Iranian President Says No War With U.S., Israel!

reply to post by poet1b

Own

Obviously I know more about the history of Islam than you do.

Capitalism and Democracy have produced far better things than religious fanatacism. You don't have Westerners making whoppingly false claims that Islam has not attacked another nation for a thousand years. It is foolish to choose to live in ignorance, and that seems to be the attitude of Islam.

Uhm obviousely you don't know much about the Islamic history and obviousely you are making false claims, for example: Which Islamic historian or even a dumb, ignorant Muslim have ever claimed that Islam has not attacked another nation?? Bring me a quote, please I am begging you. So what has Capitalism and Democracy produced which is better than Islam? They are all ideas and we all know that if more than one idea co-exists, their will always be conflict, which may or may not end up in war.

We were talking about terrorism and I gave you an example of the excessive number of prisoners in America, bad seeds, all societies have it, including Muslim.

Originally posted by earthman4
The USA is the only country on earth that has demonstrated that it should not have nulear weapons. Everyone else should be allowed to have them.

(I took your post as sarcastic considering it was a response to poet1b)

You have completely misunderstood the intentions of the non proliferation treaty. To encourage other nations to develop nuclear weapons is suicide. If every nation had nuclear weapons, this world would be a scary place. The treaty states that as holders of nuclear weapons, the five permanent members of the security council agree not to use their nuclear weapons unless attacks similarly. Thus, they would never be used – unless of course, more nations have ‘nucs’.

[edit on 17/7/08 by Thaumaturgus]

reply to post by Ownification


Numerous posts here claimed that Iran has not invaded another country for a thousand years, and I proved them wrong, and provided the proof.

Go back and read the thread, and lets see if you can demonstrate a thread of honesty by appologizing for being mistaken.

reply to post by poet1b


Just one question.

The US invading other countries for false reasons is justified how?

reply to post by mind is the universe


WOW, you continue to prove yourself to be the most foolish poster here on these forums, congrats.

Being that I am the only one on this forum to has provided a shred of evidence to back up my claims, that gives some legitimate claim to being the resident expert on Islamic history. At least I don't spout nonsense the way that you do.

Maybe you could grab the title of expert on Islam by providing the proof to your claim that "America has killed more civilians and been in more wars than any nation over the last 50 years."

Iraqi terrorists have killed more Iraq civilians than U.S. soldiers. Ever hear of Pol Pot. You really think it would be a good idea to give someone like that a nuclear weapon. This is how foolish your ideas are. Try turning on your brain.

Yeah, I guess that you would prefer that others do not notice some one beating their wife, and believe that as you claim it is none of anyones business what other countries are doing, but anyone with a shred of dignity knows better.

reply to post by Tomis_Nexis


Never claimed it was. I was against the invasion of Iraq, but Hussain being gone does make the world a better place.

I admit, the U.S. has done things that it should not. I am waiting for someone from the other side of the debate to make an honest admission such as this as well.

reply to post by poet1b



Have you ever being outside of your country.

BETTER still have you ever been outside of your country and just watch what your nation does to other's.


You should try it.

P.S The wars are engineered. I seriously could not waste a shred of time trying to prove it. Its just too obvious in this day and age, to try to prove to people like you the idiocy of the American policy and regimes over the last 50 years.

Good luck with trying to find answers.


[edit on 17-7-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Tomis_Nexis

 

Never claimed it was. I was against the invasion of Iraq, but Hussain being gone does make the world a better place.

I admit, the U.S. has done things that it should not. I am waiting for someone from the other side of the debate to make an honest admission such as this as well.

Saddam was a puppet. He was given the power by your government in the beginning. Your government setted him up, gave him all the weapons he ever needed, heck your earliar president even shook hands with him. tHey even let him live, back in the gulf era. Please realise a book has many chapters.

The question when are you going to realise the real problem, How this all started, instead of focusing on the end result. It never ends, war just keeps going its engineered and planned ways as it has been since all the other oil wars America has created and fought.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by mind is the universe

 

WOW, you continue to prove yourself to be the most foolish poster here on these forums, congrats.

Really, where was I been foolish?

Being that I am the only one on this forum to has provided a shred of evidence to back up my claims, that gives some legitimate claim to being the resident expert on Islamic history. At least I don't spout nonsense the way that you do.

Where did you get your history? Your the "only" one on this forum that knows everything. RIGHT. moving on from that lol

Maybe you could grab the title of expert on Islam by providing the proof to your claim that "America has killed more civilians and been in more wars than any nation over the last 50 years."

You need to wake up. America goes to war, for one reason only MONEY. War kills people. Not interested in the bull and side line storys that your fed by the Media over there in America. America will not waste 2 trillon on invading Iraq to look like the good guy, this is just to old and stupid now and does not even make sense too even thnk so.

You still continue to believe the T.V and your own government. Go ahead. Nobody or no nation is going to waste that kind of money to fight a war unless it has something to offer or worth fighting for. This basic logic and basic common sense you might need to understand here. They are not there to save the people of Iraq. They the elites (I should say) are there to make money. It's business to the elites, just the sad fact is your soldiers fight and die for it. The civilians also fall victim to this, and fight and die for it too.

War on terror is propaganda, why because, fighting a made up war on terror makes money. Iraq had nothing to do with the"war on terror" This is a FACT.
Yet this was the very excuse to go into Iraq. Why is it that American's are always blaming others for been a terrorist. Like everyone else is a terrorist these day's but NEVER America. Like its so redicoulous, how the American government has brainwashed its own country into absaloute terror. That people become to think like everyone else is a terrorist. The government terrorise you to fight the fears they put in you They even have lied to you blue in the face for god's sake.

Iraqi terrorists have killed more Iraq civilians than U.S. soldiers. Ever hear of Pol Pot. You really think it would be a good idea to give someone like that a nuclear weapon. This is how foolish your ideas are. Try turning on your brain.

Okay using my brain here again, would be looking at the whole picture. The picture in front of me IS, the whole problem that arised from beginning middle and end. And using your awareness. You cannot understand this perspective, as your nit picking, or watching the T.V, been fed fear by your leaders. With all this cloudyness and brainswashing. You follow up on the small details, like the terrorists is the problem, this is not the real picture or the main problem.

The terrorist or any terrorists did not get there and start killing people for no reason.

Your government trained alot of these so called terrorists and CREATED the Taliban. They give them the power to do what they like and what they are supposed to do. They Gave Osama Bin laden the weapons to fight off the Russians and other tactics. They put dictators in power in many countries. Sells arms to all these dictators. Your government does it to make money end of story.
America is directly responsible for pretty much starting alot of the conflict's in the world today and fight's in the majority, so its pretty much obvious to any one with a brain to realise which nation is responsible for this chaos and massercre, and this leads to what, peace? Give me a break. You ain't using your brain.

The countries, your Government interfered with in the beginning (the bit you don't see ) where they put dictators in. conflict starts naturally, The American elites, leaves it till it gets bad, they then goes in and "saves" the day by removing the dictator after. The dictators that they shook hands with and traded with in the beginning. So tell me whos the real terrorist. Or how this make logic or sense?

You turn on the T.V, and the wars continue, America killing the terrorists, looking like they are winning. ON and on, and on. Still winning the wars. America saves the day again. All the terrorist's are dead. We don't know who they were but their all dead, said the news. People like you, would be like we won the war against evil. Yet there is another war, America is already there.? So they've won or what??? Why do they still think their winning when there still fighting? It baffles me, how people don't see the simple basic reality in front of them.


5O years of this pattern, people like you just don't get it, America is good, and they're evil etc. America is peacful and good. Why is your nation fighting in every war then, if they are so good? Why is it Iraq? and not France or Jamica? why any war?

When did a war create peace? When did fighting your parents create peace. Why does America think they are allowed to go to wars, thats not on their soil or nothing to do with them?. Do you ever ask questions or look at your own nation's behaviour? guess not. Do you ever wonder, why America goes to wars all the time? Do you ever wonder why it all starts in the first place?


While you try to wake up and become aware. The oil is been drilled and pumped out. innocent are been killed of the war distraction, the war created by the governments so they can get the money an oil. Close to a million are dead, people are still been killed everyday. Thousands of your soldiers are fighthing for a war that they should not be dying for. War is about money. Its really simple if you use your brain. like, but hey hey. Now its Iran. Then what country next. ON and on and on.

Yeah, I guess that you would prefer that others do not notice some one beating their wife, and believe that as you claim it is none of anyones business what other countries are doing, but anyone with a shred of dignity knows better.

And what do you know Tell me? You said you can get involved and make anything your business. Are you aware how silly you come across when you mention the word dignity

[edit on 18-7-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification

 

Numerous posts here claimed that Iran has not invaded another country for a thousand years, and I proved them wrong, and provided the proof.

Go back and read the thread, and lets see if you can demonstrate a thread of honesty by appologizing for being mistaken.

OK here's your exact quote:
"Islam has not attacked another nation for a thousand years", false claim...
This is your claim, Muslims state that Islam has not attacked another nation for a thousand years, and your quote is that Iran has not invaded another country for a thousand years, aaaaaaaaaa do you see the difference or should I explain in detail now I'm not gonna defend the individuals who made the claim that Iran has not invaded any country for a thousand years, they made the claim they should defend it.

Now I'm not gonna ask you for an appology because as I said before you are ignorant of Islamic history.

Originally posted by mind is the universe
America goes to war, for one reason only MONEY... America will not waste 2 trillon on invading Iraq to look like the good guy...

America goes to war to protect their interests and their allies. Stability in the Middle East is important to America because we are dependent on oil from the region. The key word here is stability. America desires stability in the Middle East so that they can continue a peaceful relationship. What do you think the ‘terrorists’ want for the Middle East? Do you think they care what the majority of the people think? At least America wants to give the people a voice.

Americans are footing the bill for the war while Iraq maintains its oil revenues. Americans are paying for their war to bring peace.

Originally posted by mind is the universe
You still continue to believe the T.V and your own government. They are not there to save the people of Iraq.

Yes they are. I am doubtful that I will be able to convince you of this, but let me try. As stated previously, Americans are paying to bring democracy to Iraq (www.msnbc.msn.com...). Furthermore, many Americans are worried they are wasting their money. If it were the case that there was some clear cut bonus for the invasion other than stability in the Middle East, I doubt Americans would be worried so much about the cost of the war.

Originally posted by mind is the universe
Iraq had nothing to do with the"war on terror" This is a FACT... Why is it that American's are always blaming others for been a terrorist. Like everyone else is a terrorist these day's but NEVER America.

It is all about instability in the region. The ousting of Saddam caused instability. Americans are trying to fix that. America was attacked and wanted to make sure it was never attacked by terrorists again. What is wrong with standing up for yourself?

The terrorists at 9/11 had their reasons to attack, but would you say that killing American people was a good way to demonstrate their discontent? A terrorist to me is someone who targets civilians or infrastructure to get attention. The people in the Middle East who are fighting the American invasion are confused. They may want peace, but they don’t want American help. So they attack Americans and exacerbate the problem. I don’t understand why. The Americans bear gifts of freedom and free choice. Democracy is their tool. Fight the occupation through the system: through voting, through protest, through diplomacy.

You have suggested that the American people walk on the White House. Should not the Iraqi people take the same advice for their own region?

Tell me, would you rather be ruled by a minority of patriots who will likely rule by authoritarian means, or a majority opinion which is flexible and subject to your opinion?

Originally posted by mind is the universe
Your government [interferes in other nations] to make money end of story.

Americans did support dictators in the past. They did so because these dictators brought stability to the region. Now America supports democratic governments and you bash them to no end. America is fighting for the rights of other people. Obviously those people don’t want those rights. Thus, I am sure you would agree that an isolationist America would be best. Have fun fighting hunger, civil unrest, and the desires of crazy nuc wielding leaders in the region yourself.

Originally posted by mind is the universe
America is directly responsible for pretty much starting alot of the conflict's in the world today and fight’s in the majority...

Wrong. You are right, however, that America fights in the majority of the conflicts. You think this is because Americans are greedy. I think it is because Americans care about peace in the world. What do you think about the United Nations? Based on your bashing of American interference I bet you do not like them either. I am sure you understand why they exist.

Originally posted by mind is the universe
The countries, your Government interfered with in the beginning (the bit you don't see ) where they put dictators in. conflict starts naturally, The American elites, leaves it till it gets bad, they then goes in and "saves" the day by removing the dictator after. The dictators that they shook hands with and traded with in the beginning.

So just because America wants to turn things around they are the bad guy? Would you rather the dictators remain there?

Originally posted by mind is the universe
...America killing the terrorists, looking like they are winning... We don't know who they were but their all dead, said the news...

The only people who believe we are winning the war are either Bush cronies or supporters of McCain. (Personally, I am an independent).

Originally posted by mind is the universe
It baffles me, how people don't see the simple basic reality in front of them.

They see it all right. You just are ignorant of the American opinion. Maybe you should watch some of that media you hate so much.

North America is good, and peaceful, and just, and free. We fight to secure our freedoms and to bring freedom to others. We fight for peace. France will be France, try Great Britain or something instead.

Face it, war brings peace. Do you think someone in power is going to relinquish their hold over people without a fight? What about the American Revolution? What about the Glorious Revolution? What about the French Revolution? The list goes on. America goes to war to bring peace and stability, to fight for the rights and freedoms of the oppressed and all on the charity of the taxpayers.

i have to admit the entire hype of war by the politicians is very frustrating. I have had fantasy's of writing george and stephen to ask them about this 1% that seem to do what they will with the 99% of us and also ask them if the name Custer means anything to them. It is true that as citizens we can stop them, but we are a little too well fed at the present to do anything. perhaps when we are killing each other over a loaf of bread will change come. We are slowly being contitioned by familiy's in power for over a century, and i don't just mean the politicians but the large corporations that dictate to government. we have a C51 bill that the gov is trying to pass here and god help us i hope it is squashed and that is the farmacutical companies trying to gain a larger monopoly over us and a chance for real medical knowledge to be lost to BS laws like the raymond rife osolator created in the 1930's. the more land the us conquores the more oil and resources they recieve to boost their economy. its a disgustiong truth and one only needs to play civ4 to truly understand sid meirers message to us about global domination. Iran and Iraq and afghanistan are about as much of a threat to the states as canada. neither has enough military might to do much of anything and to do so would be suicidal at best. this is all a oil run folks..

reply to post by polrwolf


America is not out to take your oil! We are out to make sure that the resource is stable and that we can continue to purchase it from you. You may not have noticed, but high oil prices are not doing much for the American economy. Americans have not reaped any benefits from the war and have not “conquered” any land in the Middle East. Protest, protest, protest! Let your voice be heard!

Iran and Iraq are not weak. They have control over the oil, and Iran has a powerful ally in Russia.

In all respect, I work in the oil industry and know people in the oil industry and it was halebertan (spelling is bad) that got all the oil contracts in Iraq. lol...the reps that work in the oil patch told me point blank when i asked about the reasons for the war?..."oil"...high oil prices do nothing for the people in canada or the US but it does alot for the oil companies. how many of the current US administration are oil reps or have heavy investments in oil...just about all of them...and when was the last time a middle or low class citizen was elected into power?....none cause it takes milliions to even run a campaign...and why is it that the US is in my country so much that we may as well be another state?...because we are, mind you they won't make the announcement but we (canada) are owned by the us companies and the companies dictate to us as well as the states what we are going to do...the enviromental damage to my country is nearly irreversable...

reply to post by polrwolf


I got nothing from this post but speculation. Halliburton was given a $2.5 billion no-bid "Restore Iraqi Oil" (RIO) contract where they were assigned to rebuild the Iraq oil infrastructure and extinguish oil well fires. They mostly failed. See en.wikipedia.org...
and
www.halliburtonwatch.org...

Your post implies that Halliburton is stealing Iraq’s oil. Prove it. Shouldn’t be too hard working for the big bad oil industry and all.

Yes, our democratic system is broken. Don’t we all understand that already? It will be fixed. I am a Canadian (Albertan), and I am not owned by the United States. The United States is powerful, yes, but they rely on us for many things. The United States is a consumer nation, and a friendly one at that.

Well boss...since your in alberta this should be easy for you to understand....there are roughly half a million straws that have been put into alberta alone, about 1-3 wells per square km. each of these wells has a 50 year span before the metal and cement decay to the point where the hydro carbons start leeching into various layers of rock. you know as well as i that there are regions where people can't water there catttle or themselves because the ground water systems are contaminated from hydo carbons. the rivers south of fort mc murray are toxic to the point where the fish cannot be eaten and the native peoples in that area are developing all sorts of cancers. Further those straws in the earth are sealed with cement and are subject to cracking by the thousands of miny quakes that we don't even feel on the surface. Further to my point almost every oil company is from the states...encana, murphy to name a few. halibit may have been given contracts to restore the oil but what was wrong with the existing companies in Iraq to do the same job...funny how there was a hold up of a pipeline from europe south...trying to remember if it was through Iraq or Afghanistan but nevertheless this pipeline went through after the US and Can invasion. What i also find interesting is that the states as you say were trying to stabilize Iraqs oil but had no interest in establishing martial law to prevent the looting and distructon of of Iraqs economy and their museums etc. they didn't give a dame about anything but the oil and that was shown in a doc recently done. The states have systematicly broken down or sovernty over many years going back to the arrow project to the deal with fort mc murray. yes they have brough jobs and the like to our country but our oil goes right to them and then they bill us at world prices for which is OURS in the first place. The price of oil may have doubled in the past 5years but our wages haven't....in the winter of 2006/2007 encana cut its exploration heavily in the name of being gouged by contractors...there were 60 houses a week being confiscated by the banks in jan 07 alone. that cutback decimated the work force that they had been screaming a lack of work force to the point where a lot of people will not go back to the oil patch. the rent in fort mc murrray alone is 2500 for a one bedroom apartment per month....where am i going with this you may ask...the states own us. they pay to extract our oil and sell it back to us at rediculous prices, our hydro plants are straining to meet demand by there country but recieve no payment...etc...etc...not too long ago soon stunned brod on CNN said something like we are lucky that we(states) allow them to exist up there...In short, they tell us what to do and we do it...our lumber goes down there only to turn around and come back as their export and we pay more for it. I ain't saying the US is the devil, really they are as caniving as our own gov and I fear we would be just as greedy if given the chance. Most of the general people are just like us, trying to pay there bills and live in peace to support there families. It is the elite that i have issues with. take the EV car developed by GM for California that the bush administration squashed. That project could have saved us all from rediculous prices for a litre of oil. The science was advanced enough for 400km that could easily take the strain off the major cities. Look man i ain't trying to get into a pissing contest with u, just want to show that the states are by no means innocent...have you seen the movie 13 days where the kennedy's realized the generals wanted a war witht he soviets? and they killed the kennedys over that too...Bush and bin laden have huge shares in the carlyle group which is one of the largest weapons research and development in the world and they got a large chunk of contracts with this so called terrorist camp of Iraq and Afghanistan. there are some serious forces at work here that go way beyond us

oh by the way i never said halibut was stealing Iraq oil...they got the contracts and who is part of halibut? one of the bush administration....can't think of his name right now....been awhile since i been on this subject...there is nothing to prove cause it is all public knowledge

reply to post by polrwolf

We’re starting to get off topic now, so i’ll just reply to close off the tangent. I honestly cant say I know much about the environmental damage being caused by Albertan oil drilling. The only thing I can wonder is why there are not sufficient regulations to help prevent the kind of damage you outline.

Any sovereignty breaking American companies have done to Canada is our own fault, and honestly, I cant see how the provincial or federal government would stand for it. Buying back our own oil for higher prices is also our fault – as is the timber. After all, if we don’t want to drill for it ourselves or regulate the businesses that do it for us then that’s our problem. Fort McMurray is a boom town because of the oil and so land prices are ridiculous, it’s inevitable.

I did hear that outrageous claim by Ann Coulter (mediamatters.org...) quoted from fox and was disgusted as were the other guests. She is just a radical, nothing more.

I can’t say much about the strategy in Iraq – honestly I don’t agree with the approach. I am no strategist, however. Nonetheless, I am fairly certain that if the United States simply went in and deposed Saddam and left, the situation would be more corrupt then it is now: perhaps less violent, but more corrupt.

I try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt so that may be why I am not convinced that the government is as conniving as many think it is. I was once accused of being manipulative, and I honestly was not, but no one would believe me.

I understand the tight connection between government and big business, but I also see how easy it would be to break. The government rules with the support of the people; businesses run with money earned by the people. The only way a business can influence anything is by throwing money at it, and I don’t think they have enough money to throw to prevent a revolution.

(Edited for clarification)

[edit on 18/7/08 by Thaumaturgus]

Yah your right bro, we are a bit off topic but i am certain within 5 years that we will be in a war with Iran...its in the middle...lol...It was proven that 911 was an inside job, mind you the evidence is a little inconclusive but alex jones brought some things to light and that was the spanish american war where the states blew up their own ship and was admitted as a example in the cuban crisis right up to kennedy. a lot of the states bad stuff goes back to the families involved with the santa fe ring that was responsable for the decimation of the native americans during lincolns time in office. Lincoln didn't even know about what was going on. Those same families whenever they get into office it is the same stuff. Scary as hell. The book "bury my heart at wounded knee" was one hard eye opener but it helped me to understand how long it has been going on. Iraq knew there was not one chance to win a war against the states and way i figure it i would not want to fight anyone when the outcome would be defeat. that was shown in desert storm that Iraq had no chance against the states. what i find interesting is that i remember the news cast of the iraqy soldiers were taking babies from incubators and leaving them on tables. that so called common girl was the ambassadors daughter and the whole thing was propoganda. Iraq people, iran, just about anywhere are people just like us, some want war, others just want to live in peace and raise there families. I am pretty certain that Iran has no real capability to wage war and after the lack of WMD found in Iraq, I am very skeptical of the bush administration accusations. Mind you someone did say on this web site that WMD were found in Iraq so I would have to review that before i can say for sure. My grandfather was born in red oak Iowa and we migrated to red deer alberta. I live in Bc. I think Iran doesn't really have the capability to do much against anyone but there own neighbors. What bothers me is the states quest to bring down these oppressive regiems but there are countries where people are staving and living under great oppression that we are allways sending aid to....why don't they invade and overthrow the powers like burma, or southern americas with teh coc aine trade etc...they have no weapons of mass distruction but then they rule by threat of death...I've never understood it except as one man said "they have no resources to exploit". If and when the states invade Iran, I am certain that that will be the real beginning of world war three...I hope i am wrong