Think Doctors Know Nothing About Nutrition?

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Great thread! Star and Flag

I'm not sure if there is a conspiracy so much as just not enough education in the "western medicine" pre-med education programs. Also, I think there is a psychological component here. Doctors are only human, and thus feel better when a patient's condition improves quickly from taking prescription drugs.

Without adding more to the medical curriculum, one quick fix is to see a doctor who understands the importance of nutrition and gives you a referral (might be required by some insurance programs?) to a good nutritionist.

It's good to be aware of these things because we know the FDA approves everything and the docs rather prescribe you the quick fix, send the bill to insurance company, and see the next patient!

reply to post by Scramjet76


My doc is pretty good, cares about me as a person, but when I showed up having lost a lot of weight, he didn't even comment.

Didn't ask me about my diet or how I did it.

Puzzling. He did seem overly concerned about my cholesterol values, which turned out to be probably a lab error.

My feeling is that they just don't understand nutrition or dieting and focus instead on prescription drugs.

2 cents

reply to post by Badge01


Did you lose a lot of weight in a short time span?

If someone is really concerned they might go see an MD who also has a naturopathic medicine education.

Thanks Scram,

I don't know. It's not as much of a conspiracy as it is about big pharma making large profits. Is that a conspiracy? Maybe.

I have a problem with a doctor referring a nutritionist or dietetic. I mean, it only takes 4 years of study, which is 2 years of basics and 2 years of specifics. Most of those college courses are full of outdated and false information. From what I understand, they aren't taught Nutrient Biology, the study of how nutrients interact with the body.

I know, I know. If you can't refer someone to a professional in the given industry, who can you trust? Well, I like to trust myself. Which is why I research the subject myself, listen to many different opinions and then form my own based on my findings.

I'll give a few examples:

American Diabetes Association

Fat is basically concentrated energy. It has double the calories of carbohydrates or proteins. Too much can make your child overweight. It can also clog her blood vessels, which is bad for her heart. Fat is found in butter and margarine, oils, most meats, eggs, whole milk, chocolate, and any foods cooked in butter or oil.

Yes, 1 gram of fat is 9 calories, compared to about 3 calories for carbs and protein. But here is where this statement gets out of hand. Too much of any food can make you overweight if your caloric intake is more than your caloric expenditure.

The problem is this, this paragraph alone is enough to scare people away from fat. People don't want to be fat, so they avoid fat. People don't want heart disease, so they avoid fat and cholesterol. Dietary fat does not translate into body fat. You have to understand how and why the body stores fat and it's not by eating fat.

USDA

# Consume 3 or more ounce-equivalents of whole-grain products per day, with the rest of the recommended grains coming from enriched or whole-grain products. In general, at least half the grains should come from whole grains.
# Consume 3 cups per day of fat-free or low-fat milk or equivalent milk products.

Here is the USDA recommending a diet with lots of carbs and fat-free milk. This is a recipe for weight gain and disease. Low-fat and fat-free milk have been shown to cause weight gain in children while whole milk does not. Hmmm?

Lately, more and more studies have been published on the effects of low fat diets. Precisely, how ineffective they are.

Scientists and doctors who are at the forefront of research don't agree at all with guidelines such as the ones given by the American Diabetes Association and the USDA. In fact, it's quite the opposite.....

Stanford Diet Study

The case for low-carbohydrate diets is gaining weight. Researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine have completed the largest and longest-ever comparison of four popular diets, and the lowest-carbohydrate Atkins diet came out on top.

This was one of the most recent and best studies conducted that compares low-fat and low-carb diets. Obviously, low-carb came out on top as far as weight loss.

What really caught my eye, and many others by the way, were the cholesterol levels.......

Of the more than 300 women in the study, those randomly assigned to follow the Atkins diet for a year not only lost more weight than the other participants, but also experienced the most benefits in terms of cholesterol and blood pressure.

Why are they recommending these low fat diets to improve cholesterol? SO what you have to ask yourself is; Should I believe Medical Doctors and Nutritionists preaching old school mantras, or are you going to believe the studies conducted by reputable scientists?

It's your health, so it's ultimately your call. I just hope everyone is smart enough to not believe a doctor or nutritionist word for word......Just because of the title.....

Take responsibility for your own health.

-Dev

Originally posted by Scramjet76
reply to post by Badge01

 

Did you lose a lot of weight in a short time span?

If someone is really concerned they might go see an MD who also has a naturopathic medicine education.

Now that would be a good idea. I agree whole heartedly.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
reply to post by Badge01

 

Did you lose a lot of weight in a short time span?

By some estimates, yes, but the key was that it was dramatic, he hadn't seen me since I started the diet and yet he had no comment. Why, I don't know, but I was surprised he didn't ask me how I did it, because, afaik, doctors are always telling their patients to lose some weight, so why pass up a chance to ask someone who was obviously successful?

I attributed it to two things. One, he was not overweight himself, so he probably had little appreciation for what it takes to lose significant weight. (My rate was safe at about 1.25lbs/week) The other was that he just wasn't focused on that because to his mind he had to address the abnormal cholesterol value.

If someone is really concerned they might go see an MD who also has a naturopathic medicine education.

I wasn't concerned, just surprised. Remember the topic is Doctors and knowledge of Nutrition.

I'm not sure I know about naturopathic medicine. Are those approved by insurance programs?

Thanks for your post.

reply to post by Badge01


It depends on who your insurance provider is. I think mine does. I'm not sure though.

Usually, naturopathy involves proper nutrition to reverse an illness, sometimes with the help of herbal remedies and homeopathy. I believe most N.D.'s are very well educated in proper nutrition.

-Dev

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Ah, but there's the rub. "Proper diet" can mean a lot of things, but it usually is based on some dogma such as the current or older versions of the food pyramid.

Being an expert on dieting means having experience guiding a number of various individuals through a weight loss or a weight gain program.

Not all diets work (the same) for all people.

Further, not all diets work at all times for all people.

In order to actually educate doctors about nutrition, they'd first have to RE-educate them from all the wrong stuff they learned all their lives prior to going into med school. And if they did that, then some of the doctors might actually start telling US .. and wouldn't that be a disaster?

It is all money driven. Economics.

For example, one of the healthier oils for you is coconut oil. And it tastes good too .. remember 30 years ago or so how great movie popcorn tasted? Yep, coconut oil. But we can't grow coconuts effectively in the US, so we made coconut oil the bad guy and corn oil good.

Canola and most vegetable oils and margarine are HORRIBLE. They go rancid during the heat and pressure of processing and have to be bleached, deodorized, and dyed before you would consider eating them. Even FLIES won't eat margarine - they know it's not food. Oh and btw .. Canola oil is licensed for use as a pesticide. Put that on your morning muffin.

Milk .. by the time they get done with milk, there's not much good left in it. That's why it has to be fortified. RAW milk is good for you, but you can't have that .. it's dangerous. Why are so many people "lactose intolerant" now? Because pasteurization kills all the enzymes in milk that help it digest easier.

Soy .. it's BAD for you. It causes hormone problems due to phytoestrogens. Only fermented soy is okay, but they never tell you that. They give soy milk to babies knowing it causes early menstruation and other problems.

Most of us have been so thoroughly brainwashed since kindergarten - or since we were old enough to watch TV - about what good food and good nutrition are, we will reject the truth out of hand as ridiculous when it is first told or shown to us. For example: white sugar and bleached flour are more harmful to you than butter or even lard. How many of you are shaking your heads? See!

Processed, refined foods laden with chemicals are KILLING us, and the doctors give us drugs and more chemicals to alleviate the symptoms of the illnesses which are basically mostly due to malnutrition and poisons in our food and drink instead of telling us that what we EAT (and lack of exercise aka physical movement) is what's wrong.

Ask me some questions, challenge me! Come on, this is one of my favorite topics and I want to RANT about it some more!!

Originally posted by KontagionLook, I'm not interested in a pissing contest. America has its fair share of problems - lack of health-care for our poor, interest in capital gain rather than healing, and everything else that has bee discussed here are all major issues. My point is that it is foolish to jump from one sinking boat into another.

My guess is you've never experienced the health care system in France. Why do you think Jolie gave birth in Nice?

Socialized medicine has its problems for sure, but the US system sucks big time in comparison.

Having less money to squander on useless high tech medicine and costly drugs encourages local health care professionals to offer more practical and pragmatic treatments, like "go home, relax, take a walk, eat better". Yes it does happen.

The French doctors have no problem referring patients to qualified and certified homeopaths, chiropracters, physio's, nutritionists etc, and are legally obliged to if the patient requests it (and the govt. pays for it, as well as your time off work)

Other countries 'outside the US' also have similar systems, just the French one is a particularly good example and arguably one of the best national health care systems currently operating in the world today.

By the way, tax for national health systems is most likely on a par with, if not less than, standard US health insurance.

reply to post by Heike


Great Post. I couldn't agree with you more. I love me some coconut oil. Mmmmmm!

We could pick a debate this topic.....huh?

reply to post by Badge01

Being an expert on dieting means having experience guiding a number of various individuals through a weight loss or a weight gain program.

Thank you. Results are what count.

"Proper Nutrition" well thats the food pyramid right....



All carbs, no fat.......

Originally posted by Heike
Soy .. it's BAD for you. It causes hormone problems due to phytoestrogens. Only fermented soy is okay, but they never tell you that. They give soy milk to babies knowing it causes early menstruation and other problems.

I did some research on this a while back as we were seeking a milk replacement for my 6 month old to supplement the breast. In the end we came off the soy and went for rice milk, which he still drinks daily, but I'm still on the fence regarding soy.

I have a problem with any 'ancient' food source being labelled as harmful. I remember during my veggie years the meat eaters telling me that humans can't survive on a veggie diet which was pretty funny when half a billion Indians survived fairly well without eating flesh.

My research indicated that tens or hundreds of millions have been eating soy for centuries, so I concluded that the phyto-oestrogen argument was probably just another fad bogey food 'hoax' driven by over zealous but well meaning nutritionist types with books to sell
[how old was Atkins when he died again?]

How to improve health care globally ...? Simple really, just eliminate allopathic drugs, chemical fertilzers and pesticides, and invest a fraction of the savings into cleaning up the food and water supply.

Additionally, tax the crap out of soft drinks, fast food and fad diet products and use the windfalls to subsidize local fresh organic produce.

Problem solved. Next.

Originally posted by RogerT
I have a problem with any 'ancient' food source being labelled as harmful.

Well, I do understand your point .. but ..

Just how much soy did Asians eat? In short, not that much, and contrary to what the industry may claim soy has never been a staple in Asia. A study of the history of soy use in Asia shows that it was used by the poor during times of extreme food shortage, and only then the soybeans were carefully prepared (e.g. by lengthy fermentation) to destroy the soy toxins. Yes, the Asians understood soy alright!

Source: The History of Soy

The entire article makes for some interesting reading about soy products.

reply to post by Heike


Ah....you beat me to it.

Also, it's worth pointing out that the chinese eat a diet that is full of fat and protein and not many carbs. The only carbohydrate they eat is Rice. Think their diet has anything to do with the fact that they are the longest living people in the world????

-Dev

reply to post by Heike


Thanks for the clarification and the link, I'll take a look at that.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


I agree. Individual responsibility is never a bad thing. I think reading/researching a nutritionist in one's area to whom your doctor can write you a referral (if you need it for insurance purposes) could be a good idea.

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
1) Why aren't medical doctors given more nutritional training?

There's no money in it.

The objective of a doctor is to cut stuff out, replace if possible, and prescribe phamecutical drugs.

reply to post by Badge01


Yeah I'm sure doctors have a lot on their mind and if you were in a healthy weight range... then guess he didn't think anything of it.

I'm not sure I know about naturopathic medicine. Are those approved by insurance programs?

Yeah naturopathic isn't the same was nutritionist. But I think most people who practice that also have strong background in nutrition. The two philosphies are heavily intertwined. I think some insurance programs cover natural medicine and nutrition, but not all of them.

If you are concerned about your health I strongly suggest you learn about Codex Alimentarius, An international standards setting body who wants to make Vitamins Minerals & Herbs illegal

technorati.com...

You might also want to look at my thread on what is planned for the world food supply. It is not pretty.


www.abovetopsecret.com...'



"Suspicion is a Virtue, if in the interests of the good of the people." Patrick Henry