California: Save your home, go to jail.

reply to post by TKainZero
Thanks for adding that "[/sarcasm]" tag, I was about to see red there...

You are absolutely right that these so called 'environmentalists' have absolutely no idea how nature works, or even what nature is. I love nature (as evidenced by that pic I hope ), but it is not some fawn sipping a drink of cool water from a babbling brook. More often it is some poor defenseless fawn gulping dirty water from a muddy puddle while anxiously listening for that predator to try and sneak up so they can eat it.

I see this all the time: people move out here expecting to wake up to soft sounds of nature in the morning so they can idly play under shade trees the rest of the comfortable day. Then they realize that the sounds of nature include owls hoo-ing outside your window at 1 AM, tree frogs imitating thunder, or the sounds of a coyote trashing your trash in the middle of the night. those shade trees don't drop the temperature, and the weather tends to get muggy with all the bodies of water nearby. 'Coons aren't sweet little curious creatures, they are vicious omnivores who will do anything to get at your food, and those sweet deer are renowned for eating the gardens. They learn that the nearest store is 5 miles away, and only has overpriced necessities and soft drinks. The nearest town is more like 15 miles away, down rough roads that don't get repaired because so few people live out here. There is no 30-minute pizza delivery, and cable TV is a small dish sitting in your back yard. That back yard grows like wildfire (heh, had to get back on topic somehow. ) during the summer and takes a bit longer to mow than their townhouse lawn did. Also, the people who live here tend to have little patience for enviro-wackos. In the end, they usually leave with their tail between their legs, hopefully with a newfound realization of what nature really is.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


i dont know how they do things in cali but i hole hartedly agree that there should be more eduication on this matter. it would provide much needed support to the already over worked firemen.

Im impressed that so many feel that this guys actions were some heroic stand etc.

I could care less if he is was a firefighter. He is "reported" to have experience. Does that make him an expert on starting, managing, or containing a back burn? All by himself. I for one want to see a bit more about his experience etc. before we can rush to judgement about his expertise. if this guy was such an expert he should have / would have bugged out eh? I went to the fire acadamy a long long time ago and I know what involved and know that the right thing to do was leave. You can spin up all kinds of emotional yarns about him defending his house etc etc etc but the bottom line is protperty CAN be replaced, people cannot.

If the fire got out of hand how exactly was he going to contain it? How many crews would have been put at risk to bail this moron out if his back fires got out of hand? having to fight yet another fire or adding to that which is already there.

So by this logic if a neighbor feels his house is threatened he can do as he pleases regardless of public safety and the like?

I realize that many of you are trying to spin this into the Ruby Ridge / constitutional rights issue but the simple fact remains this guy got lucky and could have put alot of people AT risk for his foolhardy actions.

reply to post by FredT
No, not Ruby Ridge. Just a matter of justice over legalism.

If someone in my family is hurt and needs to see a doctor ASAP, what do I do? I can call for an ambulance/EMT (which can take from 10 to 30 minutes to arrive, 10 more to get to the hospital), or I can drive them myself. Now if I am going to drive them myself, that means that I have already determined they are in serious need of emergency care. I promise you, I will be speeding and running every red light/stop sign in my way.

Those actions are illegal. Should I lose my license, and perhaps serve time, for doing this? No. I am trying to save a life. Now, if I drive beyond my ability and run over someone, does that mean I shouldn't be held responsible? Again, no. I took the risk. I pay the price should I fail.

There are times in life when one must take responsibility for oneself. In my example, our legal system says I am guilty of a crime when I speed through town, regardless of whether or not I cause any damage. Our system of justice allows the cop who sees me to hear me scream 'Hospital!" out my window as he tries to pull me over, and to use his lights to escort me to the hospital rather than arrest me. Our system of justice allows a judge to determine that I was acting under an emergency, and the standards of the law should be suspended in this case.

So I would assume that you favor a system of legality rather than a system of justice? If so, we will simply have to disagree. I trust no one implicently with my life, the lives of my family and friends, and my property, least of all a governmental body.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by DaleGribble
now you are gonna have idiots whit no knowlege of how to do this going around saving homes and killing people. that is the only problem i have with this story..

I have to agree with this. Hopefully, no one else will try this.
There are homeowners in large fires who stay with their homes to water it down. I think it was especially after the huge fire in Santa Barbara years ago, that homeowners became more fire control aware, such as putting in pumps to pump swimming pool water to use to douse their house and property.

California has always been prone to wildfires. Over the decades, however, large tracks of homes have spread out into rural areas and over hills; homes have gone up in canyons. Technically, due to scant rainfall, much of California can be classified as desert. To reclaim the land from desert, water comes hundreds of miles away into cities. Combine this with the Santa Ana hot, dry winds (60mph is not unheard of) and you get what happened last Fall in the San Diego area. The perfect firestorm.

Strong winds push wildfires too fast up hillsides, devouring homes along the way. Winds push embers too far, turning palm trees and pine trees into torches. There are regulations for weed control and burning, but you can't knock down every piece of dry grass, etc. all over. Sometimes all one can do is pray.

I think it's a natural reaction to do anything to preserve one's home. People will use garden hoses and try to stomp out fires. As was pointed out, however, a house fire is different than a wildfire around a house.

Firefighters have to not only control fires but also homeowners who want to, for example, go into a burning house to rescue some object. When entire neighborhoods or areas are in danger, it is often the case that evacuations are mandatory, to keep people from blocking roads, using water which lessens water line pressure making it even harder for firefighters, etc. We like to think of Calif as all roads, but sometimes there is only one road into an area.

Growing up in the 50' and 60's, I can remember when lightening-caused forest fires were immediately put out. I think this was not all due to environmentalists. We have to remember that the National Forest Service is under the United State Department of Agriculture. Sure, it would not be good to see bunnies burn, but neither would it be good to lose thousands of acres of timber. Salvage logging after a fire is not as good as logging in an unburned area. Fire management has come a long way to help forests burn carefully, so all stakeholders benefit.

I can remember when the National Guard was used for firefighting. They would be called out to provide support and their heavy equipment. Sadly, however, this time they must make up for shortfalls in the number of firefighters themselves. (That is why, hello!, the Guard should not be used as regular troops! Dumbass idea.) Now I hear that Washington needs to call back the Guard they sent, to fight in their own state.

I hope readers of this thread take to heart Redneck's advice and learn fire safety.

reply to post by FredT


fred i rarely agree with you on things(mostly because made my one and only point deduction) because im hard headed and stuborn.

i can say im with you on this. what the man did i have mixed emptions about. 10,000 dollars is a stiff fine until you take in the fact of what could have happened if things had gone wrong. luckly they didnt.

but right and wrong are just words. its what you do that counts...

A few years ago in the deepest part of winter, I had just said the good night story for the last time and tucked my children in bed.

Walking out to the living room I see the ceiling above my wood stove on fire.

1.Grab phone call 911 give address and drop phone while shouting out to family.
2. Grab blankets and children and run them 3 at a time out back door to van, while shouting out to husband to grab water!
3.Place kids in car seats and cell phone Parents and grands to come get children.
4. Start heaving buckets of water on ceiling while shouting for husband to go get the hose and start on the roof from outside.
5. Grabbing important things and heaving out the front door, bedroom windows.
6. Run out to check on kids and act calm for them, and say grandmas on her way.
7.Heave more buckets to ceiling.
8. Wave as firefighters first responders arrive.
9.Put on my shoes from the freezing frozen ground outside had cut them unknown to me.

Point is, you do what comes naturally to you. I did not run around like a mad woman, there was a center which I followed.

It happened so unexpectedly, so fast. I could not have done anything differently for me.

I now know that had we just gotten out and let it burn, we would have a beautiful new home instead of the ongoing 'project' we fought so hard to save.


Edit for spell check, celieng...

[edit on 12-7-2008 by antar]

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem -occam's razor

Acts of obedience are not perfect, and therefore yield not perfect peace -Oliver Cromwell

necessitas non habet legem

Don't speak to the man at the wheel, he's fighting fire with fire at the moment

Sri Oracle, sovereign

reply to post by DaleGribble


" 10,000 dollars is a stiff fine until you take in the fact of what could have happened if things had gone wrong. luckly they didnt. "


So, you support the THOUGHT POLICE?!?!.......

Being FINED because something "could have gone wrong" WTF !!!!......

I COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE

A fine should be incurred in the event something DID go WRONG, not because it could have.

What's next, I get pulled over and given a ticket, because I MIGHT speed?

A man's entitled to defend his property. Did homesteaders get a firefighters license to burn backfires to defend their homes?

what a croc...that fine is a croc, and it shows how screwed up we really are as a country to allow injustice like that and call it justice!!!........

Who is going to FINE God for the original fires?!?!

Originally posted by toasted
reply to post by DaleGribble

 

" 10,000 dollars is a stiff fine until you take in the fact of what could have happened if things had gone wrong. luckly they didnt. "


So, you support the THOUGHT POLICE?!?!.

...

...

Being FINED because something "could have gone wrong" WTF !!!!..

..

..

I COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE

A fine should be incurred in the event something DID go WRONG, not because it could have.

im gonna state the obvious real quick. bear with me..

the fine is put in place to deter people from makeing such choices, just in case something does go wrong.

if you read my posts. i feel the man is a hero. sadly no good deed goes unpunished.

however the man broke the law. weither what he did was right or wrong. i feel its a 50/50 mix. he still broke the law.

had he simply thought about saving the house no one would have fined him.

it is my opinion that you are takeing this out of proportion...

reply to post by antar


sorry to hear about your home. you did the right thing, and the right thing to do didnt envolve breaking the law.


you have every right to put a fire out in your home if you are not endangering others in the process..

reply to post by DaleGribble


" the fine is put in place to deter people from making such choices, just in case something does go wrong. "

I'm quite familiar with the creatively worded EXCUSES that THE WHORES use, to extract money from folks, and to bully people in the process, all in the name of "helping"...or "protecting" us. .....I call it BULL!!!!!

a freaking croc.

their excuses are weak and if I were the guy who was fined, I'd find a way to suit them.


" however the man broke the law. weither what he did was right or wrong. i feel its a 50/50 mix. he still broke the law"

WHAT!?!?! Are you saying, the "law" can't be WRONG?!?!

This is where the real power of the JURY comes in, to not only judge the case but JUDGE THE LAW!!!

DaleGribble, don't let them money stealing evil whores buffalo you here....they are OUT OF LINE...and you know it too.

reply to post by toasted


well then maybe the people of cali should challange the law.

no doubt the country has some stupid laws. however when it comes to this particular situation, i have mixed feelings.

on one side im thinking from the side of a prescribed fire manager, who has had to fight back fires that got out of control

on the other side im trying to think, what if it were my house.

i hope im never in the position to have to make that choice. plain and simple. i dont want to have to make that call.