i fulfilled my obligation of keeping this christian from harm and i left it at that.
the reason i posted this event was because this thread stoked that memory. to me it is a fact that we all have to live together, all religion and faiths and non faiths. as david milliband stated on a political show this morning 'we have no intention of lifting the drawbridge on the faiths and religions in the uk.' well said. it is a touchy subject here in the uk but people must learn and understand that ignorance and hostility will result in tragic consequences for us all. there are bad eggs out there who interpret the bible/koran and other holy books for their own ends. those that live by the sword shall die by the sword. peace to all.
regards cdi