Something has changed, timeline?

reply to post by HarmonicSynchronicity


Well that's certainly worth a detailed reply, but does that help determine what theory about time-slippage is more correct or accurate? I don't think so!

I guess the perspective is, that if you consider 'objective reality' to be that with can be agreeably and consistently described, with words and communication, that's not always accurate enough (so to speak). Which seems pretty obvious, since reality is more complex, in my experience, than any finite description. Meaning you can talk and explain an experience pretty much forever, and a listener still wouldn't understand it exactly, like they'd actually experienced it. If you insist upon viewing the 'map' of description as equivalent to the 'territory' of reality, of course reality is going to fold up all ambiguous-like to fit within that viewpoint. So no worries about secrets.

To say, then: if these alternate time experiences (history shifting) are really alternatives that were there all along, and only what's embraced as 'objective' has shifted, why does it seem to people that there's been some kind of sudden change?


Edit: hmm, I though "wouldn't", but typed "would". darn keyboard!


[edit on 26-8-2008 by Ian McLean]

reply to post by HarmonicSynchronicity


I must say I was amazed by what you wrote above. I am really curious as to how you came to this theory? I understood most of what you wrote but not all of it. I will read this several times and hope to understand it fully.

However, when you say "Spiritually opposite agendas" I would go so far as saying that the agendas are Morally opposit. Different Objectives on either side of the moral spectrum.

Also when you talk about secret societies, you say that there is a reason for them being secretive that may not be immediately apparent. I would like to know what you mean by that exactly. It interests me to find out more about the motives and objectives of these societies in your view.

Anyway. Wonderful post! Thanks for making my head hurt! (starred your post!)

This guy thought I was Euclid posting as someone else. Also he thinks that none of us share the same reality. He is a big red pill theorist who basically denies my existence because there are "bots" in this world. yeah we all live in a big mmorpg where only a hand full of us are real and everyone else is AI. Hormonic just go back to wearing your tin foil hat and watching Sliders reruns and the Matrix Trilogy. I'm sorry that life is boring but your idea that some people don't exist is utterly ridiculous. Mass pain and suffering is NOT for cinematic atmosphere mass pain and suffering is mass pain and suffering. I'm sorry that your red pill book of Matrix Mechanics states that most people are fake except for you, Keanu Reeves, and Billy Mays. However your theory has been composed of playing MMORPGS, reading cheap sci-fi books, as well as watching Sliders and UPN aired sci-fi shows.

Originally posted by Aron1138
This guy thought I was Euclid posting as someone else. Also he thinks that none of us share the same reality. He is a big red pill theorist who basically denies my existence because there are "bots" in this world. yeah we all live in a big mmorpg where only a hand full of us are real and everyone else is AI. Hormonic just go back to wearing your tin foil hat and watching Sliders reruns and the Matrix Trilogy. I'm sorry that life is boring but your idea that some people don't exist is utterly ridiculous. Mass pain and suffering is NOT for cinematic atmosphere mass pain and suffering is mass pain and suffering. I'm sorry that your red pill book of Matrix Mechanics states that most people are fake except for you, Keanu Reeves, and Billy Mays. However your theory has been composed of playing MMORPGS, reading cheap sci-fi books, as well as watching Sliders and UPN aired sci-fi shows.

OMG, are they at it again Aron? I couldn't have said it better my self. I have them on Ignore since they can literally blather to the 8000 character limit and not say any thing even remotely interesting or that makes sense.

-Euclid

Aaron, euclid, while I respect that you guys have every right to your own points of view, I think you're straying off topic. I'm a little disturbed by your personally belittling statements -- I think they distract from actual topics of discussion more relevant: the theories and particulars of these reported 'time-shifts'. Please, insult the theories all you want, with objective reasoning (and please, if you choose to respond, explain with more than "see my previous posts"), but since myself and several others have found Harmonic's posts insightful and relevant, I don't think you have reason to criticize at such a level.

Let's not shut down theorizing: no one on this thread has remained within the bounds of conventional thinking; let's encourage that. Thanks.

Originally posted by Ian McLean
reply to post by HarmonicSynchronicity

 

To say, then: if these alternate time experiences (history shifting) are really alternative that were there all along, and only what's embraced as 'objective' has shifted, why does it seem to people that there's been some kind of sudden change?

Because we are all knitted together like a huge tapestry and the component characteristics of each of our subjective realities are like dominoes. If a witch doctor in South Africa shows proof to a western scientists that faith healing that involves focused meditation from a members of a village can cure incurable diseases, the dominoes start to fall and like a butterfly effect, rampage through the reality components of everyone and everything that transitively connects to that event (but in efficient and less than obvious ways).

The important characteristic of the "shifts" is subjective cohesion, not anything necessarily objective (other than the illusion of objectivity). The Internet is accelerating this process. The hold on traditional means of faith control (religion, media, direct governance, etc..) is weakening. The knit-work is growing tighter. The contradiction pruning mechanisms are working harder. We should expect to experience and hear about others experiencing more and more extreme and surprising changes related to the way they believed reality worked and/or what they believed had occurred.

Something has changed, i can feel it.

reply to post by HarmonicSynchronicity


Now that is an interesting observation.

I've thought long and hard about the implication from 20th century quantum mechanics, that the observer is an active participant in the determination of events.

Without such an observation, the exponential explosion, late 20th century, of inter-communication of 'observers', sharing experience, would be irrelevant to the actual events themselves (in primary cause).

HOWEVER, what if reality is 'fitting' around the possible 'observation paths' that we choose to present to it? The 'shifts' could be explained as a breakdown in compensation threshold of such a system. In fact, the fact that the breakdowns, as observed, have been (while noticeable) of such a manner as to present no positive non-disputable proof (which could lead to a 'cascade' effect), present further support for the consistency of this theory.

I suppose there is a proportion that could be measured: as the denominator, the number of events a person experiences that could be discretely described, connecting to other events. As the numerator, those events that are multiply observed, and communicated between multiple individuals, in an observable fashion.

That proportion has been increasing, and I think it would be naive to discard any theorizing of subtle effects thereof, even in light of the unknown nature of underlaying quantum reality.

reply to post by Lebowski achiever


I believe HarmonicSynchronicity was implying that a secret society can, with enough people, create their own reality secretly even if that reality would be against the morals of greater society.

There's two viewpoints here. One is that there are multiple worlds with multiple (possibly linked) versions of "you" and the other is that there is just one you and your own world that is loosely shared with others.

In my studies I've attributed pretty much most para (not) normal phenomena as the periodic intersection of different worlds (MWI). Things ranging from the Bermuda triangle, ghosts, bigfoot, UFOs, lochness monster, etc could theoretically be something happening in a different world that we are just able to glimpse at for short periods of times.

But this doesn't explain everything to me. It doesn't explain the examples in which a subconsciousness thought can change reality. This one has always eluded me. If enough people believe in God, does God exist? If someone believes that a family member died but is still "present" as a ghost does it exist? If more and more people begin to worry about 2012 will something happen?

Obsidience

EDIT: I need to add that when I first saw the movie the Matrix in the theaters that I almost walked out because I was writing a book at that time about the possibility that we are actually immortal people from the future "reliving" the past through computer simulations just for the excitement of it. I don't necessarily believe in this, but I do think about it. I sometimes think that if its true then there must be some keyword that you can say to quit if it gets ugly. Who knows?

[edit on 27-8-2008 by obsidience]

Originally posted by obsidience
reply to post by Lebowski achiever

 

I believe HarmonicSynchronicity was implying that a secret society can, with enough people, create their own reality secretly even if that reality would be against the morals of greater society.

Morality aside, yes, that is what I was getting at. This is the answer to your question, Lebowski. As an aside, I don't really think that too many people are required. You can do this all by yourself, if you like. But there is power in numbers; profound power.

There's two viewpoints here. One is that there are multiple worlds with multiple (possibly linked) versions of "you" and the other is that there is just one you and your own world that is loosely shared with others.

There is only one version of "you", with your own reality that is loosely shared with others.

I like that statement. There could be more than one version of you, but it isn't required.

But this (MWI) doesn't explain everything to me. It doesn't explain the examples in which a subconsciousness thought can change reality. This one has always eluded me.

Such events can ruin a person's day. Since it's very subjective (after all, it is your subconscious thought), it is pretty much impossible to convince anyone else that it happened. Since it's impossible to objectify, it's free game.

If enough people believe in God, does God exist?

Depends on the god, I suppose.

There are contradictions which cannot be willed or deluded into existence. I can't get together with twenty other people and decide to make the statue of liberty into the marshmellow man, because it is too firmly established as a stone statue within the minds of everyone else. If you think of all of this as a glorified computer simulation, the act of attempting to will the program that controls the simulation into something other than it is is likely not going to happen either (would be a bit like shaking your wii controller and having a baseball bat come crashing out of the television screen). Somewhere in here is the answer to your question.

If someone believes that a family member died but is still "present" as a ghost does it exist?

If they believe it, then for them, it clearly does.

If more and more people begin to worry about 2012 will something happen?

Worry?

Or have faith in the fact that something will?

I need to add that when I first saw the movie the Matrix in the theaters that I almost walked out because I was writing a book at that time about the possibility that we are actually immortal people from the future "reliving" the past through computer simulations just for the excitement of it.

Almost exactly the conjecture made by the simulation argument.

I don't necessarily believe in this, but I do think about it. I sometimes think that if its true then there must be some keyword that you can say to quit if it gets ugly. Who knows?

That was the keyword. Consider yourself in temporary purgatory. ;-)

I have been a long time reader on ATS, but was always WAY too intimidated to join (this site is massive!). Anyway, this thread sealed the deal and finally got me to make an account as I have two very distinct experiences with the topic at hand. I clearly am no expert, and I can't explain exactly why these things have happened ( as in: is it a false memory or could it actually be something like a disruption in our timeline, my timeline...I don't know.)

About 5 years ago when I was still in the Marine Corps, I came home on Christmas to visit my family. I had stopped at the mall to do some last minute shopping (I'm a guy, what can I say) and I ran into a very dear friend of mine. We chatted for a bit and she informed me that her dad had passed away and his service was in a few days. As long as I have known this friend, her father was always very ill, so this was sad but not unexpected.

Unfortunately his service was too late in the week and I had to return to base, as my leave was over. I talked with my friend's mother and sisters, sent my condolences, and that was that.

4 years later, I was home again visiting family when I ran into an old work colleague (a mutual colleague of me and my friend who's father died). We were at a local pharmacy which was across the street from a funeral home, which oddly enough, he was just visiting because my friend's father had just died and they were holding the viewing. This is the same friend I had talked to 4 years ago at the mall. When I saw her later, she had no recollection of our last meeting, nor did her sisters or mother, who I also vividly remember talking to.

I also seem to have recently just found out Jim Jones died in the mass suicide at Jonestown... scratch that... I have just recently become aware that their was a mass suicide at Jonestown. To me previous knowledge, Jim Jones has been serving as a cabinet member or aid to the last 4 presidents...

Again, not sure if these are false memories or something else, but they feel very real to me.

reply to post by RipRocket


That's absolutely amazing.

Especially the Jim Jones part!

-Euclid

Originally posted by Evasius
I got this exact feeling here in Sydney late Saturday night, and it persisted throughout much of Sunday. Sunday night following this 'shift' I got the worst headache I've had in probably 3 months.

It's hard to describe what it felt like exactly, but I think the OP got it right when describing it as a change in the timeline. I encountered a large number of synchronicities all within a short period of time, coupled with a very strange awareness.

Things mentally just felt like they were falling into place. When things like this happen, you can't just log onto a news website and hear about what's going on with the rest of the population mentally. I actually stopped by here a few times to check and see if anyone else was feeling this, I was relieved to come here and see this thread today.

It's a very long story about all the things that seemed to just fall in place. Anyway, I'd been putting together a video about time, and when all of this started happening I thought I'd better hurry up and get it done. I uploaded it this morning (well before I saw this thread posted). I never can quite get vids to embed, so here's my link:

Observing the Timewave: www.youtube.com...



[edit on 7/7/08 by Evasius]

I'm not sure if you've participated in my thread over in the General Conspiracy forum, but it has to do with exactly this entire topic.

Sept of '08 -- Just Listen

I too have been getting "dizzy, light headed spells every so often, as well as an insane amount of "strange coincidences".

We are in currently one of the deepest/sharpest slides into novelty in years -- one which we will never climb back out from...

reply to post by MystikMushroom


MystikMushroom, please let your thread die. Every now and then it pops up in the recent threads list and I can't resist the urge to click on it. When I do - I'm reminded about how utterly useless a line-graph that maps to JonBenet Ramsey's death is. I just don't get it and I don't want to reply to that thread in hopes I prevent more suffering.

HTH do you map a line graph to something as obscure as that? Almost every one second a person dies, why is she so important?

Thank you,

Obsidience

reply to post by HarmonicSynchronicity


Harmonic,

A few questions...

Can you please describe a key event that led up to your heightened awareness of reality?

What makes you think that this world is not real? Perhaps some beings can and do implant themselves into lateral realities and/or time lines for the experience. I can think of many points in our history I'd love to visit.

If NPCs exist, what would say their percentages are for you?

How is your experience any different than the standard "God" experience?

You mentioned exiting the matrix. When you left did you feel you were in there for your own reasons or were you coerced?

Best regards,

Obsidience

Originally posted by obsidience
reply to post by HarmonicSynchronicity

 

Harmonic,

A few questions...

Can you please describe a key event that led up to your heightened awareness of reality?

Having other senses awaken is not for everyone. It may drive you mad, it may drive you to drink, to chemicals or any number of other self destructive behaviors. Perceiving this world in ways that radically oppose your indoctrination and programming is difficult. The path is different for everyone. It's very personal. Expect to feel very small and very humble, terrified, confused and , ...

If you make it through to the other side of the awakening with your wit intact, you will only be at the very beginning of the voyage.

It sounds like you want me to give you some clue as to how to start. I can't really do that. I mentioned in an earlier post that I was "woken up". Maybe I could have done it on my own and perhaps in some ways I did. But if I were to draw an analogy, it would be of waving a strong, bad smell in front of a blind person and the blind person simply refusing to acknowledge that it existed. It took a lot of smelling salt to finally get me to pay attention.

What makes you think that this world is not real?

This world is real. But it is also a construct. When you say "not real", what do you mean?

Perhaps some beings can and do implant themselves into lateral realities and/or time lines for the experience. I can think of many points in our history I'd love to visit.

I have never tried to argue for or against that possibility. I see no reason why it couldn't be going on, all the time, in someone's reality.

If NPCs exist, what would say their percentages are for you?

Depends on the day. There have been times where I would say 100%. Most of the time, I would put it closer to 90%. Meeting another true participant is usually quite obvious to me now (as opposed to actors who know they are acting - which is what occurs if you get too close to NPCs).

How is your experience any different than the standard "God" experience?

What is the standard "God" experience?

You mentioned exiting the matrix. When you left did you feel you were in there for your own reasons or were you coerced?

This is a difficult topic, because I am fully aware that it sounds insane to most everyone who reads this. For those who are skeptical, please read the simulation argument. Just read it. This will loosen your cynicism and allow you to open up to some possibilities. The truth of the situation is way more far out than anything postulated in the simulation argument papers, but it is along the same lines.

Yes, on two occasions I left this construct and went home. After returning from there (the word 'there' is simply not adequate, btw), I found myself wondering about that very question as it relates to me being here. I remember understanding what I was doing here while there, but couldn't quite bring it all back with me. But it is one of the more profound questions that lingered. I never once even considered the "being there" to be a question. That was home.

I'm sorry if this is confusing. Really, language fails to describe these things. It's like trying to write Shakespeare using eukaryote pheromones.

Alright forgive me for being an ass in the past I will try to open up to your theories. Alot of times I will just be thinking about something or start to think about something and that something appears. examples:

1. I start to think about my dog and before I can even call it it comes downstairs.

2. I often know what specific people are going to say before they even start talking.

3. I am often compelled strongly NOT to drive or when driving I do something I can't control. (back in July I turned in front of a car at a stop sign, but it was not me doing it. after I turned in front of the car it simply vanished.)

I'm sorry that I've been an ass Harmonic. It's just that it's hard for someone to just jump on the band wagon and say that our existence is a lie. For now I will try to find evidence of this phenomenon in more detail. However if all roads lead to dead ends and if in fact THIS IS a simulation. Well an "I told you so" is in order on your part.

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Aron1138]

Originally posted by Aron1138
I'm sorry that I've been an ass Harmonic. It's just that it's hard for someone to just jump on the band wagon and say that our existence is a lie. For now I will try to find evidence of this phenomenon in more detail. However if all roads lead to dead ends and if in fact THIS IS a simulation. Well an "I told you so" is in order on your part.
[edit on 30-8-2008 by Aron1138]

It's good to be open minded and skeptical. Your reality is yours. However you believe things to be, truly believe deep within yourself, where your comfort zone lies, that is certain to be exactly how reality works for you. If you are intent on "hacking reality" and discovering what lies beyond your comfort zone, then welcome.

The rabbit hole is deep beyond words.

reply to post by RipRocket


Grief, coupled with a 4-year period, can really screw with peoples' memories. As long as a mundane explanation suffices, it's folly to start attributing it to time-lines and such. Occam's Razor, etc.

reply to post by dave420

Always wise to be rational, but the trend on this thread is testimony that some of these 'memory shifts' are common between multiple individuals.

So, to not 'multiply entities', two theories: 1) memories are not an individual phenomena, somehow what one person remembers influences/determines what another remembers (mass psychology/deception?); 2) individuality is somewhat of an illusion (connected individuals 'reality shifting' in sync?).

Hmm, I think this one would have Occam scratching his head -- I wonder if he had a corollary -- entities should not be divided or factored beyond necessity.