The Panama Deception-Testing of Beam weapons during the panama invasion ?

I was doing some background reading on the joint Israeli/US particle beam weaponry project when I came across the 1992 documentary “The Panama Deception”, Whilst I’m not surprised by the revalations in this film, it still shocks and saddens me. At 1 point (during pt 4)
A witness speaks of “beam weaponry” being used and cars being "sliced in half"

I wonder if anybody has come across
These claims before and what they may have herd about advanced weapons testing during the Illegal invasion of Panama ? also have the mass graves (mostly civilians) on US bases ever been investigated ?

If the claims in this film are true then it’s another human tragedy instigated by elements of the US government and swept under the moral rug by the corporate media.

I hate to think what weapons are currently being "tested "in iraq if they were using beam weapons in Panama 18 or so years ago ?

Bush-Same name,same old story !

Here are the YT links


The panama deception pt 1

pt 2

pt 3
pt 4
pt 5

pt 6
pt 7
pt 8
pt 9

I was actually in Panama a couple of months ago. It wouldn't suprise me. Panama City is still largely in ruins. I would love to watch the documentary because I don't actually even know why there was military action in that country.

Maybe something to do with them stopping drugs getting through at the canal (just a guess) but I really don't know much.

Thanks for the interesting thread though.

reply to post by amanbuthimself


Hi amanbuthimself,

Wow that would have been interesting,I can only Imagine what it must be like, How did you find the people ?

It must be 1 of the most devastating untold war crimes commited against inocent civillians ever.

I reckon this film must be a textbook classic as to how the US plays out their foriegn policy behind the scenes, They turned a blind eye to Manuel Noriega's drug running whilst they funded his govt to their advantage, Then when things swung against them they went in and decimated the place, IMHO what they did was committ war crimes. All for the sake of controlling the canal. They scamed their way out of the Carter initiated treatys to pull US bases out by 2001 and grossly under reported the amount of civilian deaths- With some reports of mass graves under US bases-I have not found conformation of this though.

If you have not seen this Acadamy award winning Documentary You
must see how things really went down in Panama ! As for the whole Drugs business isn't the same thing now happening in Afganaistan, with hugely incresed poppy production ? Is that how the Taliban fund themselves ?
or rather it's probably a tidy little money earner for CIA operations ?

It's a mixed up world !

It's interesting how the vice president of Panama said at the beginning that it was all for democracy, freedom and liberation, and that he didn't mind what the cost or how many people died for that goal.

Sounds just like the bull# imperialist excuses given for the Iraq war.

Isn't it funny how Noriega 'got away' just like Bin Laden.

Surprise, surprise, Noriega is said to be hired by the CIA, just like Bin Laden and other figures in the recent terrorism wars. US is a bit of a one trick pony isn't it? They keep using the same strategy over and over again.

[edit on 10-7-2008 by basil_brush]

I don't have much reason to doubt that the US could have deployed tactical aircraft or even mobile lasers in Panama given what i have read about mobile generators and the general state of the technology in the 80's. As for slicing buildings and tanks in half i have serious doubts but it's pretty damn hard to investigate these claims in the first place.

Some DIA artwork and short descriptions...

www.dia.mil...

One effect of the panic was the strengthening of U.S. satellites against
radiation that in the end would help shield them from ground-based laser
attacks. According to U.S. intelligence sources, who asked not to be named,
such attacks damaged super-sophisticated American spy satellites deployed to
monitor missile and spacecraft launches at the major Russian space center.

In 1976, a KH-11 or Code 1010 satellite was "painted" by a Soviet laser
and sustained "permanent damage," according to a senior Air Force official.
This source said that such paintings continued into the late 1980s.

Air Force officials told UPI that for years the Soviets had a
"battle-ready" ground-based laser at Saryshagan that they said they believed
had been involved in past blindings of U.S. spacecraft.

But the result of the "hosings" of U.S. equipment was positive. The United
States moved quickly to install laser warning receivers on its newest
generation of low-orbit spacecraft, U.S. intelligence sources said. The
receivers have allowed time for evasive action and have assisted ground
controllers seeking to prove the Soviets had inflicted the damage.

One State Dept. analyst said that the whole Star Wars system of the Reagan
presidency was the result of Soviets "messing around with our satellites."

www.g2mil.com...

To power the laser system the satellite received two turbine generators, and the laser gun itself was placed in the fairing moved to the fuselage. This fairing was located between the trailing edge of the wing and the fin.

Since late 1960s, the Soviet Union was working on development of ground laser systems for anti-satellite defense and pumping from nuclear explosions. Unlike the Roentgen laser of Teller, such lasers were reusable. One of such lasers was probably built near Dushanbe. In different periods Yu. Babaev and Yu. Ablekov supervised the work on such laser, but due to the unilateral moratorium announced by the USSR, and the followed mysterious deaths of both engineers the work on such lasers was suspended in the mid-1980s.

In 1994-1995, The High Temperatures Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences sold the Pamir-3U mobile electric generator to the United States. The Pamir-3U had an output of 15 megawatt, dimensions of 2.5 x 2.65 x 10 meters, and weighed about 20 tons. The generator could be used in Russia (USSR) on the ground or in outer space for power supply to long-range laser and super high frequency weapon systems.

The Soviet Union also worked on designing of an "orbital fortress" based on a space station of the Mir type. Modules of the aiming system served as the side blocks of the station. The side blocks were attached to the basic module. The blocks were to be delivered to the station in cargo compartments of the Buran shuttle orbiter. The station was intended for killing of warheads of ballistic missiles from outer space when the crew was on board.

www.fas.org...

Weighing just 300 grams and around 15 centimeters long, Stream looks more like a pocket flashlight than a crowd-control weapon. In fact, it looks so ordinary that, at first glance, one would think it was just one of those laser pointers you can easily find down at Sennaya Ploshchad.

But Stream's country of origin should perhaps not come as a surprise. A July 1996 U.S. intelligence report, entitled Worldwide Laser Capabilities - obtained by Human Rights Watch under the Freedom of Information Act - even stated that "Russia leads the world in the development of laser blinding weapons."

With previous laser weapons, it was found that there was no middle ground between causing blindness or death with a laser at full power, and having almost no effect when the laser was weak.

Mikhailin said that one Stream laser could cost from $100 to $1,000 or more, depending on the power required.

www.sptimes.ru...

So if you can stun someone with 300 grams worth of laser/battery technology today i have very little reason to disregard DIA art of the 80's or general tactical employment in the 80's.

Stellar



[edit on 10-7-2008 by StellarX]

Just like in the Iraq war, the media showed us video of happy people celebrating liberation, when in fact the majority of people were opposed to US invasion and eventually came to say that the US rule was much worse than Noriega and that they hated the US presence. Familiar story, eh?

Just like with Bin Laden, the US spent years afterwards slandering Noriega and making him out as the most evil person, to the point of making him "a mythical figure".

[edit on 10-7-2008 by basil_brush]

Some follow up information regarding Panama

An Analysis of the Dec. 20, 1989
U.S. Invasion in Historical Context Here
contains gems such as [

QUESTION FROM REPORTER: "Was it really worth it to send people to their death for this? To get Noriega?"

and

* "Fourteen years after a formal ban on U.S. assassinations of foreign officials, the Bush administration is now redefining its language to permit clandestine operations even if they threaten the lives of foreign figures...Officials concede that it would significantly expand the types of military operations the administration can launch against foreign targets such as terrorists, drug lords or Panamanian strongman Manuel A. Noriega." --LAT, 10/14/89, "U.S. OKs Covert Operations That May Kill Foreigners"

and

The U.S.. media again performed a masterful job of being the unofficial official news organ for the U.S. government and its policies. No matter how illegal, barbaric, arrogant, irrational, or psychotic the policies, they are reported with enthusiasm, almost gleefully, and with little or no critical commentary. The media was excellent in serving the official public relations function for the invasion. The U.S. government provided the information and controlled virtually all images in order to marshal public, Congressional, and local media support for the invasion.

ad

The lack of critical assessment by the U.S. media was extraordinary, though certainly not unusual.. The fact that a military force invaded a sovereign nation in violation of every legal principle and moral standard, killing, injuring and detaining thousands of Panamanian citizens, should catalyze an outrage with headlines such as "U.S. Murders and Maims Thousands," or "U.S. Barbarism Reigns," or "U.S. Invasion Violates International Law,"

worth a read if you have seen PD and want some follow up, also here is what MSM said about Panama Deception

Boston Herald (Paul Sherman)

Seattle Post-Intelligencer (William Arnold)

San Antonio Express-News (Bob Polunsky)
* * * "More powerful than an Oliver Stone film." "[D]igs deep into American politics to uncover dirty deals." "Dramatic newsreel shots show how the 1989 U.S. invasion of Panama shocked the world and defeated an innocent populace." "The film doesn't mince words. It makes a strong statement in a compelling style. The end result is downright scary."]

A review of the film that gives a better idea about this documentary, I probably should have posted it first.... Duhhh ....but im stilling learning theTao around here.


THE ACCUSATIONS PILE UP AS `PANAMA DECEPTION' GOES AFTER GEORGE BUSH
By William Arnold P-I Film Critic
Thursday, August 20, 1992
Section: Entertainment, Page: C6
It's probably safe to say that few films have caused George Bush more personal misery than Barbara Trent's 1988 documentary, ``Cover Up: Behind the Iran Contra Affair" - which first publicly voiced the charges that he conspired with the Iranians to delay the release of the Tehran hostages so Jimmy Carter would not win re-election in 1980.

And to prove the man can't seem to buy himself a break in this election year, Trent has followed up with a controversial new Bush-bashing documentary called ``The Panama Deception." It makes the president look even more shallow, petty - and criminal - than he does in ``Cover Up."

``The Panama Deception," which moves into the Neptune today for a one-week run, is more than just a denunciation of the 1989 invasion of Panama. It is an unblinking charge that the Bush administration engaged in a vicious, calculated campaign of atrocities and war crimes there.

The film, narrated by Elizabeth Montgomery, begins with a historical overview of the relationship between the United States and Panama, chronicling how we engineered the 1903 break-off of Panama from Colombia when it refused to give us its isthmus for a canal, then supported a series of puppets in the new nation until the 1977 Carter-Torrijos treaty handed the canal over to Panama.

The film charges that President Torrijos, who was killed in a plane crash, actually was assassinated by the CIA to bring to power its puppet (and Bush's associate when he headed the CIA), Manuel Noriega. But Noriega did not like being a stooge and when he broke with Bush out of an odd sense of machismo, the administration painted him as a ``mythic" bad guy and provoked a confrontation.

While it acknowledges that Noriega may have been involved in the drug business, the film claims he was not especially good at it and was mostly framed (and his successors, our new puppets, are probably even more involved!). The invasion to oust him was never so much about drugs as it was a vain act of presidential machismo - a conscious attempt to erase Bush's ``wimp factor."

Moreover, it was carried out with a brutal disregard for human life that was obscured from the U.S. public. The movie estimates that more than 4,000 people, mostly civilians, were killed in the exercise, many of them women, children and political liberals who were murdered and buried in mass graves that have only recently been uncovered.

The charges - which go on and on - are so harrowing that it seems almost inconceivable in its totality. As in any piece of political propaganda, you have to realize you are at the mercy of a filmmaker who is manipulating a parade of facts, witnesses and atrocity photos to make a one-sided case.

But no matter how much you accept or reject, the film leaves you with the unmistakable feeling that much went on in the Panama affair that did not make it to the talking heads of Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw.

And the film's final argument - that the United States has become the passive victim of increasingly government-controlled news media that failed to do their job in either Panama or the Persian Gulf - is persuasive and chilling.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Thanks whomever you may be.

I didn't get to talk to many people if I'm honest. I was only there for a day. So what can I say about the personal experience with my taxi driver. He was a genuine and honest guy.

We paid him for a taxi ride to the Canal (and we stayed a good length of time) and then he offerred to take us to a few other interesting places for nothing extra.

If I'm being honest, we both knew that he was lucky to have a job, a car and a home WITH a roof!

He explained to us that the government is corrupt (although he did not say whether it was internally or externally corrupt).

He took us over some of the bases the US forces had and the housing areas. It really brings me to my knees knowing that in all likelihood there are mass graves. He didn't speak of it but why should he have done? (I didn't know anything so I couldn't really let out that I wanted to have some inside info).

The people I saw, some had jobs and sadly (if I'm being honest) it was mainly the black people who didn't have jobs. This might be due to racism or simply colour preference on behalf of western tourism.

It's good to know that you're educated too. Technology doesn't change greed at all. The rulers are no more civillised than those who ran the Opium wars. I could expand on that but it isn't the time or place. There is a bit more to 9/11 and Afghanistan than just 'wanting Opium', testing weapons, making money, having a great military recruitment tool and establishing a military presence in the middle east (but that is basically it).



[edit on 12-7-2008 by amanbuthimself]

A friend of my step mother had met a man, he had to of been in his late 40's / early 50's (5-6 years ago) and he once talked about beam weapons being used in vietnam.

1 man held the weapon, while another carried the battery pack. kind of like a sniper team. they were just testing it out and he said that you couldnt see the beam. there was a valley about 1 mile spread, they fired the weapon cutting off the tops of trees and etched marks into the other side of the valley (cliff)

thats pretty much all the detail he went into, he wasnt crazy and he is quite wealthy. he also said he had seen much more, although that is one of the few things he was allowed to talk about. haha i guess they forgot to add "this never happened" to the debreifing.

reply to post by amanbuthimself


Of course, how could I forget the pipeline!

Originally posted by amanbuthimself
I was actually in Panama a couple of months ago. It wouldn't suprise me. Panama City is still largely in ruins.

Huh? I was there a few years ago and didn't see any ruins.

The number of civilian deaths is hardly a secret - just not widely publicised in the US.

As for Noriega 'getting away,' he's currently doing 40 years in a Flordia prison -

en.wikipedia.org...

These beam weapons seem to be mythical. It's easy to quote 'this guy in a bar said' stories, but without anything to back it up, it's just more pixie dust. Look at the lack of progress in laser wqeapons in the last 20 years and the billions poured into the ABL (...still not working, years behind schedule) and you'll see what I mean. Solid state lasers are coming along nicely at last, but they're a long way from cutting cars in half yet.

[edit on 15-7-2008 by Wembley]

reply to post by Wembley


Sorry bro. I meant Colon!

I had a confusing holiday

Originally posted by Wembley
Huh? I was there a few years ago and didn't see any ruins.

The number of civilian deaths is hardly a secret - just not widely publicised in the US.

Quite true and i wouldn't expect to still see much ruins even if some buildings may carry some 'battle damage'.

As for Noriega 'getting away,' he's currently doing 40 years in a Flordia prison -

en.wikipedia.org...

Because he was starting to do things the CIA were not telling him to do; basically he was turning into a nationalist and that's something US puppets gets killed for quite often.

These beam weapons seem to be mythical.

By earlier post notwithstanding?

It's easy to quote 'this guy in a bar said' stories, but without anything to back it up, it's just more pixie dust.

Sources notwithstanding? Any chance you will look at the additional 30 odd i can offer?

Look at the lack of progress in laser wqeapons in the last 20 years and the billions poured into the ABL (...still not working, years behind schedule) and you'll see what I mean.

What lack of progress? They were working in 1975 or earlier and if anything SOME modern enhancements may not work. I do however think that the ABL and other programs are kept in this state of perpetual failure on purpose so as to best hide the fact that it's i use both in space&earth by a number of countries.

Solid state lasers are coming along nicely at last, but they're a long way from cutting cars in half yet.

Based on what i mean? Why do you think SSL's are still that useless?

Stellar

Sources notwithstanding? Any chance you will look at the additional 30 odd i can offer?

Sure. But the ones above do not indicate high power lasers.

THe anti-satellite weapons are simply used to blind, and the Russian Potok (Stream) is just a lower-powered laser dazzler.

I do however think that the ABL and other programs are kept in this state of perpetual failure on purpose so as to best hide the fact that it's i use both in space&earth by a number of countries.

That's pure conspiracy theory, unless you have anything to back it up. There are a lot of people working on those programs, I really can't see them deliberately failing badly on such a scale and wasting billions. ((There is a lot of competition for that money!)

Based on what i mean? Why do you think SSL's are still that useless?

I didn't say they were useless: I think they're already a lot more useful than chemical lasers. But they certainly can't cut cars in half, and I don't think anyone will bother developing one that can. It wouldn't have a lot of miltiary utility compared to, say, an effective pulse laser.

Originally posted by Wembley
Sure. But the ones above do not indicate high power lasers.

So what would constitute a high powered laser in your opinion? Would mobile power generators in the 15 MW range not be built with such in mind? Why would we believe that there have been basically no progress in the military applications since the 70's?

Manned seven crew. Deployed ERBS; performed high resolution Earth imagery. Payloads: Earth Radiation Budget Satellite (ERBS) deployment, Office of Space and Terrestrial Applications (OSTA)-3 experiments, Large Format Camera (LFC). First use of Orbital Refueling System (ORS) with extravehicular activity (EVA) astronauts, IMAX camera. In response to the American Strategic Defence Initiative and continued military use of the shuttle, the Soviet Union fired a 'warning shot' from the Terra-3 laser complex at Sary Shagan. The facility tracked Challenger with a low power laser on 10 October 1984. This caused malfunctions to on-board equipment and discomfort / temporary blinding of the crew, leading to a US diplomatic protest.

www.astronautix.com...

So discomfort, malfunctions and blinding at space shuttle altitude in 1984 from a ground based station and yet cars are safe today? What do you think the space shuttle is made off to be so easily affected by 'low powered' directed energy weapons? Why believe the O-ring story when we KNOW the Russians had orbital facilities and lasers sufficiently powerful to cause malfunctions on shuttles back in 1984? Do you want a Pentagon press briefing to acknowledge it or could you consider such possibilities without someone holding your hand?

THe anti-satellite weapons are simply used to blind,

Lol... You mised the comments about the permanent damage? You realise that such was achieved back in the mid 70's?

and the Russian Potok (Stream) is just a lower-powered laser dazzler.

Depending on power levels; please study the sources you are commenting on.

That's pure conspiracy theory, unless you have anything to back it up.

Sure, the Russians OPERATIONALLY DEPLOYED similar aircraft with lasers long before the US ever did. I can understand that you may choose to believe that US engineers and scientist are working with less resources, or are less skilled/knowledgable, but it makes more sense to me that the public programs have been undermined while the military deployed them decades ago.

There are a lot of people working on those programs,

Right and the fact that billions of dollars have been poured into Fusion research without much result must obviously mean that our sun doesn't really use a fusion process? So much for the logical approach.

I really can't see them deliberately failing badly on such a scale and wasting billions. ((There is a lot of competition for that money!)

They are spending 300 billion dollars on the JSF, spent 70 billion on the F-22 are spending tens of billions each month in Iraq; need i continue? Do you REALLY believe that our governments are above wasting money, that isn['t theirs to start with, when it suits their interests? Why do you even presume that the money is being 'wasted' when the results achieved may in fact just be hidden from public view?

BI didn't say they were useless: I think they're already a lot more useful than chemical lasers.

Why? SSL's are far more compact...

But they certainly can't cut cars in half, and I don't think anyone will bother developing one that can.

So after 40 years and tens of billions of dollars you are basically suggesting that lasers still can't do any miltarily usefull damage? Why do you hold this view in the first place?

It wouldn't have a lot of miltiary utility compared to, say, an effective pulse laser.

Hydrogen Fluoride Laser. The hydrogen fluoride laser operates much like a rocket engine. In the laser cavity, atomic fluorine reacts with molecular hydrogen to produce excited hydrogen fluorine molecules. The resulting laser produces several simultaneous wavelengths in the range of 2.7 microns and 2.9 microns. The laser beam, at these wavelengths, is mostly absorbed by the earth's atmosphere and can only be used above the earth's atmosphere.47 This laser is the leading contender for the Space-Based Laser (SBL) program.

The Ballistic Missile Defense Organization continues to support the hydrogen fluoride laser for space-based defenses.48 The Alpha program, originally funded by Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) in the 1980s, then the Strategic Defense Initiative Office (SDIO), and now BMDO, has successfully demonstrated a megawatt power laser in a low-pressure, simulated space environment.49 The design is compatible with a space environment, is directly scalable to the size required for a space-based laser, and produces the power and beam quality specified in the SDIO plan in 1984.50 This laser has been integrated with optical systems from the Large Advanced Mirror Program, described later, and has been test fired at the TRW San Juan Capistrano test facility in California.

The Mid-Infrared Advanced Chemical Laser (MIRACL), built by TRW Inc., is a deuterium fluoride laser that is capable of power in excess of one megawatt.53 The system was first operational in 1980 and since then has accumulated over 3,600 seconds of lasing time.54 This laser system has been integrated with a system called the SEALITE Beam Director, which is a large pointing telescope for high-energy lasers, and in 1996 successfully shot down a rocket at the U.S. Army's High-Energy Laser Systems Test Facility at the White Sands Missile Range.55

www.au.af.mil...

And according to all the sources i can find the USSR spent more and were for most of the cold war ten or more years ahead in research and deployment.

So please don't bother me with the nonsense that cars can not be destroyed when missiles are.

Stellar

[edit on 20-7-2008 by StellarX]

[edit on 21-7-2008 by StellarX]

reply to post by StellarX



Was just about to chime in with the 1984 event where the shuttle was powered down and the crew stunned and blinded by the Soviet ground based laser system..

But you just did a top class job! awesome post.

My boss was in the Army as an Airborne during the Panama "invasion". He tells me that it was never an invasion, the U.S. already controlled Panama and it's operative Noriega. How convenient is it that the President at the time that was outspoken for the rights of the Panamanian people, all of a sudden gets killed. Then Noriega succeeds. I have seen the Panama deception video and yes they do mention that during this time they were definitely testing weapons of some sort. My boss confirms that this documentary is very accurate to the things that he saw in Panama. He says that the only thing he did not witness was those "beam" weapons, but everything else stated in the documentary fits in to what he lived in Panama.