Endless cycle....

I was wondering whether to put this topic in the Theology or science discussions. But i decided to put it here because there is science to wat i was thinking. When we die, our body decomposed and turns into energy. AM i right?.....well if bodies turn into energy, then in fact there is a cycle between a living body and energy. Wat i am really trying to get at is that maybe we turn into energy when we die. Nothing else...jsut energy. I mean the topic of souls and so on is most certainly gonna come up, but what if we jsut turn into energy. There is nothing bad about this, no pain, no nothing. It happens everywhere in science; the transformation of matter, ie a star, into energy, gamma rays, visible light etc. WE are jsut the matter, turning into energy like that star.....

Nice idea, but then we should be able to measure mass being converted into energy when someone dies. The energy would have to be in some form, so we would also see electromagnetic radiation or heat. I don't think there has ever been a flash or a sudden heating of the body when someone died.

Actually in everyday situations, matter stays matter and energy stays energy. In extreme conditions, like a star or a particle accelerator, some matter may be converted into energy. The human body does not have the conditions needed for that.

The explosions would sorta tip you off, too.

Seriously. Converting mass into pure energy releases a lot of heat. Doing it all in a second (moment of death) should create a rather spectacular explosion.

I think we'd notice.

I've thought that our souls were energy. After all, it'd explain reincarnations and ascending and stuff like that, especially when you consider that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only alter forms/shapes.

This is an excellent theory, and I am going to look further into it. Off of the top of my head, I'd have to say you're right, to a certain extent. There are several types of energy, such as mechanical, potential, kinetic, and power. I don't think the decomposed body relates to any of these particular definitions, because all of them require some sort of action. Refer to:

www.glenbrook.k12.il.us...

However, a decomposed item will ultimately gain unity with the surface of which it is decomposing on (in this case the Earth). Therefore whatever types of energy the Earth produces at any given time would in turn be created in unity with the item's molecules.

Pretty deep stuff, man.

Mr. M

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by StarChild]

Originally posted by StarChild
However, a decomposed item will ultimately gain unity with the surface of which it is decomposing on (in this case the Earth). Therefore whatever types of energy the Earth produces at any given time would in turn be created in unity with the item's molecules.

I don't really understand what you mean with this. Care to elaborate?

Chemical breakdown? Absorbtion into plants/animals/water? But yeah, it needs clarify-ing.

Has anyone read anywhere that scientists have actually been able to "weigh" the soul?

21grams roughly is supposedly the weight loss observed at just before death,
I've also read in the Astral Dynamics workbook by Robert Bruce that this 3/4 oz of weight loss at death is basically the weight of your astral body?/soul
or something close along those lines..

hope this helps

Originally posted by amantine
Nice idea, but then we should be able to measure mass being converted into energy when someone dies. The energy would have to be in some form, so we would also see electromagnetic radiation or heat. I don't think there has ever been a flash or a sudden heating of the body when someone died.

Actually in everyday situations, matter stays matter and energy stays energy. In extreme conditions, like a star or a particle accelerator, some matter may be converted into energy. The human body does not have the conditions needed for that.

Extreme examples, maybe- spontaneous combustion; or Shroud of Turin?

Originally posted by amantine

Originally posted by StarChild
However, a decomposed item will ultimately gain unity with the surface of which it is decomposing on (in this case the Earth). Therefore whatever types of energy the Earth produces at any given time would in turn be created in unity with the item's molecules.

I don't really understand what you mean with this. Care to elaborate?

What I am getting at is that the molecular structure of a decomposing body will merge with the molecular structure of the Earth, in turn binding the two units into one entity. Therefore all actions initiated on behalf of the Earth and all things connected molecularly will be conducted in part on behalf of the person's molecules. Although this is a very miniscule contribution, it is still a contribution.

This is the only feasible way that I can see how a persons dead body turns into energy. Any other opinions?


Mr. M

Originally posted by psycosrus
21grams roughly is supposedly the weight loss observed at just before death,
I've also read in the Astral Dynamics workbook by Robert Bruce that this 3/4 oz of weight loss at death is basically the weight of your astral body?/soul
or something close along those lines..

hope this helps

Wasnt there a movie or something about that....i cant quite remember...i am pretty sure its called "21 grams"....but was i was trying to get at, as some ppl seem confused, is that the body will eventually decay. I am not trying to say that the body will explode all of the sudden and turn into energy, but through decay it will gradually transform into energy.

Energy takes different forms. I don't think they mean your body is going to blow up. But dead things do decompose and become wonderful fertilizer for plants, or get eaten by other animals and be metabolized as energy for that animal.

Of course, if that energy can be considered a "soul", think of all the chicken, cow, pig, etc. "souls" that got screwed over and are now part of people like Micheal Jackson or George Bush.

Originally posted by worshipthemoon
Energy takes different forms. I don't think they mean your body is going to blow up. But dead things do decompose and become wonderful fertilizer for plants, or get eaten by other animals and be metabolized as energy for that animal.

Of course, if that energy can be considered a "soul", think of all the chicken, cow, pig, etc. "souls" that got screwed over and are now part of people like Micheal Jackson or George Bush.

That's funny.
However, I don't think that the molecular structure of a decomposed body can be transferred into another living organism, for the simple reason that we come straight out of the womb, not the Earth.

Mr. M

Originally posted by StarChild

That's funny.

However, I don't think that the molecular structure of a decomposed body can be transferred into another living organism, for the simple reason that we come straight out of the womb, not the Earth.

Mr. M

Indirectly we do come from the Earth, which in turn is made from the elements created by the "death" of stars.

The molecular structure may not be transferred, but the elements are transferred from what we eat into our bodies, and our digestive system also transforms the components of the matter into energy that our bodies can use. So if a soul is the total sum of energy that any living object possesses, that should include the energy in the matter of an object. Of course, that would mean that all living things possess a soul. Or it could even mean inanimate objects can possess a soul. I know most people will disagree with that. A soul may also be only a part of the energy in a living being. Or it could have different aspects, like the Ba and Ka in ancient Egyptian mythology. It all depends on what a "soul" really is.

Whatever. I'm just throwing ideas around.

[Edited on 10-3-2004 by worshipthemoon]

Well, I don't think energy by itself can really form a soul. Energy is a difficult concept, but I think it's just a property of matter (and space in gravitational waves). Energy can't exist on it's own. A particle can contain energy, space can contain energy, but something made of purely of energy is a problem. It must still contain particles to carry the energy.

Energy also has the problem that it can not store information about to which particles it used to belong. It is impossible to tell by measuring the energy of a particle how the particle got the energy.

Shouldnt the there be a way to measure energy release from a body after death???....

If souls indeed do exist, isnt there a way of measuring them as they leave our body???....Or is it something that is not possible to measure???....but then again the soul has got to be something, and that something has to be measurable...am i right in logic???....

if the Soul already we know weighs 21 grams u find an equation to get the energy output released, i mean maybe its Knetic Energy, our brains are conducting this energy, i bet theres a one last Spike of the meter at death on brain wave monitoring, Kinda like enuf energy to propel the soul lol, who knows right, i mean think whereever the soul goes afterwards needs some way of prepoltion*i doubt it but who knows how that could impact science.anyway

[Edited on 10-3-2004 by Trance]

[Edited on 10-3-2004 by Trance]

The brain and nervous system work on electricity. It�s well known that electricity doesn�t degrade or disappear. Think of an electrical loop in your house. The electricity flows through the hot wire, to the device, and back to the earth via the neutral conductor. So the electricity that allows the body to function must go somewhere after you die.